How is it consistent to criticize the left for hating America AND not having an objective morality ?

[perplexed]

I am not being cute, I honestly don't get it.
I get attacked for saying I think murder is wrong but I don't think murder is objectively wrong.
I am told I cannot really think murder is wrong if I don't think there is a God that objects to murder.
After attacking me the same person will make complaints about the people that "Hate America" and it is clear that someone that
thinks "Atheists cannot really believe murder is wrong because they cannot believe anything" do actually think "Atheists believe America is wrong"

 

[grasping the after wind]

Where do you see the inconsistency in the criticism? I can't see that criticism as inconsistent. Hating America and not having an objective morality can exist simultaneously. To hate has nothing to do with considering something to be objectively or subjectively wrong. Hate is irrational and considering things to be wrong either subjectively or objectively would be a subjective calculation or adherence to an objective authority. Both those things are rational conclusions.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I am not being cute, I honestly don't get it.
I get attacked for saying I think murder is wrong but I don't think murder is objectively wrong.
I am told I cannot really think murder is wrong if I don't think there is a God that objects to murder.
After attacking me the same person will make complaints about the people that "Hate America" and it is clear that someone that
thinks "Atheists cannot really believe murder is wrong because they cannot believe anything" do actually think "Atheists believe America is wrong"

The Bible itself indicates that the unsaved have a natural morality even though they don't know God.

The next time someone says otherwise to you, you should point that out. (See Romans 2:14)

I'm unclear how you are using the word murder though. There is justified killing and there is murder.

Murder involves an innocent party who is unjustly killed. The just/unjust aspect is what makes something murder.

 

[Hammster]

I am not being cute, I honestly don't get it.
I get attacked for saying I think murder is wrong but I don't think murder is objectively wrong.
I am told I cannot really think murder is wrong if I don't think there is a God that objects to murder.
After attacking me the same person will make complaints about the people that "Hate America" and it is clear that someone that
thinks "Atheists cannot really believe murder is wrong because they cannot believe anything" do actually think "Atheists believe America is wrong"

Actually, I know that atheists can and do believe murder is wrong. They just don’t have an objective reason for believing it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Actually, I know that atheists can and do believe murder is wrong. They just don’t have an objective reason for believing it.

If your God's laws is your objective reasoning for believing murder is wrong, why can't my laws be my objective reasoning for believing murder is wrong?

 

[Hammster]

If your God's laws is your objective reasoning for believing murder is wrong, why can't my laws be my objective reasoning for believing murder is wrong?

Just so I understand, is your position that murder is only wrong because the law says it’s wrong?

 

[perplexed]

Where do you see the inconsistency in the criticism? I can't see that criticism as inconsistent. Hating America and not having an objective morality can exist simultaneously. To hate has nothing to do with considering something to be objectively or subjectively wrong. Hate is irrational and considering things to be wrong either subjectively or objectively would be a subjective calculation or adherence to an objective authority. Both those things are rational conclusions.

I am berated for not thinking murder is objectively wrong because it means it is likely I will just change my mind

Do you think someone that hates america will just change their mind.

 

[Blade]

Atheist can say there is no God yet have no answer as to why they know murder is wrong. Its like all were given a compass and you lean over say "hey wheres' yours pointing to?" Then the game starts. "what are you talking about?" So you say "your compass your holding?" they answer "what compass?" You just smile walk away.

NF a rapper "Oh lord" Song
It's easy to blame God but harder to fix things
We look in the sky like, "why ain't You listening?"
Watching the news in our living rooms on the big screens
And talking 'bout "if God's really real, then where is He?"
You see the same God that you saying might not even exist
Becomes real to us, but only when we dying in bed
When ya healthy it's like, we don't really care for Him then
Leave me alone God, I'll call you when I need you again
Which is funny, everyone will sleep in the pews
Then blame God for our problems like He sleeping on you
We turn our backs on Him, what do you expect Him to do?
It's hard to answer prayers when nobody's praying to you
I look around at this world we walk on
It's a smack in the face, don't ever tell me there's no God
And if there isn't then what are we here for?
And what are y'all doing down there? I don't know Lord

 

[perplexed]

Actually, I know that atheists can and do believe murder is wrong. They just don’t have an objective reason for believing it.

