How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

----------------
Jesus wanted to "gather" the children of Israel "together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings" (Matthew 23:37).
----------------

And Jesus wanted that - and Jesus was God - and He didn't get what He wanted.

Bummer.

Anto9us said:

----------------
Jesus wanted to "gather" the children of Israel "together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings" (Matthew 23:37).
----------------

And Jesus wanted that - and Jesus was God - and He didn't get what He wanted.

Bummer.

Click to expand...

Jesus was the servant of God in the days of His flesh sir. Jesus wept over the judgment which was about to come upon them.

41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

The Olivet Discourse was about God's judgment upon Israel for rejecting their Messiah. It was NOT about a worldwide judgment at all.

Complete Jewish Bible on Matthew 24:31:

“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, all the tribes of the LAND will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with tremendous power and glory.

It was about God's punishment upon the tribes of Israel. Revelation 1:7 says that it would specifically be those who pierced Him who would mourn. That would be Israel.

"They that pierced Him shall mourn because of Him."

Why do you think there are no priests in Judaism today? Answer: Because there is no tribe of Levi. God destroyed the twelve tribes. He made their house "desolate" (Matthew 23:38).

The futurist's brainwashing factory.

p

All Jewish genealogical records were destroyed in Herod's temple in AD70.

Gal.3: 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Dispensensationalists are the antisemitic ones who want the Jews to suffer another great tribulation.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

LittleLambofJesus said:

HUH? I didn't think those that believe Matt 24 as being fulfilled were considered "full preterists".
I thought only those that viewed ALL of Revelation fulfilled were considered full preterists. Can you please explain? Thanks

I am protesting this thread being moved to the unorthodox board

Click to expand...

You are correct about this. Partial Preterists believe that ALL of Matthew 24 is fulfilled just as the Full Preterists. The difference between them is that the Partial Preterists believe that the resurrection has not yet happened. But the Full Prets say that the resurrection has happened.

I second your protest.

coraline said:

Biblical Judaism ended in AD70. Even the Jews today know this, & celebrate with a toast to the end in AD70.

Just for spite, the Jews perpetuate Judaism - called Rabbinic Judaism.
But it's man-made.

Click to expand...

Exactly! There is no Biblical Israel or Judaism today.

What needs to be understood is that modern Israel is not the Israel of scripture, they are not the descendants of Abraham. There is no race of Jews today! The Encyclopedia Britannica (Vol. 12, p. 1054) 1973 says, "The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race."Jewish author, Camille Honig, editor of The Jewish Voice, wrote (Nov, 1953),"It is sheer nonsense, as well as unscientific, to speak of a Jewish race. Jews do not belong to a single homogeneous group."

This is acknowledged by historians of all stripes who know that the Ashkenaz Jews of today were, in fact, Gentiles in origin. Ashkenaz Jews, who comprise the vast majority of those calling themselves Jews today, trace their lineage back to Gomer, who in turn was descended from Japheth, the son of Noah (Genesis 10:3; 1 Chronicles 1:4f). However, the lineage of Abraham came through Noah's son Shem, not Japheth. This is incredibly important, and yet, is being essentially ignored by most Bible students today.

Thus, for modern prophecy teachers to proclaim that Israel remains the chosen people of God, is a falsehood, for Biblical Israel does not exist today. There is no nation of Israel, descended from Abraham, today.

But, it is not only wrong from a purely ethnic/racialperspective, to speak of the restoration of Israel today, it is also wrong from a Biblical perspective. The nation of Israel was never intended to be God's ultimate "People." He had something else in mind, something which even the nation of Israel typified. Yet, programs like Wings of Eagles, by claiming that Israel remains the chosen people, whom the modern church must support at all costs, are tacitly guilty of rejecting what God had in mind as the actual goal of Israel's destiny.

The idea of a restored Israel is a modern myth, for Biblical Israel, physically descended from Abraham, simply does not exist. She ceased to exist in A.D. 70. The "Jews" in Israel today are Ashkenaz, and are Gentiles by race. Even Jewish anthropologists admit that there is no ethnic race of Israel to day.


Are the Jews God's chosen people?

coraline said:

All Jewish genealogical records were destroyed in Herod's temple in AD70.

Gal.3: 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Dispensensationalists are the antisemitic ones who want the Jews to suffer another great tribulation.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

Click to expand...

Amen!

