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How I know there is no God

Crujir

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But people can misunderstand him.
"But ye have an unction from the Holy One and ye know all things." 1 John 2:20.

Th Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth regardless of how much people try to deceive you. But you only know what you NEED to know. For example, I don't know the colour of Wiccan's hair, nor do I need to know; it is irrelevant. But if you study God's word, and pray for constant understanding, He will help you understand everything you need to. Have faith, pray, let not the enemy deceive you, and you will be led into all truth and you won't have to worry about misunderstanding.

On top of that, I think that the verse that says no man can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Ghost is pretty clear. I'm not putting you down :) just pointing it out.
 
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phsyxx

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"But ye have an unction from the Holy One and ye know all things." 1 John 2:20.

Th Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth regardless of how much people try to deceive you. But you only know what you NEED to know. For example, I don't know the colour of Wiccan's hair, nor do I need to know; it is irrelevant. But if you study God's word, and pray for constant understanding, He will help you understand everything you need to. Have faith, pray, let not the enemy deceive you, and you will be led into all truth and you won't have to worry about misunderstanding.

On top of that, I think that the verse that says no man can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Ghost is pretty clear. I'm not putting you down :) just pointing it out.


Right, what I don't get here is that you can quote the Bible to back-up/prove your point
Muslims can quote the Qu'ran to prove their point
Jewish people can quote the Torah to prove their point
Hindus can quote Tantras
Buddhists the Buddha
Sikhs the Guru Granth Sahib.

So, does that make your point any less valid?
Or does it just mean you could make just as good a point without backing it up with scripture?
I mean, if what you say is sensible and is right - no-one would question it if they couldn't find a relevant verse in the Bible
 
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DoubtingThomas29

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I like what you said at the end physxx, if what you say is reasonable and right and people cannot find a bible verse that backs it up, people wouldn't question you being right if we all agreed it was right.

It is just superstious to say a person cannot say "Jesus is Lord" a not mean it. Religion is full of superstions like this that cause people to like turn off their brain and believe contradictions, and no amount of reasoning can undue this delusion.

The problems from religion make up a long list.

Take care,

Thomas
 
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Wiccan_Child

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"But ye have an unction from the Holy One and ye know all things." 1 John 2:20.

Th Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth regardless of how much people try to deceive you.
Which puts the whole notion of Christian denominations into an interesting light. If God leads to truth, then there should be no disagreements (minor quibbles aside).

But you only know what you NEED to know. For example, I don't know the colour of Wiccan's hair, nor do I need to know; it is irrelevant. But if you study God's word, and pray for constant understanding, He will help you understand everything you need to. Have faith, pray, let not the enemy deceive you, and you will be led into all truth and you won't have to worry about misunderstanding.
So why are there so many incompatible Christian belief systems?

On top of that, I think that the verse that says no man can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Ghost is pretty clear. I'm not putting you down :) just pointing it out.
The problem with the verse is that there is no objective test to verify it's claims. You may believe it's true, but there's no reason to believe it.
 
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Crujir

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The problem with the verse is that there is no objective test to verify it's claims. You may believe it's true, but there's no reason to believe it.

I have witnessed it. More than once. You cannot convince me otherwise. God has witnessed to me things you wouldn't believe if I showed you a documentary, because you are close minded. Often the reason one denies God is because they refuse to understand. As soon as a point comes up, a wall of pride comes up and denial takes over.

A lot of the problems in different churches or systems established by Christians today come from pride. They don't operate in the Spirit; they operate in "I think" and "I feel." And in continuing to operate like that, they will not be led into truth because they want things their own way. God doesn't care about what you think about His word, or what you feel about it. Its about trust. Without trust, you won't get a thing from God; even understanding and truth.

Like I said, claiming to be an unbeliever is the result of wanting to hide. For example, the word of God says that homosexuality is wrong. But I garuntee that as soon as a preacher starts talking about it, if there is a homosexual in the crowd, that individual is going to get offended. He will probably lash out in anger and try to put himself up on a pedestal. Why? Because he knows the truth already, and he doesn't want it to be true so he can be right. Its that simple. Every time we screw up, little or big, we want to hide it because we are ashamed. And when the truth comes out, if we have the opportunity, we will often twist the truth or completely deny it. That's how atheism works; "I don't want to be wrong. I don't like that the Bible says what I am doing is wrong, so I'll just assume its not true so I can be right." Personally, there are a lot of things that I don't like to be told is wrong, but I have to know its wrong and be obedient, otherwise everything around me starts falling apart, because I strayed from God and His word.

