How many people would go for this if they could?

[SithDoughnut]

And, see, mine is a case where I don't have to provide evidence for what I believe. I'm not trying to convince others to believe it, I simply believe it myself.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Because dingdong said so. You understand?

 

[b&wpac4]

Yeah, but you're wrong. Because dingdong said so. You understand?

Yes, of course. I should have known.

 

[dingdong]

But this goes back to the basic problem. We discussed religious beliefs before, and you basically called me stupid for having a religious belief where I don't get anything given to me here or in the afterlife. Like my religion was a giant version of "Let's Make A Deal".

Perhaps you would like to back off that statement, or explain, in detail, why having a religious belief that doesn't give you a leg-up on everybody else is stupid.

I like my religion. I like the customs, I like the beliefs, I like the works of the Jewish sages and rabbis over the years. I don't believe this makes God like me any more than God likes you, or that I'll have front-row tickets to any sort of afterlife party. I simply want to do what I do.

I can honestly say this, I do not understand, (apart from you being a Jew) why would anyone want anything to do with a religion in this world if they didn't think there was something in it for them in the next? if a person is religious they must obviously believe in the religion and it's teachings.

I don't understand the logic of being religious but not getting anything from the religion other than fellowship and companionship.

 

[b&wpac4]

I can honestly say this, I do not understand, (apart from you being a Jew) why would anyone want anything to do with a religion in this world if they didn't think there was something in it for them in the next?

and you don't bother trying to understand either. This is why I called you a fundamentalist. You are correct, and anything that doesn't conform to your ideas must be rejected out of hand without even being considered.

You are just as bad as people who deny evolution by simply citing Genesis.

 

[b&wpac4]

Oh, and just for fun:

I'm a convert to Judaism, I was not born a Jew.

 

[dingdong]

All claims require evidence. All claims that are not supported by evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

In this do you include religions? or is absence of evidence not evidence of absence?

 

[SithDoughnut]

In this do you include religions? or is absence of evidence not evidence of absence?

Yes and yes. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Oh, and just for fun:

I'm a convert to Judaism, I was not born a Jew.

Really? Is anyone in your family Jewish? I'm just wondering because I know a few Jews who treat their religion as part of their culture as much as a belief. One of them is just a 'cultural Jew' and does not actually believe in a god.

 

[b&wpac4]

Really? Is anyone in your family Jewish

My fiancee' is Jewish and her faith got me interested in the religion because I wanted to know more about the beliefs she had. I became convinced when I decided that, while it could be mere coincidence, it seemed very amazing that the Jewish people had survived all the years they have despite being persecuted by nearly every people they lived among.

 

[dingdong]

And, see, mine is a case where I don't have to provide evidence for what I believe. I'm not trying to convince others to believe it, I simply believe it myself.

In your case it might well be true but you must agree that in general....

If this was true the discussion boards would be empty, if people kept their religions to themselves they would disappear in a generation, but sadly they don't.
Children are the first to be targeted (and religious people have no shame about that whatsoever?) because they are the most vulnerable and the easiest to indoctrinate with the fantasy that is religion.

 

[dingdong]

Oh, and just for fun:

I'm a convert to Judaism, I was not born a Jew.

So you became a Jew just for the fun of it.

 

[b&wpac4]

Children are the first to be targeted (and religious people have no shame about that whatsoever?) because they are the most vulnerable and the easiest to indoctrinate with the fantasy that is religion.

My children will be taught Judaism, not only because it is part of their cultural heritage, but because I do believe it is correct. They will take part in the rituals that are part of the faith. But they will also be told the importance of education, and taught to think for themselves. Education and thinking are very, very important in the Jewish faith.

 

[dingdong]

Jewish people had survived all the years they have despite being persecuted by nearly every people they lived among.

Jewish people were persecuted because they never wanted to integrate into the adopted country (like Gypsies) the Muslims are doing the same thing in the UK today, but in their case there will either be a revolution or they will eventually make the UK a Muslim country.
No I can not provide a citation, it's a gut feeling that given enough time they will increase in population and the Brits will either leave or be absorbed, I am thinking seriously about leaving myself.

 

[SithDoughnut]

So you became a Jew just for the fun of it.

