How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

[he-man]

1Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Alford, contrary to Scripture, which everywhere represents man's state, whether saved or lost, after death irreversible. Nor is any mention made of the conversion of the spirits in prison.

By the spirit (His Spirit) in prison (in Hades or Sheol, awaiting the judgment, 2Pet 2:4), which were of old disobedient when," &c.
The Greek participle expresses the reason of His preaching, "inasmuch as they were sometime disobedient"

Also, not his Spirit, but His body, went to Hades. His Spirit was commended by him at death to His Father, and was thereupon "in Paradise."
Prison is always used in a bad sense in Scripture.

"the Spirit of the Lord God hath sent me to proclaim the opening of the prison to them that are bound"). the first result of which was the raising of his body (1Pet 3:21, end) from the prison of the grave and his body from Hades; so the same Spirit enabled Noah, amidst reproach and trials, to preach to the disobedient spirits fast bound in wrath.

This refutes Alford's idea of a second day of grace having been given in Hades. Noah's days are selected, as the ark and the destroying flood answer respectively to "baptism" and the coming destruction of unbelievers by fire.
A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments.

εν ω και τοιϲ εν φυλακη πναϲιν πορευθειϲ εκηρυξεν
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached by the spirit in prison;
απιθηϲαϲιν ποτε οτε απεξεδεχετο την του θυ μακροθυμιαν εν ημεραιϲ νωε καταϲκευαζομενηϲ κιβωτου ειϲ την ολιγοι τουτ εϲτιν οκτω ψυχαι διεϲωθηϲα δι (ϋδατοϲ &#9516 omitted
20 that were disobedient once when the patience of God waited in the days of Noah, while an ark was made, in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved by.

*Note: the word "water" is omitted in the manuscripts.

 

[coraline]

"the Spirit of the Lord God hath sent me to proclaim the opening of the prison to them that are bound"). the first result of which was the raising of his body (1Pet 3:21, end) from the prison of the grave and his body from Hades; so the same Spirit enabled Noah, amidst reproach and trials, to preach to the disobedient spirits fast bound in wrath.

No. You contradict Jesus' words & Isaiah's.

Luke 4:18 GW GOD'S WORD Translation
"The Spirit of the Lord is with me. He has anointed me to tell the Good News to the poor. He has sent me to announce forgiveness to the prisoners of sin and the restoring of sight to the blind, to forgive those who have been shattered by sin,

Isaiah 61:1

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

You see, he-man, the reason why Peter is even mentioning the days of Noah's flood is bc another Judgment was at hand. And those who are alive , & reject salvation- would not be in the Book of Life.
Those wh0, 40 years earlier, (the dead) who were preached to by Jesus, would be in the Book of Life. They were ignorant of the Spirit at the time bc Jesus had yet not come.
Those who rejected Jesus EVEN when Messiah had appeared in the world- well those wicked ones would die in their sins- & their names would not be written in the Book of Life.

 

[coraline]

Jesus, by the Spirit went into Hades & preached salvation to those who formerly lived only in the flesh & drowned in the Flood.


1Pet 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

continuous to 1Pet4: Therefore, since Christ suffered for us[a] in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime[b] in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Serving for God’s Glory

7 But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.

 

[Anto9us]

I was not making a point of Christ preaching to the spirits in priosn - there are a million of threads concerning whether the dead have consciousness -- please do not let me add to one of those "the wages of sin is death" thread.

My original point was to point out that Peter viewed EIGHT SOULS as saved after the flood -- but I have changed my mind about trying to say the flood was universal and global.
The Psalm 104 thinhg was a farce, but the whole thing about the flood was a distraction to a question I was trying to ask

WHICH WAS ACTUALLY ON THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD

I am aware of "flood accounts" in non-biblical accounts, Sumerian and Akkadian, where "Noah" was Atrahasis, Utnapishtim, Xisthustros, and Ziusudra.

FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS TOPIC - WE WILL SET ASIDE whether Noah's flood was actually world-wide

and I will re-phrase my question TO THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT

ALL

OF Matthew 24 has already happened...

we will assume that Noah's flood was "Mesopotamia-wide" and not global for this purpose -- I will just ask again - what do the "already happened crowd" think was a WORSE TRIBULATION to the "non-global-but-still very destructive flood" that happened earlier

or

the persecution of Hitler that happened later

and if people still squawk "Local to Jerusalem! Local to Jerusalem!"