I've see this all the time. And I've dealt with so many people on such a level that I cannot count. And because of their pride, once I reveal to them the truth, they still deny it. No one likes to be wrong; it takes an honest, humble person to step forward and say "Okay I was wrong..." Its the crappiest feeling in the world, but its worth it because God will rejoice with you, and anyone who really loves you will forgive you and respect you. I myself have a lot of pride, and I screw up a lot. This results in me being in a lot of turmoil, because my flesh and mind want me to give in and lie, while my heart and spirit are crying out for me to tell the truth. And sometimes I still don't do the right thing; I'm human and I'm no better than anyone else.

God works in amazing ways; you just have to have a little trust.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Forgive me for dissecting your post, but there was something to say to almost every sentence.

I have witnessed it.
You have witnessed... what? Someone saying Jesus is Lord? So have I. But what makes you so sure they were being serious?

You cannot convince me otherwise.
I'm not entirely sure what you claim to have witnessed.

God has witnessed to me things you wouldn't believe if I showed you a documentary, because you are close minded.
Close-minded? Not at all. Show me a reason to believe, and I will believe.

Often the reason one denies God is because they refuse to understand.
Understand... what? You are making nebulous claims that smack of self-righteous indignation.

As soon as a point comes up, a wall of pride comes up and denial takes over.
Please, tell me where this has happened. I gladly swallow my pride if the evidence suggests other than what I what I believe.

A lot of the problems in different churches or systems established by Christians today come from pride. They don't operate in the Spirit; they operate in "I think" and "I feel." And in continuing to operate like that, they will not be led into truth because they want things their own way. God doesn't care about what you think about His word, or what you feel about it. Its about trust. Without trust, you won't get a thing from God; even understanding and truth.
So anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, yes?

Like I said, claiming to be an unbeliever is the result of wanting to hide.
Hide from what? An unbeliever by definition is someone who doesn't believe: how can someone hide from something they don't believe in?
You do not believe in Vishnu. Are you hiding from him?

For example, the word of God says that homosexuality is wrong.
In the English translation written by homophobic men, yes. In the original text, no.

But I garuntee that as soon as a preacher starts talking about it, if there is a homosexual in the crowd, that individual is going to get offended. He will probably lash out in anger and try to put himself up on a pedestal.
I have only ever seen that happen at equal right parades, and even then such violence is instigated by the homophobes. Perhaps you need to meet some gay people and see that they aren't all troubled and violent individuals?

Why? Because he knows the truth already, and he doesn't want it to be true so he can be right. Its that simple.
Simple? Yes. Correct? No. If I were in Church and the Priest was condemning homosexuality, I wouldn't make a scene. He is entitled to believe what he wants. I would disagree with him, and consider him a close-minded bigot, but I would only voice my opinions in private.

Every time we screw up, little or big, we want to hide it because we are ashamed. And when the truth comes out, if we have the opportunity, we will often twist the truth or completely deny it.
In your culture, perhaps. In mine, we take responsibility for our actions.

That's how atheism works; "I don't want to be wrong. I don't like that the Bible says what I am doing is wrong, so I'll just assume its not true so I can be right."
Absolute nonsense. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in deities. The Bible, the Qu'ran, the Vedic texts, all are just pieces of literature to them. Why should they care if Muslims condemn their behaviour?

Personally, there are a lot of things that I don't like to be told is wrong, but I have to know its wrong and be obedient, otherwise everything around me starts falling apart, because I strayed from God and His word.
Tell me, which translation do you use, and why?

I've see this all the time. And I've dealt with so many people on such a level that I cannot count.
*cough* stereotype *cough*

And because of their pride, once I reveal to them the truth, they still deny it.
Maybe, just maybe, it's because they're not convinced? If I revealed the Truth as depicted by the Bahá'u'lláh, and you denied it, would I be right in called you prideful and just clinging to the Bible so that you won't be deemed wrong?
Or would it be that you are simply of another faith, that you don't believe in the writings of the Bahá'u'lláh

No one likes to be wrong; it takes an honest, humble person to step forward and say "Okay I was wrong..." Its the crappiest feeling in the world,
Agreed. Of course, one only needs to go through this when one is shown to be wrong. Just stating that the other party is wrong is as pointless as them stating you are wrong.

God works in amazing ways; you just have to have a little trust.
Zeus works in amazing ways. You just have to have a little trust. So why don't you?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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The lost just wont get it. We have spoken truth, we have given them the light. Jesus can only save though. He can only fill them with the holy spirit. He knows their hearts, he knows if they reject him. therefore he doesn't reveal himself to the ones who want no part in him.
Ironically, almost all humans would believe if only he would reveal himself. There is no reason to believe, so why are you surprised that most people don't?
 