If this doesn't stay in UT _ then the Full Prets (if there are any) don't get a chance to vote

Anto9us said:

If this doesn't stay in UT _ then the Full Prets (if there are any) don't get a chance to vote

Click to expand...

But the Mod said this,

Since the OP voted for a full preterist position, and that is not allowed in GT, it will be moved as to not generate any reports of Statement of Faith, and rules, violations.

It seems that the Mod thinks that the belief that all of Matthew 24 is fulfilled is exclusively the Full Preterist position. But the belief that ALL of Matthew 24 is fulfilled is the Partial Preterist position too. The difference between the Full Pret and the Partial Pret is on the timing of the resurrection which the Olivet Discourse does not even mention.

Both the Full and the Partial Prets maintain that Matthew 24 is about God's judgment upon national Israel for their rejection of the Messiah and was COMPLETELY fulfilled. However, you do make a good point about the thread's relocation making it legal for the Full Prets to vote.

I see your point about what the OP said as a reason for relocation, Boxer.

If the OP herself feels that it should be in GT Eschatology - I will Third the re-relocation of it

I don't know if there really ARE any Full Prets around - but it seems as widespread as response has been to this poll -- that maybe having it where a Full Pret could vote on it is a good idea.

In any case it has gotten GREAT response - 157 voters

The Boxer said:

Exactly! There is no Biblical Israel or Judaism today. The idea of a restored Israel is a modern myth, for Biblical Israel, physically descended from Abraham, simply does not exist. She ceased to exist in A.D. 70. The "Jews" in Israel today are Ashkenaz, and are Gentiles by race. Even Jewish anthropologists admit that there is no ethnic race of Israel to day.

Click to expand...

:o Many scoffers do not have the revelation from God that He will rule the earth From ZION, the New Jerusalem when Christ returns. Psalm 115:17-18 (KJV) La 2:15 — All that pass by clap their hands at thee; They hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men called The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth?

Psalm 48:1-2 (KJV) Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.
2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

Heb 12:22 — but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem [on earth], and to innumerable hosts of angels,

Mt 5:35 — nor by the earth, for it is the footstool of his feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
Isa 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but Jehovah will be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

Revelation 22:5 ( And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

GINOLJC, to all

I have not read all of the post, but only responding to the OP, this was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. let me explain my self. true, Matt 24:34 "I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done". one must fully understand the "second coming". it is a two fold coming. the second coming is of "appearance", and "manifestation". when our Lord Jesus came on Pentecost, it was a coming of "manifestation", and when he come to judge the world, it will be a coming in "appearance", or in bodily form. please see (Hebrews 9:28). that's the difference of the second coming. for our Lord manifested himself through his body, (the church with spiritual gifts). but the next time appear in bodily fashion, for all to see. supportive scriptures, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". well how did Jesus our Lord come to us. let Jesus answer it, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him". John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him". ok, now we know that our Lord will MANIFEST himself to us, so how is he going to do it?. let the scriptures answer that, John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, (HOLD IT SEND IN MY NAME). if one come in someone name who is that person?, the one that have the name, in this case, JESUS, and who sent JESUS the CHRIST in HIS NAME?, that's right the ETERNAL SPIRIT, GOD. one in the Same. lets pick it back up, "he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". so its the COMFORTER, the Holy Spirit. question who is the Comforter, as we said, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". "I", is singular, meaning ONE PERSON, but I thought Jesus said, he and the father?. answer they are the same in one PERSON. lets see how Jesus, the Comforter manifest himself, again let the bible answer it. 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.2 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". just finish reading the gifts listed from verse 8-onward. that's how Jesus manifest himself.
so Jesus is the Holy Spirit, can one support this by scripture, #1. 2 Corinthians 3:17a "Now the Lord is that Spirit". notice the capital "S" in Spirit. #2. Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his". question, how many Spirit are there? answer only ONE. in revelation 22:6 Christ is identified as the "Lord God", who sent his angel with the letter to John. can this be supportive of the Christ as the Spirit, who is the one in the Holy prophets of old?. Yes, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". now without a doubt, is was the Spirit in the holy prophets, which is CHRIST, who is God.

conclusion, Matt 24:34 was fulfilled by our Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ, on Pentecost, and that GENERATION was still alive. we just need to know that his second coming is, its a two fold coming. we do know that he is Spirit, and have a body, scripture, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". so Jesus, who is Spirit, have a body, and his Spirit, he sent on Pentecost. so the second coming is two fold. "appearance", and "manifestation". the manifestation have already happen, now only the appearance awaits.