I again point out that Bar Kokhba revolt in 132-135 AD resulted in a more widespread destruction of Jerusalem

so -- if Jesus was talking about a great tribulation that occurred in or about 70 AD and the stars "figuratively" fell to earth -- was Jesus EXAGERATING

or do you honestly hold that the 70 AD destruction was worse than anything before or since "since the world began" no nor never since?

 

[coraline]

Again, the Bar Kochbah revolt is irrelevant to the "end of the age." In AD70 with the destruction of the Jewish temple, God's theocratic relationship with Israel was forever terminated. God's new people are not based on ethnic identification. (Neither Jew nor Greek, etc)
And the Holocaust is not in the Bible either.

Matthew 23:35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Yes, Jesus was using hyperbolic language borrowed from the OT in Matthew 24 about "the greatest tribulation ever" & " the symbols of the "sun, moon & stars" in prophecy.

 

[Serpentslayer]

All that is to be fulfilled is the manifestation of Satan as the beast of the bottomless pitt to martyr the true Apostolic Church.

We are seeing these events unfold and the chest pieces are all in play to witness the second coming off the king of this world Satan pretending to be Messiah to be believed by all the world that had pleasure in unrighteousnes worshipping him as the mother of all living idols the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

[coraline]

All that is to be fulfilled is the manifestation of Satan as the beast of the bottomless pitt to martyr the true Apostolic Church.

We are seeing these events unfold and the chest pieces are all in play to witness the second coming off the king of this world Satan pretending to be Messiah to be believed by all the world that had pleasure in unrighteousnes worshipping him as the mother of all living idols the abomination that maketh desolate.

Satan is no longer the God of this world. He (or it) is in the Lake of Fire.

You're living in the past. Satan has no power over us today.

Thank you Lord!

 

[Anto9us]

The Bar Kokhba revolt IS relevant to this discussion - because it is something that belongs to the "nor ever shall be" portion of this verse - no where did Jesus ever say "nor ever shall be UNTIL SOME JEWISH AGE ENDED" or "nor ever shall be til 70 AD"

But there is no use to talk to you, coraline, I just want OTHER PEOPLE to look at the hoops jumped through by the

"it's all already happened crowd"

It is taken LITERALLY that the Temple was torn down and not one stone left on another

Mat 24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

It is conveniently taken FIGURATIVELY that

Mat 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


It is taken locally and not really literally that "all of the tribes OF THE EARTH" mourned - the TRIBES are forced to be the tribes of the LAND - the tribes of Israel - when we know good and well that many more "tribes" existed at that time and in that area than just the 12 tribes of Israel

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall

all the tribes of the earth mourn,

and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


What tribes SAW THAT in 70 A.D.?

Oh, I forgot -- it's "all figurative" when you need it to be.


And it is explained away that "great tribulation" such as never was nor ever will be again only applies locally and TEMPORALLY to that time in 70 AD - DESPITE Jesus' own words about "since the world began" and "no, nor, ever will be"

Mat 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And this happened also:

Mat 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did that happen in 70 A.D.? Where was the Elect gathered? What happened to them?

There are so many things that have to have the "splain-away" sprayed on them if EVERYTHING IN MATTHEW 24 has already happened

As far as the Flood -- as much as I have read about scholars saying "it wasn't global" - as much as I have read about PARALLEL flood stories from other cultures

I would urge CF members to read carefully through Genesis 6-10 and note how many times there are phrases like "I will make an end to all flesh", in 6:17 "...and everything that is in the earth shall die"; 7:19 "and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered."; 8:3 "after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated" - couple verses later "were the tops of the mountains seen".

Ark had already come to rest on the mountains of Ararat. I do not know of any "single MT ARARAT" Bible doesn't say that -

also doesn't say Noah looked out and saw any tops of mountains - the Psalm 104 article guy made that up -

and his verse about never again will cover th eearth -- well DUH! Psalm 104 written just a tad after Noah's flood - the verse references that, not disputes it!

"...neither shall ALL FLESH be cut off any more by the waters of a flood"! Gen 9:11

How much flesh?

How many souls did Peter say were saved in the flood? EIGHT.

Not "Eight in Mesopotamia, and thousands and millions more elsewhere
because the legend of Noah and the Ark was just a local thunderstorm"

1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is,

eight souls

were saved by water.

2Pe 2:5
And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;


Enoch is called the 7th from Adam in Jude, so Methusaleh would be the 8th, Lamech the 9th and Noah the 10th -- so Peter is NOT talking about Noah being the 8th person from Adam - but again - the eighth person saved through the flood -- one of the 8 souls in 1 Peter 3:20
　
Genesis 9:19 indicates that the earth was re-populated through Noah's 3 sons. Flat out.