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NavyGuy7

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Right, what I don't get here is that you can quote the Bible to back-up/prove your point
Muslims can quote the Qu'ran to prove their point
Jewish people can quote the Torah to prove their point
Hindus can quote Tantras
Buddhists the Buddha
Sikhs the Guru Granth Sahib.

So, does that make your point any less valid?
Or does it just mean you could make just as good a point without backing it up with scripture?
I mean, if what you say is sensible and is right - no-one would question it if they couldn't find a relevant verse in the Bible

You forget that the Bible has not been disproven. The Torah is merely the first half of the Bible, as well, as they don't believe the NT to be true. Hindus... I have no idea what a Tantra is. Buddha was a man, and not divine. And the sahib thing I have no idea what that is.. lol. Not to mention the Quran can be disproven from what they say Islam is. They say Islam is a religion of peace, but it is one of war. I mean, I don't take too kindly to a verse that says to "kill the infidels wherever you may find them". I don't think that's very peaceful.
 
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NavyGuy7

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Ironically, almost all humans would believe if only he would reveal himself. There is no reason to believe, so why are you surprised that most people don't?

But I don't think it would be a heartfelt belief, like they would only follow him out fear and a sense of no choice. God doesn't want that, he only wants those who WANT to follow him. :D Besides, when he does reveal himself, it will be too late. Second coming and all, you know.
 
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LovesEnduringPromise

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Um God does reveal himself, through creation, his word, his people. God is in our hearts if we would just take the chance to find him and seek him, open up our hearts to him, let our coldness toward him melt....
He will coem again for a second time, and you will see all the glory, in the bible it says we will weep for what we have done at his sight....
 
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Crujir

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I have witnessed that people who do not believe cannot say Jesus is Lord.

I did not say all homosexuals were violent people; it was an example though of how humans work. If we are dong something wrong, naturally we are ashamed. And if we want to be right, if someone says its wrong, we will try to justify by trying to change the truth or deny it. "In the original text, no. The the translation written by homophobic men, yes." That would be an example of justification.

See, you automatically assumed that the preacher would be homophobic just because he was preaching the truth. I don't condone homosexuality; but I have homosexual friends and I care for them no less than any other. They are still people to me and still my friends. Does that make me a homphobe?

Truth is light, and darkness hates light. When we speak the truth, if one is covered in darkness, BAM he wants to hide, because his conscience convicts him when the word of God comes around. THAT is what the non believer hides from; the TRUTH, because it exposes what is under his darkness. All his sins, drinking, drugging, sleeping around or whatever are shown to be wrong by the word of God and he doesn't want it to be so. That is the wall of pride for the atheist.

You want physical proof, but how can you assume that God is a physical being! The word of God says in the book of John that "God is a spirit..." Many many times are we shown that God is not a creation or an earthly thing like us. "This was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in Heaven."

When He reveals Himself to this world again, it will be too late for those who have not chosen Him in the due time given.
 
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DoubtingThomas29

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Here approach the problem this way.

We can count on the fact that this week a child was killed by a stray bullet from a drive by shooting. Why did that child die?

Why are three year olds run over by buses if God is suppose to be benevolent? Shouldn't God protect children from dying prematurely?

Isn't God suppose to protect you Crujuir and Loves Enduring Promise from harm. Isn't God suppose to reward you with a long life on the Earth for honoring your mother and Father as promised in the ten commandments?

So why is it, some where some how a little child who did nothing to nobody, let alone God, had to die this week?

Why would your God let that happen?

If you think rationally about this problem, then you can start to heal your delusion.

This is an important problem you have to answer it.

:tutu:
 
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NavyGuy7

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Here approach the problem this way.

We can count on the fact that this week a child was killed by a stray bullet from a drive by shooting. Why did that child die?

Why are three year olds run over by buses if God is suppose to be benevolent? Shouldn't God protect children from dying prematurely?

Isn't God suppose to protect you Crujuir and Loves Enduring Promise from harm. Isn't God suppose to reward you with a long life on the Earth for honoring your mother and Father as promised in the ten commandments?

So why is it, some where some how a little child who did nothing to nobody, let alone God, had to die this week?

Why would your God let that happen?

If you think rationally about this problem, then you can start to heal your delusion.

This is an important problem you have to answer it.

:tutu:

Wow. I haven't seen this card played in a while. The "children" card, to be exact. Low blow, low blow. What's funny, though, is you call it a delusion. Don't be so arrogant. If YOU thought things through logically, you would see that this world is not exactly a tea party. Life sucks. Yes, sometimes the innocent die, and evil lives. But that does not disprove anything about God. You cannot prove God is lacking in mercy or compassion. And if people, yes PEOPLE, were more responsible and didn't go around shooting others for the heck of it, maybe less children would die. So I would think the problem is people, not anything God did or didn't do. Think the facts over, before making wild accusations that you can't back up.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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But I don't think it would be a heartfelt belief, like they would only follow him out fear and a sense of no choice.
Fear of what? There is direct objective evidence for Jesus' existance. The theology behind it all is incidental; if one believe that one must fear Jesus to believe in him, fine. But in our hypothetical scenario, all that is known is that Jesus exists. Where does fear come in?