I hope this helped.

be blessed.

so...

it's all happened

but it hasn't happened yet!

I got it.

Anto9us said:

so...

it's all happened

but it hasn't happened yet!

I got it.

Click to expand...

The term used is already /not yet (AKA inaugurated eschatology)

inaugurated eschatology

already/not yet -- I had forgotten about that term...

I wonder if there is also an "inaugurated binding" of Satan

on Eschatology Forum - I questioned that how could Satan be already "bound" and yet pictured as going about as a roaring lion trying to devour people and spoken of as "prince and power of the air"?

the answer included that Satan was bound with a really long chain that allowed him to be on the earth and in the air

I do not think Satan is actually, literally a large carnivorous feline going around devouring people; neither do I insist that he will be bound with a literal metal chain

but the Bible PICTURES both - it just doesn't picture them both as occurring AT THE SAME TIME - he is either BOUND or he is roaming/devouring - but even if BOTH are as FIGURATIVE as can be; they CANNOT be simultaneous

where did "already/not yet" come from?

something strikes me concerning Bock and Progressive Dispensationalism...

really, to say "already/not yet" is like saying "2 plus 2 = 5"

He -man, Peter confirmed that the scoffers were already present to the disciples. He believed they were living in the "end times."

The new heavens & earth have come, where "righteousness dwells (the kingdom of God)

And believers have already come to Mt. Zion.
Heb.12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Anto9us said:

I wonder if there is also an "inaugurated binding" of Satan

Click to expand...

"And the God of peace shall crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY." Romans 16:20

Paul assured the first century Christians that God would crush satan under THEIR feet. It was to be done "SHORTLY."

So Paul thought the Roman brethren would crush Satan under their feet SHORTLY -- wrote that at the same time (approximately) that Peter pictured Satan as a roaring lion ready to devour Christians. I hope the Roman Christians were able to step on Satan without getting their feet tangled in that long chain.

Anyway, back to Matthew 24

Mat 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

For those that said ALL of Matthew 24 is fulfilled -- do I take it that you think the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. and the few years of persecution under Nero that preceded it were indeed this GREAT TRIBULATION spoken of in Mathhew 24?

A TRIBULATION greater than any seen "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time"

which would include THE FLOOD, would it not?

and "no, nor ever shall be" which SINCE that time would include Hitler's Holocaust.

Could what happened at 70 A.D. be seen as "BEING WORSE THAN NOAH'S FLOOD?"

Can it be seen as being WORSE THAN WHAT HITLER DID LATER?

Or is it just possible the world has really not seen yet "great tribulation, such as never was from the beginning of the world and will never be equaled since"?

Anyway, for those "all fulfilled-ers" - if the Temple destruction and few years of persecution by Nero was NOT the TRIBULATION that you see - what was - when was it - and what made it worse than a global FLOOD and Hitler's persecution?

Just curious - if you "all fulfilled-ers" think the following has ALREADY HAPPENNED as well:

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:



Paul had earlier said "at present" (that is - at the time he was writing) that only a REMNANT of Israel was saved:


Rom 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


But at some LATER POINT than "at present" to Paul; he says "all Israel shall be saved"

For the "Israel is all over with" crowd; the "there really is no biblical Israel anymore" crowd - what do you make of this passage:


Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Rom 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


Not only did ISRAEL STILL EXIST to Paul, but they had a BLINDNESS which was TEMPORARY - going to last "til the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" - so Paul -

despite other verses that are given that say "no difference between Jew and Gentile" (which applies to redeemed individuals being equal);

is here OBVIOUSLY juxtaposing an ISRAEL with a "times of the Gentiles"

and predicts a "SAVING" of "all Israel" -

an as-yet-FUTURE SAVING of this Israel which some think does not exist anymore is right there in the end of Romans 11 in black and white

a SAVING of apparently a different nature than "an individual Jew coming to belief now and then" as has been happening down through history

what's more worst, missing ETERNITY, and loosing your life. if one value this life more that eternity, then yes, be concern with the things of this world. well, that's carnal thinking. just like the Jews of our Lords day. they was looking for physical deliverance. when they need spiritual deliverance. the warfare we fight is Spiritual. theses physical wars is nothing compared to the spiritual warfare that is going on. LIFE is at stake, maybe your own?.


be blessed, I hope.