I don't know how much more

"whole world"

we can get about Noah's flood

But if people aren't gonna believe it - they're not gonna believe it.

SCOFFERS were prophesied to come also in the last days -

SCOFFERS SPECIFICALLY said to be "willingly ignorant" about Noah's Flood

Scoffers specifically said to be saying

WHERE IS THE PROMISE OF HIS COMING?


Sound familiar?

 

[Anto9us]

2Pe 3:3
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2Pe 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2Pe 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2Pe 3:6
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

 

[Serpentslayer]

No beloved in Christ, the Abomination that Maketh desolate, who is the beast of the bottomless Pitt AKA Satan and Apolyon is prophesied to manifest and be worshipped by whom?

ALL THE WOLRLD.

What represents ALL THE WORLD?

When the gospel as Jesus said will be preached to all corners of the world then The end will come.

That is why God says that he will give them a STRONG DELUSION to believe the lie.

What is the Grand Old Lie concerning the QUESTION OF WORSHIP?

That Satan is believed to be the earthly Messiah by ALL THE WORLD, not only one pocket somewhere in the Middle East in the time of the 1st Century when the gospel hadn't yet come out.

You see the thing is, the world had to have been preached the truth of the gospel and believed in the truth of the gospel, only to fall for that lie. During the first Century most Gentiles were unbelievers beloved, so it is nonsense to make the statement that the 1st Century world at large were ALL BELIEVERS in context to the STRONG DELUSION that implies a falling away from the TRUE WORSHIP in Christ to another, and who might that be?

Satan

The STRONG DELUSION where ALL THE WORLD will worship Satan is not for the UNBELIEVERS but for the BELIEVERS for that is the context of the GREAT FALLING AWAY, called APOSTASY meaning to severe a marriage, by divorcing your husband and to accepting another man, in this case Satan in place of Christ.

The false church will accept Satan as her husband, when the STRONG DELUSION works its way to render half of Jerusalem (Apostolic Church) captive to Satan at his second earthly coming.

Zechariah 14:2
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem (Apostolic seven hilled city) to battle; and the city (Today's church) shall be taken, and the houses (House of prayer) rifled, and the women (Body of believers the church) ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity (these will worship Satan and fall for the second coming STRONG DELUSION), and the residue of the people (Born Again Christians) shall not be cut off from the city (Apostolic Church).

Satan will be incarnated in the flesh and believed by ALL THE WORLD in the grand old lie of the EARTHLY SECOND COMING.

To say that ALL THE WORLD will believe him is in context to exchanging the true worship with what?

The false worship in believing that Satan as the Messiah. Why do you think the first beast earthly Israel has been healed in 1948 and the second beast who gives life to this beast who is lamb like but speaks like a dragon is none other than Christian (lamb) Zionism (Dragon).

In context of ALL THE WORLD believing him is therefore to the once BELIEVING WORLD who fall for that lie that is part and parcel of the STRONG DELUSION.

This could not have happened in the first century because most of the Gentile world were unbelievers.

But now most of the world are believing in a Jesus that has been preached in all the world and therefore the verse in Matthew alludes to the END OF TIME, where it coincides to THE END OF THE GREAT HARVEST OF GOD where it signals the END OF TIME when the true Messiah comes as a brilliant light by sounding the trumpet of God, the seventh trumpet and declares what beloved?

That there should be TIME (tick tock) NO LONGER.

This signals the end of the time based earthly realm as we know where literally the old heavens and the old earth has passed away and what comes into view is the Ark of the Covenant the Eternal timeless Heavenly New Jerusalem with all the angelic hosts as the white cloud that accompanies Christ within the ark of safety (correlates to Noah's ark).

So what was the sanctuary for Noah and his family on the earthly realm, the New Jerusalem becomes the heavenly realm sanctuary for all the resurrected saints from the time, time and half a time opening of the fifth seal, right up to the seventh trumpet sounded by Christ signalling the end of the great harvest and the end of the world. Jesus did say the world will end at the end of the great harvest.

Now coming back to the STRONG DELUSION.

Any manifested earthly Messiah is the counterfeit artist the Devil pretending to take the place of Christ on earth, for this was his ultimate dream as quoted in Isaiah 14:13.

Basically the true Messiah cannot manifest himself on earth because that would ultimately bypass his very own BLOOD ATONEMENT on the cross at Calvary and the Holy Ghost as the sanctifier and resurrector.

