How is it consistent to criticize the left for hating America AND not having an objective morality ?

[Ken-1122]

So you learned your nature?

Learning is a part of my nature. As I experience life, it is natural for me to learn and form opinions concerning my experiences.

No. I just try not to allow myself to be goaded into theological discussions.

Isn't claiming I am in your God's image a theological discussion?

Christians given a command to make disciples of all nations. This is done by proclaiming the gospel. I’m being obedient.

Well just recognize your obedience will lead to challenges.

 

[Hammster]

Learning is a part of my nature. As I experience life, it is natural for me to learn and form opinions concerning my experiences.

Where did that nature come from?

Isn't claiming I am in your God's image a theological discussion?

It’s a statement.

Well just recognize your obedience will lead to challenges.

Okay.

 

[Bradskii]

Natural processes aren’t a “Him”.

Quite right. Nature isn't a deity. Glad we sorted that out.

 

[Hammster]

Quite right. Nature isn't a deity. Glad we sorted that out.

Then stop borrowing from my worldview.

 

[Ken-1122]

Where did that nature come from?

It is the result of my ability to learn.

 

[Hammster]

It is the result of my ability to learn.

So let’s say that your parents used and sold meth, and encouraged you to use and sell meth. Would that be good because it was how you were raised?

 

[Ken-1122]

So let’s say that your parents used and sold meth, and encouraged you to use and sell meth. Would that be good because it was how you were raised?

No.

 

[Hammster]

No.

But you said

It is a part of the empathy I have; something I've learned as I grew up.

This implied that your morals came from your parents. So why wouldn’t you think your parents were right?

 

[Ken-1122]

But you said


This implied that your morals came from your parents. So why wouldn’t you think your parents were right?

I've learned a lot in my lifetime; not all of it from my parents.

 

[Hammster]

I've learned a lot in my lifetime; not all of it from my parents.

How do you determine the good stuff from the bad (keeping in mind that you have to borrow from my worldview to even have a right/wrong category).

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't even understand the objection. Are you saying that 'the left' are proving that they have objective morality by hating America? I don't see how the two things are related.

And anyway, no one has objective morality. Claiming "God says it's wrong, so it's wrong" is just as subjective as claiming "I believe it is wrong, and so it's wrong." I believe that what my fellow Christians usually mean when they say that atheists lack objective morality is that, in comparison to those who believe in God, Whose thoughts and ways are not like ours (i.e., Who exists outside of mankind's shifting notions of morality, as the eternal "Just Judge"), atheists lack a belief in the concept of an eternal, unchanging standard of what is right and wrong. Whether or not you need to believe in God in order to have such a standard is above my paygrade to speculate on, but I could see how a religious person like your average western Christian (or even just a person raised in a western/post-Christian society) could come away with that impression, given a certain way of looking at history and human motivation absent some kind of rightly-feared corrective force or thing (which is what God is to a lot of religious people).

Western Christianity has this notion of "instrumental reason" that gets it into alot of trouble. It's why so many western Christians are in a veritable panic about post-modernism, because finally some Frenchmen call out the emperor for having no clothes.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Western Christianity has this notion of "instrumental reason" that gets it into alot of trouble. It's why so many western Christians are in a veritable panic about post-modernism, because finally some Frenchmen call out the emperor for having no clothes.

That's partly true. It's also partly true that the East tends to rely too much on mysticism.

 

[Ken-1122]

How do you determine the good stuff from the bad

How do you determine the good stuff from the bad (keeping in mind that you have to borrow from my worldview to even have a right/wrong category).

(keeping in mind that you have to borrow from my worldview to even have a right/wrong category).

Are you assuming because you borrow from someone else’s worldview, that I borrow from yours? Let me put it this way; I don’t need a worldview in order to have a right/wrong category.

 

[Hammster]

How do you determine the good stuff from the bad (keeping in mind that you have to borrow from my worldview to even have a right/wrong category).

Are you assuming because you borrow from someone else’s worldview, that I borrow from yours? Let me put it this way; I don’t need a worldview in order to have a right/wrong category.

Then answer the question. How do you determine right from wrong?

 

[Ken-1122]

Then answer the question. How do you determine right from wrong?

I base in on my opinion concerning the issue.

 

[Hammster]

I base in on my opinion concerning the issue.

Alright. If you don’t want to answer, that’s fine.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's partly true. It's also partly true that the East tends to rely too much on mysticism.

Are you familiar with the ideas of Clare Graves? He suggested mysticism is the future of human civilization.

I would argue the Eastern Christian world hasn't really had an opportunity to contribute much to wider Christian thought, outside of the interests of some academics and a few clergy in the Anglican world. Mostly they've been struggling under the yoke of the Turks/Arabs or the Soviet Union and its aftermath (and Duginism is no help here as it is rooted more in a more Asiatic/Mongol "Eurasianism" than actual Christianity).

 

[FireDragon76]

Did you really think I thought He has spoken to people? Please...I'm an atheist. I know that when people say that God has guided them then they are wrong. So you are missing the point being made by a country mile. It's what they BELIEVE they have been told. If they BELIEVE He has commanded them to do something. That's what we are talking about. What that belief might cause them to do.

Otherwise sane people have religious or spiritual experiences. The old notion that all religious people are just mentally ill, delusional, or engaged in wishful thinking simply isn't suggested by the evidence.

 

[Astrid]

Actually, I know that atheists can and do believe murder is wrong. They just don’t have an objective reason for believing it.

Neither do you nor does anyone.

 

[Astrid]

Atheist can say there is no God yet have no answer as to why they know murder is wrong. Its like all were given a compass and you lean over say "hey wheres' yours pointing to?" Then the game starts. "what are you talking about?" So you say "your compass your holding?" they answer "what compass?" You just smile walk away.

NF a rapper "Oh lord" Song
It's easy to blame God but harder to fix things
We look in the sky like, "why ain't You listening?"
Watching the news in our living rooms on the big screens
And talking 'bout "if God's really real, then where is He?"
You see the same God that you saying might not even exist
Becomes real to us, but only when we dying in bed
When ya healthy it's like, we don't really care for Him then
Leave me alone God, I'll call you when I need you again
Which is funny, everyone will sleep in the pews
Then blame God for our problems like He sleeping on you
We turn our backs on Him, what do you expect Him to do?
It's hard to answer prayers when nobody's praying to you
I look around at this world we walk on
It's a smack in the face, don't ever tell me there's no God
And if there isn't then what are we here for?
And what are y'all doing down there? I don't know Lord

Wrong.