God doesn't want that, he only wants those who WANT to follow him. :D
Then explain why, according to Christian doctrine, we have the following scenario:
  • You have a gun to your head.
    • If you do what the trigger-happy gunman says, you'll live.
    • If you don't, you'll be shot.
Now, you have a choice, that is undeniable: you can cooperate, or not. The consequences are clear: survive and be shot, respectively.
You have a chioce, but your choice is heavily biased.

The same is true for the Christian 'gift' of 'salvation': it is entirely up to the believer whether she accepts the gift or not, but when one has a gun to one's head, one's choices are somewhat biased.

Besides, when he does reveal himself, it will be too late. Second coming and all, you know.
How convenient.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Wow. I haven't seen this card played in a while. The "children" card, to be exact. Low blow, low blow. What's funny, though, is you call it a delusion. Don't be so arrogant. If YOU thought things through logically, you would see that this world is not exactly a tea party. Life sucks. Yes, sometimes the innocent die, and evil lives. But that does not disprove anything about God. You cannot prove God is lacking in mercy or compassion. And if people, yes PEOPLE, were more responsible and didn't go around shooting others for the heck of it, maybe less children would die. So I would think the problem is people, not anything God did or didn't do. Think the facts over, before making wild accusations that you can't back up.
So the fact that you believe in:
  • An entity that can do anything logically possible (omnipotent),
  • An entity that knows everything logically knowable (omiscient), and
  • An entity that is basically love incarnate (omnibenevolent).
And the fact that:
  • Evil (the thing an ominbenevolence want's to eradicate at all costs) exists.
Isn't a problem for you?

It isn't a problem that you believe in an entity that can do anything it wants (within logic), that wants only good/loving things, that wants the non-existance of non-good/non-loving things, and that knows everything?
 
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Crujir

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Crujir

I would appreciate it if you replied to my post before posting things that verge on the spammage.
You know, its come to a point where it doesn't do any good. You want to blame God/your assumed non-existence of God for everything that happens. You want things YOUR way. Just because God doesn't do things that way WE think He should doesn't mean He isn't there. He IS going to eradicate evil, and He IS going to bring justice to all. Whether this is the reward of eternal life or eternal death is entirely up to the individual. He will do things in HIS time, NOT yours.

Once again, if a King's word is SUPREME, then WHO can say, "What are you doing?" God is above all things, including yours and mine understanding of anything we can consider righteous. If God sets the ultimate standard of right and wrong, then you and I are no one to judge. Those who defy will reap the consequences, and often these are daily consequences of our negative choices.

I suppose there isn't much left to be said; trying to get through something that is seemingly impenetrable really does no good. Considering that, why are you still here? You certainly aren't helping anyone, or even attempting to do so. Even if you finally deceive somebody into believing what you say, it certainly isn't going to get you anywhere in this life and definitely not the one after, which you assume isn't there anyway.

I carry on in my ministry because of the love that Jesus showed me. I now do my best to show that love to other people, and bring them to the Lord. That gives me a purpose for what I do; I help them and God will reward me accordingly. God is a bringer of light and hope, and who are you to destroy people's hope? Talk about morality.
 
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phsyxx

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Wow. I haven't seen this card played in a while. The "children" card, to be exact. Low blow, low blow. What's funny, though, is you call it a delusion. Don't be so arrogant. If YOU thought things through logically, you would see that this world is not exactly a tea party. Life sucks. Yes, sometimes the innocent die, and evil lives. But that does not disprove anything about God. .

Here's where I have a problem with what you say.

Yes - yes it does directly affect the position of God.

You see, the Christian God is :
benevolent
omnipotent
omniscient

and yet - evil quite clearly exists in the world.
You even say it yourself "innocent die, and evil lives" -
so what does that do to God?
Well, an all-loving God wouldn't want his creation to come to any harm.
An all-knowing, all-loving God would know about any suffering that would occur, and wouldn't want any of it to happen.
An all-powerful, all-loving God wouldn't want his creation hurt, and would have the power to stop it.

But you see, problem is -
if God knows and has the power - he can't be all-loving

because evil exists.

If God has the power and is loving, then God can't know
because evil exists.

If God is loving and knows, then God can't have the power,
because evil exists.


THIS is how the problem presented by doubting Thomas causes problems in belief in the Christian God.
Please, don't overlook it.
 
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