So we must all walk the plank called death to face the first judgement and take part in the resurrection of the dead in order to come into the presence of Christ, for this is what is described in all of the epistles as the APPEAR-ING of The Lord which implies to the imminent audience of that message (1st century church) that it is a present tense participle of the VERB APPEAR to be, when the thief (death) comes in a day and hour we know not to destroy (kill) our earthly house (body) as Jesus explained then the day of The Lord will come for that individual when their earthly house is dissolved.

That is why Saint Paul would say: my departure is at hand and there is already in store for a heavenly house awaiting me, that I will be clothed by.

So where in scripture does it say that the TRUE WORSHIP will be replaced by what is obviously a false worship, remembering that the BLOOD ATONEMENT that is our daily sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins must never be removed nor must the Holy Seal who is God the Holy Spirit be removed who is the sanctifier and resurrector.

Below verse in Daniel states that the BLOOD ATONEMENT will be removed at the symbolic 1290 days.

Daniel 12:11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

We know that the two symbolic witnesses of John's revelation are in conjunction to the Great Commission prerogative to preach the gospel to the ends of the world until they finish their testimony within the unmeasured Gentile court of the world at large and then the beast of the bottomless Pitt, AKA Satan will take them out of the way. These two symbolic witnesses prophesy, which means preach the gospel of Jesus Christ for the 1260 symbolic days. The commission f the two symbolic witnesses is part and parcel of the church age up until today.

Notice Satan before he reveals himself as the Abomination that Maketh desolate removes the true worshippers by perpetrating a world wide Calvary as described by the bodies of the two symbolic witness that symbolizes all of the Christian world. Satan uses his workmen to martyr the true church and just like what sadist Saddam used to do, Satan's workmen will parade their bodies in the streets across all the cities of the world that are spiritually described as Sodom (meaning lawless) and Egypt (meaning idolatry).

Then Satan is ushered into the world by the second coming doctrine after he who witholdeth that is the true Holy Spirit Church has been removed out of his way so that he stands unopposed for ALL THE WORLD to worship him as the earthly Messiah.

2 Thessalonians 2:5-7
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

So doing away of the BLOOD ATONEMENT and the TRUE BODY OF CHRIST will be the two things that must happen before the mother of all idols AKA Satan reveals himself to be worship by ALL THE WORLD.

So read what I have testified carefully a number of times in order to discern that all these things could not have happened in the 1st Century to the 1st Century Church because if that was to happen it would have implied that the gospel has been fully preached and the end of the great harvest and the end of the literal world, should have come as Jesus declared and we today would not be Christians today, if the two symbolic witnesses were taken out in the first century and the blood atonement of Christ replaced by a false worship. At best we would either all be heretics in continuing to believe the false worship that ALL THE WORLD worshipped or we would not be Christians at all.

Here lies another verse that confirms my testimony of who comes when and in what order:

Zechariah 10:4
From Judah will come the cornerstone, from him the tent peg, from him the battle bow, from him every ruler.

1) Cornerstone who is a symbol of Christ came as the historical Jesus of Nazereth

2) Then from him came the Tent Peg who is the temple builder God the Holy Spirit

3) Then after him when the true church is martyred in The World wide Calvary we see God the Father coming in the Great Day of Battle of God almighty to slaughter the enemy who took part in the whole sale slaughter of His Son's true church (seven hilled city) that Satan removed by his evil workmen before he could be revealed to the world to be worshipped as God on earth by who?

ALL THE WORLD.

The Great Day of Battle is when God the Father comes out of his places to unleash the plagues of seal 6 and 7 to bring down fire upon the inhabitants of earth and make a quick riddance of man and beast as prophesied in Zephaniah 1:2-6 and Malachi 4. Satan also goes by the name MOLEK.

Zechariah 14:2-3
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

You see verse above that follows the martyrdom of the true apostolic church then invites judgements from the Father who is depicted here in going forth on the Great Day of Battle to fight against the nations of the world who had slaughtered his Son's true body of believers.

Isaiah 14:9-12
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee (Son of Perfition) to meet thee at thy coming (SECOND COMING): it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth (Satan's workmen); it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? (Satan incarnate in flesh has become weak like his servants)

11 Thy pomp (SECOND COMING fan fare) is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Satan must first be incarnated to then be executed along with his children for that is yet to be fulfilled.