Why some people say that this is a big problem ?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Do you think someone that hates america will just change their mind.

If something changes their minds.. usually once you really know something you can begin to appreciate it for what it is...

I personally think some people have to learn the hard way, aka, they have to experience what it's not to fully appreciate what it is... I think this especially for people who are willing to hand all their freedoms away forever to the highest bidder, I think it's simple ignorance based on never truly experiencing what it's like to have every aspect of your life dictated to you for real...

But I absolutely 100% believe people can, and actually will, come to appreciate America. I just sadly think by then it will be too late.

 

[Hammster]

Why some people say that this is a big problem ?

You’ll have to ask them.

 

[perplexed]

You’ll have to ask them.

??? If you don't care at all why did you even respond to this thread ??

 

[Hammster]

??? If you don't care at all why did you even respond to this thread ??

You made an accusation without any evidence. So I responded to the part that most interested me. Maybe if you back up your claim, we can talk. Basically, your OP is just talking about one person.

 

[Ken-1122]

Just so I understand, is your position that murder is only wrong because the law says it’s wrong?

No. I say murder is illegal because I know there are laws that says murder is illegal. I say murder is wrong because I believe murder to be wrong.

 

[Ken-1122]

Atheist can say there is no God yet have no answer as to why they know murder is wrong.

Are you sure about that? I've talked to lots of atheists and I have yet to meet one who is unable to answer such a simple question. BTW I find it better to be an atheist who knows how to answer such a question, than to be a theist whose only answer is because their God says it's wrong.

 

[Hammster]

No. I say murder is illegal because I know there are laws that says murder is illegal. I say murder is wrong because I believe murder to be wrong.

I know that you believe it. Read my first post again

 

[grasping the after wind]

I am berated for not thinking murder is objectively wrong because it means it is likely I will just change my mind

Do you think someone that hates america will just change their mind.

I don't know what people will do but I find it quite possible that a person that hates America could stop doing so. I don't see inconsistency in holding both opinions. They don't seem to be tethered in any way. I am not an atheist, but I don't see morality as objective I simply treat the moral values that God subjectively arrived at for me to follow as if they were objective. I think many people confuse what I would call convenience morality with subjective morality. The former is a moral code that one chooses in order to always feel morally upright and can change to encompass whatever behavior the chooser wishes to engage in at any particular moment. The latter is a moral code that one arrives at by honestly considering what one finds to be morally upright used a guide for deciding whether one's behavior is morally upright or not. Both are subjective but only one is actually a moral code while the other is rationalization. So, I if one should say murder is not objectively wrong but is, in one's opinion or by one's personal standard of morality or by societal standards or by whatever standard one decides to adhere to, is always wrong and one does not change that opinion because it became inconvenient to adhere to if one murdered someone or wanted to do so, then one is not advocating for convenience morality. If one were to say murder is wrong unless the person being murdered deserves it or I have to murder this person because (place excuse here) so murder now becomes the correct moral road to travel, then one is engaging in convenience morality. Of course, this a is all my personal opinion but i think it fits many situations most of which are much less extreme than murder. What is the point of a moral code if it changes to accommodate any behavior one wishes to engage in.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Are you sure about that? I've talked to lots of atheists and I have yet to meet one who is unable to answer such a simple question. BTW I find it better to be an atheist who knows how to answer such a question, than to be a theist whose only answer is because their God says it's wrong.

I say murder is wrong because the Creator of all that is, decided that it is wrong. What reason would an atheist give to explain to another atheist why murder is wrong? Obviously, the theist already has an answer that will suffice theists in all cases i.e. God says it's wrong and God has the authority to decide these matters by virtue of being the Creator and owner of all there is and being the wiser and superior being in this relationship.

 

[perplexed]

You made an accusation without any evidence. So I responded to the part that most interested me. Maybe if you back up your claim, we can talk. Basically, your OP is just talking about one person.

Why does it interest you

 

[Bradskii]

I say murder is wrong because the Creator of all that is, decided that it is wrong.

So if He decided that it was right then it would be. Then you'd say 'murder is right'.

Now I've a good idea what you might say next. Which is 'God wouldn't actually decide that'. Which means that you have personally decided that murder is wrong and you don't believe that God would say something that you think is so obviously wrong.