How might Satan Mimic the Second Coming in the Clouds of Heaven?

[Hammster]

Then how would you explain the two events?

Can you be more specific?

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Can you be more specific?

Please explain how Jesus's coming in the clouds and His second advent (which literally means arrival) are two different events

 

[Hammster]

Please explain how Jesus's coming in the clouds and His second advent (which literally means arrival) are two different events

Coming on the clouds is judgement language, as seen in Isaiah 19. Also, when we compare it Daniel 7, you’ll see that the coming isn’t from heaven to earth, but from earth to the throne. There’s no OT reference that shows coming on the clouds is related to coming to earth physically.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

He went up one a cloud, He's coming back on one

 

[Hammster]

Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

He went up one a cloud, He's coming back on one

Is that the entirety of your argument?

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Is that the entirety of your argument?

Which part are you having trouble with?

 

[d taylor]

There will be no mistaking the coming of The Messiah

 

[Hammster]

Which part are you having trouble with?

The lack of any support, and the complete ignoring of the OT usage of the term. Not to mention, even the terminology doesn’t make sense. Coming on the clouds isn’t the opposite of clouds receiving Him.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

The scriptures say He's coming AGAIN in the same way. Skew them all you want, they speak for themselves. Your argument is with the scripture I presented, not with me.

 

[Hammster]

The scriptures say He's coming AGAIN in the same way. Skew them all you want, they speak for themselves. Your argument is with the scripture I presented, not with me.

What does this mean?


The oracle concerning Egypt.
Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt;
The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence,
And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.
— Isaiah 19:1

 

[SongOnTheWind]

What does this mean?

Psalm 104
104 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

Both your scripture reference and and the one I have presented here do not mention Jesus's coming again. The one I provided previously does.

Revelation 11:15-18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

This portion of scripture from the book of Revelation clearly shows us that when Jesus does come, He is coming as Judge. The cloud may represent judgement to you, but you can clearly see that Jesus has no problem handing out that judgement at his SECOND coming.

By the way, you still have not explained your chronology at all. I would be interested to see the timeline you lay out for the events unfolding as you see them

 

[Hammster]

What does this mean?

Psalm 104
104 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

Both your scripture reference and and the one I have presented here do not mention Jesus's coming again. The one I provided previously does.

Revelation 11:15-18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

This portion of scripture from the book of Revelation clearly shows us that when Jesus does come, He is coming as Judge. The cloud may represent judgement to you, but you can clearly see that Jesus has no problem handing out that judgement at his SECOND coming.

By the way, you still have not explained your chronology at all. I would be interested to see the timeline you lay out for the events unfolding as you see them

Well, Matthew 24 explains the end of Jerusalem. 1 Corinthians exploring the return of Christ.

And you didn’t address Isaiah 19.

 

[Timtofly]

He’s already come on the clouds just like in the OT. Once you find out what it meant then, you’ll understand what Jesus meant in Matt 24. (Hint: see Isaiah 19)

Can you prove the Mount of Olives was split in half, and two rivers flow out of Jerusalem after 70AD?

Zechariah 14

 

[Timtofly]

We haven’t met Him in the air because coming on the clouds doesn’t mean He physically returned. It’s not His second advent

Coming on the clouds is the form of Him leaving. 70AD did not fulfill the Second Coming, so not all of the Olivet Discourse nor the future Revelation given by John have been fulfilled. It is your word against the words of Josephus.

 

[Hammster]

Coming on the clouds is the form of Him leaving. 70AD did not fulfill the Second Coming, so not all of the Olivet Discourse nor the future Revelation given by John have been fulfilled. It is your word against the words of Josephus.

Of course 70 AD didn’t fulfill the second coming.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Well, Matthew 24 explains the end of Jerusalem. 1 Corinthians exploring the return of Christ.

And you didn’t address Isaiah 19.

I believe in Matthew Chapter 24 Jesus was speaking of the end of the age, which is not yet fulfilled even now. Which chapters of 1 Corinthians are you referencing specifically? And I did address Isaiah 19 in the previous post, you can check if you like

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Yes, he does, which will only further help his cause. He'll probably twist a scripture here or there and someone not well founded in the Bible would fall for it easily. And since it's God that sends the strong delusion I imagine people will have no problem thinking the Savior has returned because of those lying wonders and miracles. Will he completely mimic Christ's return? Maybe. I've thought about that at times myself. Paul states that he is 'disguised as an angel of light" And Revelation states he had horns like a lamb but spoke as a dragon.

I think he'll try to counterfeit as much as possible for sure, but there will be some things beyond his power that he can't fake. However, as you say, people will be under a strong delusion (sometimes I wonder if that delusion has already been sent) so it may be that he won't have to work all that hard in order to deceive a great many.

In the past couple of years, the pope has been meeting with other religious leaders of different faiths to try to merge beliefs. Ever heard of Chrislam? The one world government will have one religion, centred around the anti-christ who will proclaim himself to be God. Until I heard about Chrislam, I always thought that people would end up worshipping aliens, with the devil as head alien or something. There are cults out there that believe that God is an alien who travelled from some planet far out of the reaches of our secluded sector of space. As you pointed out he has horns like a lamb (trying to mimic the Lamb of God?) but spoke like a dragon (can't quite get the voice right?) There will be something off about him, and he won't be able to quite deceive the elect (although there is a danger of this happening, which is why the Lord cuts his time short).

I really have thought he would definitely try to claim to be a son of David, though. Present some kind of 'lineage'. Maybe from Solomon? The 666 reference that someone else picked up on, concerning Solomon, seems to hint at that possibility at the very least.

 

[Hammster]

I believe in Matthew Chapter 24 Jesus was speaking of the end of the age, which is not yet fulfilled even now. Which chapters of 1 Corinthians are you referencing specifically? And I did address Isaiah 19 in the previous post, you can check if you like

Sorry. 1 Corinthians 15.

And you didn’t say what you thought about Isaiah 19. You just posted other texts.

 

[Hammster]

I believe in Matthew Chapter 24 Jesus was speaking of the end of the age, which is not yet fulfilled even now

Is it possible, textually, that end of the age is referring to the end of the old covenant?

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Sorry. 1 Corinthians 15.

And you didn’t say what you thought about Isaiah 19. You just posted other texts.

I compared it to other texts to show you what I thought. I still don't have a clue about your chronology. If you don't want to explain, that's ok. I think we're derailing the thread a bit, anyway