 

[101c]

GINLJC,
it amaze me when people read the bible carnally minded only. not taking account of the real aspect of the bible, which is spiritual. many lives have been saved, or destroyed spiritually, or religiously. for there is a spiritual warfare that is raging right now, and most are not aware of. and this spiritual warfare spills over into the carnal or secular world. but spiritual warfare have way more casualties, that conventional, carnal warfare. question, was not the world turned upside down after our Lord's death, and resurrection? lets just look at one example of this, Acts 17:5 "But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people. 6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also; 7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus. 8 And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things. 9 And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go".

Spiritual warfare even when spilled over into the secular world is way more deadly. the stars, mention here at not physical stars in the heavens, nor spiritually representative of angels. stars here are on the religious order. either good or bad. stars here represented of religious men and women with the message they carry, either good or bad. evil prophets, or teachers, in the book of Jude are called, wandering stars. the stars in revelation chapter 12 was of the religious order of men on earth. the third, was scribes, the chief priest, and the magi. men who knew, or had knowledge of Christ birth.
so the warfare of a spiritual nature is the greater concern, for ones life is at stake, both spiritually, and physically.

be blessed,

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
ask, and it shall be given unto you, ignorance cannot defeat you​

 

[Jack Terrence]

Satan is no longer the God of this world. He (or it) is in the Lake of Fire.

You're living in the past. Satan has no power over us today.

Thank you Lord!

You are right that satan has been destroyed. But your suggestion that he was the "god of this age" at any time is erroneous for two reasons:

1. The term "the God" (hotheos) cannot be a reference to satan because Christ is said to be in his image. Christ is NOT in the image of satan.

2. The term "of this age" is amphibolous and refers to unbelievers.

Translation:

God (hotheos) has blinded the minds of those who of this age do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (hotheos), should shine on them.

Satan was indeed a formidible enemy in his time. He has been destroyed as you say. But he was NEVER the God of this age.

 

[101c]

1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil".

his, works, is destroyed.

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
ask, and it shall be given unto you, ignorance cannot defeat you​

 

[he-man]

No. You contradict Jesus' words & Isaiah's.
Luke 4:18 GW GOD'S WORD Translation "The Spirit of the Lord is with me. He has anointed me to tell the Good News to the poor. He has sent me to announce forgiveness to the prisoners of sin and the restoring of sight to the blind, to forgive those who have been shattered by sin,

see Isaiah 58:6

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach dispensation to the slavery of prisoners, and recovering of sight to the blind, forgiveness to them that are broken, [KJV]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]άφεσι άφεση dispensation [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]αιχμάλωτος to the slavery of prisoners [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]θραύω [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]break/broken[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

 

[Serpentslayer]

Satan cannot be in the lake of fire because of the following scriptural reasons:

Matthew 13:38-43
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

1) The end of the great harvest has not come yet
2) The TARES are not yet burned in the fire (lake of fire)
3) The end of the physical world has not yet come
4) The Son of Man has not yet sent his angels to gather the TARES for the fire
5) The righteous have not ALL shined forth as the Sun in the kingdom of God
6) All Adam One life has not yet died
7) In context to the resurrection of the dead the end has not yet come, because Christ has not yet fully delivered up the kingdom to God the Father, because Adam One life still continues and those who are bidden to the wedding of the lamb have not yet fully arrived through the first resurrection.
8) The last enemy death has not yet been destroyed


It is very important to tie scripture in contextual relevance between the the end of the Great Harvest and the meaning of the Lake of Fire.

Also it is extremely important to distinguish between the first and second (last) judgements. These both have imperative importance to understanding the true context of the Lake of Fire.

1 Corinthians 15:22-26
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

The main problem with futurist, preterist, historicist and idealists eschatological views is that they place impartialities upon scripture in twisting context in order to meet their preconceived objective beliefs. By doing this they self refute one another.

I have shown in this short essay that the above 8 points can not have been fulfilled in 70AD as preterists would have us believe because they ignore both the first and second judgements related to the first and second deaths. The first death is the material physical death of the earthly Adam One body and the second is the immaterial spiritual death of the naked soul.

As scripture states all men are destined to die once, for this is the first death leading up to the first judgement in the separation of the sheep and TARES according to the white throne judgement of Christ.

Then we follow scripture to ascertain that the end of the great harvest has not yet reached until ALL the kingdom has been delivered up to the Father through the power of the first resurrection (resurrection of the dead). As John states that we be like our Lord in the resurrection. Preterists look at this verse in the same inclination as liberal theologists who deny the bodily resurrection of Christ to start of with.