Do you believe in current scientific theory "just for the fun of it"?

If you do, it would explain a lot but I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say you believe it because it makes sense to you. You probably believe it because the evidence you have seen leads you to conclude that it is true.

I'm going to take a second stab in the dark and say that many religious people are religious for the same reason. Of course, any of them are free to correct me if I'm wrong but they probably believe in their religion because they think it is correct.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Jewish people were persecuted because they never wanted to integrate into the adopted country (like Gypsies)

That is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard you say.

the Muslims are doing the same thing in the UK today, but in their case there will either be a revolution or they will eventually make the UK a Muslim country.

Oh wait, hang on, this is.

No I can not provide a citation, it's a gut feeling that given enough time they will increase in population and the Brits will either leave or be absorbed, I am thinking seriously about leaving myself.

I never thought I'd meet an atheist with a right-wing, fundamentalist, Christian mentality. Just goes to show, really.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Oh man this is getting better... the name dingdong is now self-explanatory.

 

[dingdong]

Jewish people were persecuted because they never wanted to integrate into the adopted country (like Gypsies) the Muslims are doing the same thing in the UK today, but in their case there will either be a revolution or they will eventually make the UK a Muslim country.
No I can not provide a citation, it's a gut feeling that given enough time they will increase in population and the Brits will either leave or be absorbed, I am thinking seriously about leaving myself.

That is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard you say.

Oh wait, hang on, this is.

I never thought I'd meet an atheist with a right-wing, fundamentalist, Christian mentality. Just goes to show, really.

No problem, you tell us why the Jews have always been persecuted?

You could be right about the Muslims in the UK, they really don't want the UK to be a Muslim country they just feel that changing old churches into Mosques at the rate of 1 1/2 a week is environmentally friendly,
in 1990 there were 400 Mosques in the UK, there are now 1689 and rising.

I am an Atheist left wing Brit who can read between the lines, the elections are coming up soon, let's see how many BNP members are elected shall we? once upon a time there would never have been a BNP party in the country.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

No problem, you tell us why the Jews have always been persecuted?

Let me use your logic, ah for the fun of it.

 

[SithDoughnut]

No problem, you tell us why the Jews have always been persecuted?

Well, you could start with the common view in much of Europe that the Jews killed Jesus. That's a pretty major cause right there. There was also dislike aimed at the Jews because some of them made a living as money lenders - they could charge interest while Christians could not. Add to that a general mistrust of other religions by Christians in Europe and you had a steadily growing institutionalised dislike or even hatred towards the Jews. The Crusades were not solely against the Muslims, after all.

A good example of a common western view of Jews a few centuries back is the Shakespeare play The Merchant of Venice. In that play, Shylock is the Jewish villain, depicted as a vicious usurer who asks for the famous 'pound of flesh'. This view was far from uncommon at the time.

Jews on several occasions have not completely integrated with general society. However, this was often not their choice. One example of this is the Edict of Expulsion in 1290 in England, where Jews were expelled from England and allowed to only take what they could carry. The rest of their property was then seized by the state. The only way to escape this fate was to renouce Judaism and accept Christianity. Another very good example is the ghettos of Nazi Germany - the Jews didn't exactly voluntarily exile themselves there either.

You could be right about the Muslims in the UK, they really don't want the UK to be a Muslim country they just feel that changing old churches into Mosques at the rate of 1 1/2 a week is environmentally friendly,
in 1990 there were 400 Mosques in the UK, there are now 1689 and rising.

Probably because the Muslim population of Britain is expanding rapidly, and mosques are required where there were none. I fail to see how that signifies a Muslim takeover of the UK.

I am an Atheist left wing Brit who can read between the lines, the elections are coming up soon, let's see how many BNP members are elected shall we? once upon a time there would never have been a BNP party in the country.

Once upon a time the BNP would have been redundant - the major political parties stood for everything the BNP stands for today. Are you saying that you're going to vote BNP?

 

[dingdong]

Once upon a time the BNP would have been redundant - the major political parties stood for everything the BNP stands for today. Are you saying that you're going to vote BNP?

Of course I'm not but a lot will especially in places where Muslims have virtually taken the towns over.