How many ex-Christians are there here on CF and reason for leaving Christianity?

[Robban]

'No one is getting out of here alive,' thats an interesting way of saying it.

But I suspect it is only a part of this worlds falseness.

 

[Chris V++]

Truth be told, there's no more evidence that you only
live once than there is that you live more than once.
And when you have small children recounting life situations
that they couldn't otherwise have known about, it's not the
sort of thing that can be easily dismissed with a wave of
the hand.

I met a pianist once who was born knowing how to play by ear and who couldn't but didn't need to read music. Her explanation was "I don't know where it comes from." Some sort of supernatural telepathy maybe?

 

[bèlla]

It is good to have order in one’s prayerlife I think.

I agree. I pray specific ones as I’m led and scripture as a whole. I have the Ohel Sarah. But I haven’t used it much.

This is a period of introspection. I prepare my mind and heart for Rosh HaShanah and reflect on the year to come.

 

[Chris V++]

Faith is the root, trust is the trunk and the branches give fruit.

And the Word is the seed.

 

[Robban]

I agree. I pray specific ones as I’m led and scripture as a whole. I have the Ohel Sarah. But I haven’t used it much.

This is a period of introspection. I prepare my mind and heart for Rosh HaShanah and reflect on the year to come.

Elul a time when the King is in the field,

 

[Robban]

Although on September 1, 1939,

corresponding to the Hebrew date 17 Elul.
the Nazi wermacht invaded Poland,

launching WW2

Maybe too few went out to meet the King.

IDK

 

[roman2819]

What would you consider credible evidence?

It would be claims of rebirth that have been well verified by independent parties, and confirmed to be true. If you know, share with us such cases, including detailed information.

 

[Rajni]

It would be claims of rebirth that have been well verified by independent parties, and confirmed to be true. If you know, share with us such cases, including detailed information.

As one who has, in the past, believed in such things as
burning bushes that don't deteriorate in the process,
talking snakes and talking donkeys, being swallowed by a
whale and living to tell about it 3 days later, manna
falling from the sky, immaculate conception, the turning
of water into wine, walking on water, the parting of a sea
so people can cross it on dry land, I found following was
also not beyond the realm of possibility (though I didn't
accept the concept of reincarnation overnight… far from it).

Here are a few items I found compelling, though YMMV:

❂ The Science of Reincarnation—VIRGINIA Magazine
❂ The Case of Shanti Devi — Carol Bowman, Past Life Therapy
❂ Chilling Reincarnation Stories: Children Who Lived Before | Reader's Digest



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[Robban]

Although on September 1, 1939,

corresponding to the Hebrew date 17 Elul.
the Nazi wermacht invaded Poland,

launching WW2

Maybe too few went out to meet the King.

IDK

Isaiah 55:6,

is similar.
In as much as seek while He is to be found,

 

[roman2819]

Greetings, roman2819, I will have to respectfully disagree.

Rebirth on one level is indeed directly observable - my adult-self has been reborn from my child-self, and my child-self has been reborn from my infant-self, etc.

Rebirth on the other levels - the consciousness & mental continuums - are said in the early Buddhist scriptures to require achievement of the fourth jhana in meditation (where the mind disassociates from the body) before one can directly observe rebirth happening across multiple physical lifetimes. The vast majority of individuals have not achieved the fourth jhana, much less the first, and so cannot observe these things.

If God is real, then the question becomes: "What is its nature, and is it truly the highest goal in life?" Based on what I have observed about life, my answer is "no".

How do attempts at answering the question about their existence address the more fundamental question about our purpose in life?

I haven't observed any of these things for myself, therefore I consider them hearsay and unprovable.

I believe I have had prayers answered in Buddhism as well.

If some of my prayers were answered by Buddhist devas, what does that say about prayer and the Christian god?

You did not comment directly about the creation. What do you think of the earth ecology system, with miliions of varieties of life in plants and living creatures, can happen on its own without God the creator?

Even when i was not a Christian yet, I found that it was way too far-fetch to believe that all these could happen on their own.

 

[ananda]

You did not comment directly about the creation. What do you think of the earth ecology system, with miliions of varieties of life in plants and living creatures, can happen on its own without God the creator?

Even when i was not a Christian yet, I found that it was way too far-fetch to believe that all these could happen on their own.

In an infinite universe with infinite potential, it is reasonable to suggest that such constructs will inevitably arise in one part of the universe or another.

It's just that we, as constructs wherein consciousness has arisen, reflect on the arising of all of these things and impose our concepts and our ideas of meaning on it all, when in reality they are simply just things which arose from the aggregations of more simple components.

Needless to say, it seems impossible to truly know the answer to "why or how did it happen?. As the Buddha pointed out, this is ultimately an exercise in futility and madness, since we cannot know - only speculate. As a Buddhist, the real question is rather "how do I address it?" with the tools at my disposal.

 

[Chris V++]

Yup... I no longer accept the idea there is "one true religion". That's a category error. People have different predispositions, how could one religion be true for everyone?

Religion A proposes there is one righteous God who commands us not to worship false gods.
Religion B proposes there are thousands of Gods, some righteous, some not.

Predispositions notwithstanding, how can both propositions be objectively true?

 

[ananda]

Religion A proposes there is one righteous God who commands us not to worship false gods.
Religion B proposes there are thousands of Gods, some righteous, some not.

Predispositions notwithstanding, how can both propositions be objectively true?

It can be if the god of religion A is deluded or ignorant.

 

[dlamberth]

Religion A proposes there is one righteous God who commands us not to worship false gods.
Religion B proposes there are thousands of Gods, some righteous, some not.

Predispositions notwithstanding, how can both propositions be objectively true?

There are other options.

 

[dlamberth]

You did not comment directly about the creation. What do you think of the earth ecology system, with miliions of varieties of life in plants and living creatures, can happen on its own without God the creator?

Even when i was not a Christian yet, I found that it was way too far-fetch to believe that all these could happen on their own.

The way I see it is that with in the ongoing creation process itself, with in the Life Force of Life, are the means to Create infinite possibilities.

 

[Chris V++]

There are other options.

Not sure what you mean by other options in the scenario I proposed unless both are wrong?
Either A is right or B is right or both are wrong. Delusion wouldn't qualify as objective truth.

It can be if the god of religion A is deluded or ignorant.

So a delusion would qualify as objective truth if believed in ignorance?
Would a lie become objectively true if I sincerely believe it? Keep in mind this was a response to Firedragon's 'no one true religion' statement with the implication that many are true.

 

[ananda]

So a delusion would qualifies as objective truth if believed in ignorance? Would a lie become objectively true if I sincerely believe it?

I come from a perspective that "objective truth" doesn't really exist. It mainly involves the physical plane of existence, without consideration that there are other more fundamental planes of existence that involves mind and consciousness.

 

[Chris V++]

I come from a perspective that "objective truth" doesn't really exist.

Christian's can't have that perspective. Christianity requires absolutes. Jesus discussed truth at His own trial:

37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate.

 

[ananda]

Christian's can't have that perspective. Christianity requires absolutes. Jesus discussed truth at His own trial:

37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate.

If consciousness is the ground of beingness, then the only "objective truth" is "subjective truth".

 

[FireDragon76]

Religion A proposes there is one righteous God who commands us not to worship false gods.
Religion B proposes there are thousands of Gods, some righteous, some not.

Predispositions notwithstanding, how can both propositions be objectively true?

That's a false dichotomy.