In order for ALL the kingdom to be delivered up to God the Father, all that were bidden to be as the guests to the wedding of the lamb of God are ALL there fully arrayed as the Sun as Angels who have put on immortal garments after the resurrection. This has not happened for a very important reason because death which implies the first death, physical death has not been destroyed, for the simple reason that Adam One life continues. So long as Adam Ones live then death continues, it's obvious isn't it? Unless your a christian scientists.

Finally we arrive at the end of the world coinciding with the end of the harvest where those TARES who were rejected in the first judgement after their physical earthly bodies died, did not have part in the resurrection of the dead encompassing the time, time and half a time (THE 1000 years) allotted for the great harvest, so these are gathered as a group when all Adam One life has ceased to then face the second judgement. The second and final judgement is where the execution of the immaterial conscious soul of the tare, who was living in conscious outer darkness away from God is now finally put to rest by the second death in the lake of fire.

From all these points and discussion it is inevitable that full preterists have one inclination and that is to place constraints on scriptural interpretation by the number 70AD that they have plucked into their equation of understanding. It is by no fault of theirs that they continue to deceive one another by the errancy of their 70AD presumptions. Yet in scripture there is nothing mentioned about 70AD, but the preterists make it their focal point and in this regard my last two posts confidently prove that they don't have the answer, neither do the futurists, neither idealists and neither historicists.

I conclude with the true statement that Satan has yet to be revealed to the world as incarnated messiah in order to be executed like all Adam Ones within the same earthly realm. For he must be brought down to be made weak like a man, to then face both the first and second judgement coinciding with the first and second death. Once that happens then satan would be executed along with all those who had no part in the resurrection of the dead.

Isaiah 14:9-10
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming (SECOND COMING): it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth (THE TARES AWAITING SECOND DEATH); it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? (SATAN HAS BEEN INCARNATED IN HUMAN FORM IN HIS SECOND COMING ONLY TO BE KILLED PHYSICALLY TO FACE BOTH FIRST AND SECOND JUDGEMENTS INSTANTANEOUSLY WHEN CHRIST'S BRILLIANT LIGHT PUTS AN END TO ALL THE EARTHLY REALM AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET CALL)

 

[parousia70]

The Bar Kokhba revolt IS relevant to this discussion - because it is something that belongs to the "nor ever shall be" portion of this verse - no where did Jesus ever say "nor ever shall be UNTIL SOME JEWISH AGE ENDED" or "nor ever shall be til 70 AD"

And it is explained away that "great tribulation" such as never was nor ever will be again only applies locally and TEMPORALLY to that time in 70 AD - DESPITE Jesus' own words about "since the world began" and "no, nor, ever will be"

Mat 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Scripture tells us in 1 Kings 3:12 that there was "no king like Solomon before or after him." Such statements are then repeated in 2 Kings 18:5-6 of Hezekiah and in 2 Kings 23:25 of Josiah. Obviously, they can't all be the greatest King there ever was nor ever shall be. (And, of course, Jesus Christ surpasses even Solomon -- Matt. 12:42). Furthermore, this same Old Testament idea of "never will be again" is employed of various judgments that have already been fulfilled such as locusts in Egypt (Ex. 10:12-15; cf. Joel 1:1-4), a cry in Egypt (Ex. 11:6), and judgment upon O.T. Israel (Ez. 5:9; Joel 2:2). The Ezekiel 5:9 passage is especially instructive to us, for it states that the Babylonian conquest of Israel (sixth-century BC) would be the greatest judgment God had ever brought upon a nation, past or future. Therefore, we recognize that the expression "ever was/nor ever shall be" is a common Hebraic idiom meaning "very great" or "very much." Our Lord was simply saying in Matthew 24:21 that there would be very great tribulation. St. Luke's account of this great tribulation reads as follows:

These are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. (Luke 21:22-23)​

Without question, Jesus promised his apostles that they would live to see Israel's great tribulation ("great distress in the land and wrath upon this people") and all those things come to pass in their generation (Matt 24:33-34; Luke 21:31-32).

Oh, I forgot -- it's "all figurative" when you need it to be.

Just like you need these to be "figurative" right:?
"Shortly, Soon, At Hand, About to take place, will not delay, etc...

You are no literalist. You spiritualize what you need to, to fit your preconceived notions.

Pot, meet Kettle.

 

[Serpentslayer]

The lesson of the Fig Tree
(Matthew 24:32-35; Mark 13:28-31)

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

What is the fig tree?

It is Christ and connected to the fig tree are all the trees (branches) that through him shoot forth and bud.

In the Middle East the summer harvest encompasses the months of Jun, July, August and September. When Christ tells his disciples you are connected as the branches to the fig tree, he is alluding to the latter half of summer where the figs are ready to be picked in August and September.

