• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

How many are saved?

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by JohnClay, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Steve97

    Steve97 Active Member

    271
    +239
    Tajikistan
    Christian
    Married
    UK - SNP
    I never doubt my own salvation. I guess my answer to the question is one.
     
  2. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

    +1,027
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    WARNING

    Matthew 7:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     
  3. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,066
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Yes and notice in verse 22 what these many people were trusting in for salvation and it wasn't Christ alone. Notice also in verse 23 that Jesus NEVER knew them. Sobering words for "nominal" Christians who trust in works for salvation!
     
  4. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

    +1,027
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    and it is a warning not to trust all that claim the mantel of Jesus Christ
     
  5. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

    +1,027
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    you need to expound on this statement of works in light of the following verses.

    James 2:18
    Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

    James 2:20
    But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    James 2:26
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
     
  6. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +9,018
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    By far
    you apparently missed the point
    no problem.
    M
     
  7. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,066
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

    James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

    In regards to James 2:18-20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. Again, f someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

    In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

    Nominal Christians/unbelievers can still produce works, yet without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many so called wonderful works that unbelievers set out to conjure up in a vain effort o obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23)
     
  8. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,066
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Then feel free to clarify.
     
  9. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +9,018
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I like to look at Works as a byproduct.

    Wide road going Down could be
    4 lanes going down?

    Narrow road
    1 lane going up?

    No one knows for sure but,
    Jesus mentioned hell a lot.

    M-Bob
     
  10. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +1,066
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Yes, works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of obtaining salvation.
     
  11. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

    +1,027
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Thanks
     
  12. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +9,018
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Very true I think.
    M-Bob

    What did jesus teach nicodemus?

    "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
    upload_2020-1-13_8-16-58.png
    web.mit.edu › jywang › www › cef
    Bible Gateway John 3 :: NIV - MIT
     
  13. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,195
    Christian
    Married
    It wasn't so much that these "claimants" trusted in works ... as it was that they hadn't placed any trust in Christ.

    I don't believe that God will withhold His salvation from those who mistakenly put SOME trust in WORKS, ... so long as they have trusted in Christ ...
     
  14. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

    +914
    United States
    Reformed
    Widowed
    I've heard that statistically (just from a human stand point) that only about 25% of people surveyed who claim Christianity as their belief system; state they take the Bible seriously enough to try and consistently follow what it says.

    Now of course that's just people who's convictions govern their behavior; and I've known people of other religions (or no religion at all) who's convictions govern their behavior positively in aspects of morals and ethics.

    What's internally the measure of true faith of those claiming to be Christians? God only sees the heart.

    And I do believe that there are people who've actually never heard of Jesus who've been atoned for; in which the revelation that caused / causes them to "believe God" they came to recognize through the witness of the creation; (as opposed to the witness of the written revelation of Scripture which they may have had incomplete or no knowledge of at all).
     
  15. ChristopherHays

    ChristopherHays Member

    180
    +81
    United States
    Agnostic
    Private
    My guess is 0. I would think a God willing to throw 6 billion people into a fiery hell forever may not be fun to worship 24/7. I could never enjoy paradise knowing my friends and family were being tortured, so it wouldn’t be paradise at all. My opinion is either everyone goes or it doesn’t exist. I’m inclined to think it doesn’t exist, but there’s no telling what paradise we could make with this life if we tried. We’ve already doubled our lifespans. Who knows how long a person could live with just a few more breakthroughs. We’re 3D printing functional organs and developing AI right now that could be the answer. The first immortal humans could be born this century. Religion is no longer the only hope for eternity in paradise. We just have to work together and keep pushing forward into a better and better tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  16. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

    +914
    United States
    Reformed
    Widowed
    Everyone deserves God's wrath; so I'm grateful He had mercy on some!

    It doesn't matter if your right; it only matters if I'm right.
     
  17. ChristopherHays

    ChristopherHays Member

    180
    +81
    United States
    Agnostic
    Private
    Does everyone really deserve God’s wrath? I know that’s commonly said in Christian circles, but actually think about it for a minute. Would you rescue a dog and then light it on fire if it didn’t play fetch? None of us asked to be born into this test, we don’t deserve wrath if we fail.



    It actually matters allot. You may be putting your hope in the wrong things when you could be contributing to the betterment of reality.
     
  18. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +9,018
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    God is holy and it does not matter what man thinks.
    It's his salvation plan not ours.
    M-Bob
     
  19. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

    +914
    United States
    Reformed
    Widowed
    Yes they do!

    More accurate question:

    Would you execute a pedophile that raped, murdered and dismembered your 5 year old?

    Does that child not deserve justice? People have a tendency to try and justify and minimize the impact of their sin; but yes, it’s that horrible!

    Scripture answers your accusation of “None of us asked to be born into this test.” That still doesn’t change the fact that we are.

    “Who are you a man that replies against God? Shall not the potter have power over the clay; to make one lump on the honor and another unto dishonor?“

    And who’s to say that I’m not contributing to the betterment of the here and now?

    If I put my Hope in something that ultimately doesn’t exist; that doesn’t affect anything. I die and that’s the end.

    But if I’m right and there really is a day of reckoning coming; than you’re in trouble.

    Again, doesn’t matter if you’re right; it only matters if I’m right!
     
  20. ChristopherHays

    ChristopherHays Member

    180
    +81
    United States
    Agnostic
    Private
    Are you saying I’m comparable to a child rapist? That’s unbelievably insulting! Not believing in something without proper evidence is NOT comparable to child molestation. What about the 5 year olds that die from god given illness before they’ve “repented”? Do they deserve eternal punishment? You know the funny thing about your analogy is the Israelites were actually child rapists according to Deuteronomy. Also, the child molester in your story is going to be in heaven instead of the little girl if he says the magic words before he dies and she doesn’t. That’s not justice at all!




    Christians put a ton of time and money into evangelizing. If they’re wrong than all those trillions of dollars and hours could’ve been used for something real. I think we could make this life pretty close to paradise, but it’ll never happen if we’re only focused on mythical paradises.



    But if I’m right and Santa really is coming; than you’re getting coal.
     
Loading...