How many are saved?

[Steve97]

I never doubt my own salvation. I guess my answer to the question is one.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

WARNING

Matthew 7:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Danthemailman]

WARNING

Matthew 7:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes and notice in verse 22 what these many people were trusting in for salvation and it wasn't Christ alone. Notice also in verse 23 that Jesus NEVER knew them. Sobering words for "nominal" Christians who trust in works for salvation!

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Yes and notice in verse 22 what these many people were trusting in for salvation and it wasn't Christ alone. Notice also in verse 23 that Jesus NEVER knew them. Sobering words for "nominal" Christians who trust in works for salvation!

and it is a warning not to trust all that claim the mantel of Jesus Christ

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Sobering words for "nominal" Christians who trust in works for salvation!

you need to expound on this statement of works in light of the following verses.

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

What are you talking about? Salvation through faith in Jesus Christ is the narrow road. Do you realize how many "professing" Christians trust in works (at least in part) for salvation and how many false religions and cults there are in the world? Those who truly trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation are few in number indeed.

By far
you apparently missed the point
no problem.
M

 

[Danthemailman]

you need to expound on this statement of works in light of the following verses.

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In regards to James 2:18-20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. Again, f someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

Nominal Christians/unbelievers can still produce works, yet without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many so called wonderful works that unbelievers set out to conjure up in a vain effort o obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23)

 

[Danthemailman]

By far
you apparently missed the point
no problem.
M

Then feel free to clarify.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I like to look at Works as a byproduct.

Wide road going Down could be
4 lanes going down?

Narrow road
1 lane going up?

No one knows for sure but,
Jesus mentioned hell a lot.

M-Bob

 

[Danthemailman]

I like to look at Works as a byproduct.
M-Bob

Yes, works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of obtaining salvation.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In regards to James 2:18-20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. Again, f someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

Nominal Christians/unbelievers can still produce works, yet without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many so called wonderful works that unbelievers set out to conjure up in a vain effort o obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23)

Thanks

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Yes, works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of obtaining salvation.

Very true I think.
M-Bob

What did jesus teach nicodemus?

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

web.mit.edu › jywang › www › cef
Bible Gateway John 3 :: NIV - MIT

 

[A_Thinker]

Yes and notice in verse 22 what these many people were trusting in for salvation and it wasn't Christ alone. Notice also in verse 23 that Jesus NEVER knew them. Sobering words for "nominal" Christians who trust in works for salvation!

It wasn't so much that these "claimants" trusted in works ... as it was that they hadn't placed any trust in Christ.

I don't believe that God will withhold His salvation from those who mistakenly put SOME trust in WORKS, ... so long as they have trusted in Christ ...

 

[The Righterzpen]

I've heard that statistically (just from a human stand point) that only about 25% of people surveyed who claim Christianity as their belief system; state they take the Bible seriously enough to try and consistently follow what it says.

Now of course that's just people who's convictions govern their behavior; and I've known people of other religions (or no religion at all) who's convictions govern their behavior positively in aspects of morals and ethics.

What's internally the measure of true faith of those claiming to be Christians? God only sees the heart.

And I do believe that there are people who've actually never heard of Jesus who've been atoned for; in which the revelation that caused / causes them to "believe God" they came to recognize through the witness of the creation; (as opposed to the witness of the written revelation of Scripture which they may have had incomplete or no knowledge of at all).

 

[ChristopherHays]

My guess is 0. I would think a God willing to throw 6 billion people into a fiery hell forever may not be fun to worship 24/7. I could never enjoy paradise knowing my friends and family were being tortured, so it wouldn’t be paradise at all. My opinion is either everyone goes or it doesn’t exist. I’m inclined to think it doesn’t exist, but there’s no telling what paradise we could make with this life if we tried. We’ve already doubled our lifespans. Who knows how long a person could live with just a few more breakthroughs. We’re 3D printing functional organs and developing AI right now that could be the answer. The first immortal humans could be born this century. Religion is no longer the only hope for eternity in paradise. We just have to work together and keep pushing forward into a better and better tomorrow.

 

[The Righterzpen]

I could never enjoy paradise knowing my friends and family were being tortured, so it wouldn’t be paradise at all.

Everyone deserves God's wrath; so I'm grateful He had mercy on some!

My opinion is either everyone goes or it doesn’t exist. I’m inclined to think it doesn’t exist,

It doesn't matter if your right; it only matters if I'm right.

 

[ChristopherHays]

Everyone deserves God's wrath; so I'm grateful He had mercy on some!

Does everyone really deserve God’s wrath? I know that’s commonly said in Christian circles, but actually think about it for a minute. Would you rescue a dog and then light it on fire if it didn’t play fetch? None of us asked to be born into this test, we don’t deserve wrath if we fail.

It doesn't matter if your right; it only matters if I'm right.

It actually matters allot. You may be putting your hope in the wrong things when you could be contributing to the betterment of reality.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Would you rescue a dog and then light it on fire if it didn’t play fetch? None of us asked to be born into this test, we don’t deserve wrath if we fail.





It actually matters allot. You may be putting your hope in the wrong things when you could be contributing to the betterment of reality.

God is holy and it does not matter what man thinks.
It's his salvation plan not ours.
M-Bob

 

[The Righterzpen]

Does everyone really deserve God’s wrath?

Yes they do!

Would you rescue a dog and then light it on fire if it didn’t play fetch? None of us asked to be born into this test, we don’t deserve wrath if we fail.

More accurate question:

Would you execute a pedophile that raped, murdered and dismembered your 5 year old?

Does that child not deserve justice? People have a tendency to try and justify and minimize the impact of their sin; but yes, it’s that horrible!

Scripture answers your accusation of “None of us asked to be born into this test.” That still doesn’t change the fact that we are.

“Who are you a man that replies against God? Shall not the potter have power over the clay; to make one lump on the honor and another unto dishonor?“

It actually matters allot. You may be putting your hope in the wrong things when you could be contributing to the betterment of reality.

And who’s to say that I’m not contributing to the betterment of the here and now?

If I put my Hope in something that ultimately doesn’t exist; that doesn’t affect anything. I die and that’s the end.

But if I’m right and there really is a day of reckoning coming; than you’re in trouble.

Again, doesn’t matter if you’re right; it only matters if I’m right!

 

[ChristopherHays]

More accurate question:

Would you execute a pedophile that raped, murdered and dismembered your 5 year old?

Are you saying I’m comparable to a child rapist? That’s unbelievably insulting! Not believing in something without proper evidence is NOT comparable to child molestation. What about the 5 year olds that die from god given illness before they’ve “repented”? Do they deserve eternal punishment? You know the funny thing about your analogy is the Israelites were actually child rapists according to Deuteronomy. Also, the child molester in your story is going to be in heaven instead of the little girl if he says the magic words before he dies and she doesn’t. That’s not justice at all!

And who’s to say that I’m not contributing to the betterment of the here and now? If I put my Hope in something that ultimately doesn’t exist; that doesn’t affect anything.

Christians put a ton of time and money into evangelizing. If they’re wrong than all those trillions of dollars and hours could’ve been used for something real. I think we could make this life pretty close to paradise, but it’ll never happen if we’re only focused on mythical paradises.

But if I’m right and there really is a day of reckoning coming; than you’re in trouble.

But if I’m right and Santa really is coming; than you’re getting coal.