Now we can understand what Jesus meant and how he split the great harvest into two halves the first half of the great harvest encompassing the Old Covenant people's and the latter half as the fig tree symbolizing the New Covenant saints. We know that in Jun and July the first half of the great harvest the Old Covenant people's are said to be the grape tree, yet the latter half of he great harvest the New Covenant are compared to the fig tree, yet both the first and latter encompass the grape tree that is Christ Jesus the living vine.

Once we gain this understanding we can then interpret what he meant by saying:

You know summer is now at hand, meaning the season for the FIRST PICKING of the fig tree is now ready for the first picking as he pointed to his disciples and their generation as being the first picking of the begining of the fig tree harvest. It was therefore fulfilled in that generation that the disciples of that time would be collected as the first picking of the fig tree harvest before the latter rain in October November and December. In the lattar rain the olive season symbolizing peace is where it coincides with the end of the harvest of the fig tree in late September.

First rain in February, April, March and May was the time of the earthly judges of Israel on earth, yet the latter rain will be at the end of the world when all the redeemed that needed to be delivered through the resurrection are all there arrayed as the Sun (angelic garments) in the wedding of th lamb of God. The lattar rain is the heavenly reign in New Jerusalem, the holy city of the resurrected saints of both the former and latter rain people's as judges in the heavenly measured inner court in the eternal timeless heavenly realm of the angels.

 

[coraline]

You are right that satan has been destroyed. But your suggestion that he was the "god of this age" at any time is erroneous for two reasons:

1. The term "the God" (hotheos) cannot be a reference to satan because Christ is said to be in his image. Christ is NOT in the image of satan.

2. The term "of this age" is amphibolous and refers to unbelievers.

Translation:

God (hotheos) has blinded the minds of those who of this age do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (hotheos), should shine on them.

Satan was indeed a formidible enemy in his time. He has been destroyed as you say. But he was NEVER the God of this age.

I think you will find a different Greek word in 2Cor.4:4 for the "god" of this age, & "Christ, who is the image of "God"

True , the god of that age (and I am just reiterating what Paul said) was blinding the unbelievers. Paul wasn't referring to God or Christ.
The Christians were to stand up to the wiles of the devil , in that evil age (*aeon) (Eph.6:10-13)

Also, Satan prowled around like a roaring lion (in that age), looking for someone to devour, according to Peter.

Paul also said in Gal.1:3,4 in reference to "this present evil age"
3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

John 14:30,
30 I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me;

Rev.12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


So, I got the impression that Satan was the prince or "god" of that age

You do believe the age to come, came, now don't you?

 

[Jack Terrence]

I think you will find a different Greek word in 2Cor.4:4 for the "god" of this age, & "Christ, who is the image of "God"

No Sis! The Greek word is the same.

ἐν οἷς ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου ἐτύφλωσεν τὰ νοήματα τῶν ἀπίστων εἰς τὸ μὴ αὐγάσαι τὸν φωτισμὸν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τῆς δόξης τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ.

The word hotheos appears twice. In the second reference Christ is said to be the image of hotheos. Therefore, the first reference to hotheos cannot be a reference to satan. Christ is NOT the image of satan.


The expression "of this age" is amphibolous and refers to the unbelievers of this age whom God has blinded. Paul had just made reference to the unbelievers of Moses' time who were blinded by God through the veil over Moses' face. The unbelievers of "this age" were also blinded by God by the "same veil."

Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For UNTIL THIS DAY the SAME VEIL remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

It was God Himself who blinded men in Moses' time by instrumentation of the veil. It was God who blinded men in Paul's time by instrumentation of the "same veil."

That said, Paul said also that the veil was being lifted by Christ. God does NOT blind men today.

Paul would NEVER have called satan by the name "hotheos." It would have been blasphemous. Any Christian who says that satan is the God of this age unwittingly blasphemes. Thankfully, God forgives our ignorance.

Translation:

God (hotheos) has blinded the minds of those who of this age do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (hotheos), should shine on them.

 

[coraline]

No Sis! The Greek word is the same.

ἐν οἷς ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου ἐτύφλωσεν τὰ νοήματα τῶν ἀπίστων εἰς τὸ μὴ αὐγάσαι τὸν φωτισμὸν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τῆς δόξης τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ.

The word hotheos appears twice. In the second reference Christ is said to be the image of hotheos. Therefore, the first reference to hotheos cannot be a reference to satan. Christ is NOT the image of satan.


The expression "of this age" is amphibolous and refers to the unbelievers of this age whom God has blinded. Paul had just made reference to the unbelievers of Moses' time who were blinded by God through the veil over Moses' face. The unbelievers of "this age" were also blinded by God by the "same veil."

Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For UNTIL THIS DAY the SAME VEIL remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

It was God Himself who blinded men in Moses' time by instrumentation of the veil. It was God who blinded men in Paul's time by instrumentation of the "same veil."

That said, Paul said also that the veil was being lifted by Christ. God does NOT blind men today.

Paul would NEVER have called satan by the name "hotheos." It would have been blasphemous. Any Christian who says that satan is the God of this age unwittingly blasphemes. Thankfully, God forgives our ignorance.

Translation:

God (hotheos) has blinded the minds of those who of this age do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (hotheos), should shine on them.

It may be the same Greek word, but there are 4 definitions for that word.
Every English Bible version has the 1st word spelled as "god" & the last capitalized: "God"
θεός,n \{theh'-os}
[SIZE=-1] 1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities 2) the Godhead, trinity 2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity 2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity 2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity 3) spoken of the only and true God 3a) refers to the things of God 3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him 4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way 4a) God's representative or viceregent 4a1) of magistrates and judges [/SIZE]

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/2co4.pdf
Moreover, Paul would just say God & not "the" god of that age.

Perhaps the commentary from Preteristsite Boxer, is a good mediator for you & me & helps present clearly what Paul meant:

~While it's true that the devil is said to be the god of this age, we know that God is "the King of the ages" (1 Tim. 1:17). Paul is simply stating that Satan is the chosen god of those who deny Jesus as Gods rightful heir of all things (Matt. 22:1-14). These are the true antichrists (2 John 2:7; 1 John 2:18). Jesus is in possession of "all authority," in both heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18-20). In addition, we know that Satan's power has not increased since Job's day. He is still a permission-seeking creature. This is especially true under the new and better covenant inaugurated by Jesus Christ. As the above verses make clear, Satan is a second-class creature who has been cast out and judged: "The ruler of this world shall be cast out" (John 12:31); "the ruler of this world has been judged" (16:11).
What, then, does the apostle mean when he describes Satan as "the god of this age"? First, we must never allow one passage to finalize our understanding of a particular doctrine. Scripture must be compared with Scripture. There are no contradictions. Therefore, we can't have the Bible saying of the one true God;I am the LORD, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God; (Isa. 45:5) and then making Satan a rival god. Paul must have something else in mind. We can't say that Satan has been judged and cast out, something that does not happen to gods, and still maintain that he is the god of this world similar to the way Jehovah is God of this world. Paul is making a theological point. For example, Jesus tells the Pharisees that the devil is their father (John 8:44). We know that Satan is not their biological father. Rather, he is their spiritual father in that they rejected their true Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
Physically these Jews, to be sure, are children of Abraham; but spiritually and morally--and that was the issue--they are the children of the devil.[4]
Jesus is describing the devil as one who gives birth to a worldview, a worldview that includes lying and murder. In this sense, Satan is their spiritual father. In the same way, Satan is a god to those who cling to the fading glory of Moses, "the ministry of death" (2 Cor. 3:7). This is the age over which he is a god, an age that "has no glory on account of the glory that surpasses it" (v. 10).
Second, the devil is chosen as a god by "those who are perishing," and he must blind them before they will follow him: "The god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Cor. 4:4). This passage teaches that unbelievers are fooled into believing that "the old covenant" where the "veil remains unlifted" is the way to life (v. 14). Satan is the god of the "ministry of death." The "god of this age" keeps them in bondage, "but whenever a man turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away" (v. 16). Liberty from the ministry of death only comes where the Spirit of Lord is: "Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (v. 17). But Satan has blinded the eyes of the unbelieving so they cannot see the lifted veil. They are still trusting in the shadows of the Old Covenant.
Third, like idols in general, the devil is "by nature" not a god (Gal. 4:8; cf. Deut. 32:17; Ps. 96:5; Isa. 44:9-20; 1 Cor. 8:4; 10:20). This includes the devil. In Philippians 3:19, Paul tells us that those who are "enemies of the cross of Christ" worship "their appetite": "For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is there appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things." The appetite is not a god, but it can be chosen as a god.
Fourth, the only way Satan can pass himself off as a god is to first blind his victims. Keep in mind that Jesus described the devil as "a liar, and the father of lies" (John 8:44). Though Satan masquerades as a god, this does make him a god. ~