How I know there is no God

[Crujir]

Crujir, I think you've caused me more suffering reading that than God has in my entire life.

You chose to read it. I didn't CAUSE you any suffering; I did not MAKE you read it. Maybe that kind of view is where your problem with God is. Maybe you need to open your mind and soften your heart a little bit. Your past hurts have caused you to harden your heart so much that it seems nothing will ever get through.

Throw away your pride for just one moment and really listen; let something being said touch your heart and you will feel the difference; the peace and joy. Quit deflecting everything we say and hiding behind the mask of "God isn't real." God loves you, and doesn't WANT you to hurt, but you keep feeding your own hurt by hardening your heart. Pain can't get out, love can't get in.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Physx,

Thank you for pointing out the problem of God and Evil to Navy Guy. This I think gets over looked too much by these feel good christians.

When I try to conceive of the God concept, I have to disard the holy trinity because after all how can God sit at the right hand of God? Further more can God make a bolder so heavy even he can't lift it?

So the only God I can imagine is a really powerful space alien that has genetically engineered himself to never die, like some kind of artifical intelligence an Android, like DATA from Star Trek. He could be all loving, and he could be all knowing, but he couldn't be all powerful, that is about as close to a concept of God I can get, and really is that a God if he is not all powerful and you can't have a personal relationship with him? Also, this android would be the creation of an alien race not the cause of creation, so if he or she or it, is not a creator, then no it can't be a God.

Now for Navy guy, what do you think of the problem of God and evil in the world?

It is okay to think about this stuff, challenge your beliefes see if they stand up to careful scruitiny, and consider maybe just maybe we are nothing more than sophisticated animals. Who have evolved quite a lot over three point three billion years of evolution.

Imagine what life was like before you were born, do you remember what life was like before you were born? That is what it is like when you are dead. Just at peace and oblivious to the world that helped make you.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

You know, its come to a point where it doesn't do any good. You want to blame God/your assumed non-existence of God for everything that happens.

First, I am not an atheist.
Second, I am happy with the knowledge that evil in the world is a product of humanity.
Third, how can one blame something you don't believe in?

You want things YOUR way.

Naturally.

Just because God doesn't do things that way WE think He should doesn't mean He isn't there.

Correct. However, there is no evidence to suggest that he is there.

He IS going to eradicate evil, and He IS going to bring justice to all.

He's taking his sweet time. Why is he content to watch the child starve, the woman be raped, the man be shot?

Whether this is the reward of eternal life or eternal death is entirely up to the individual. He will do things in HIS time, NOT yours.

You seem to think that the Problem of Evil is why I nonbelieve in your god. Not so. I nonbelieve because noone has ever presented evidence to support its existance.

Once again, if a King's word is SUPREME, then WHO can say, "What are you doing?"

Abusrd. Absolutely absurd. Are you a sheep?

God is above all things, including yours and mine understanding of anything we can consider righteous. If God sets the ultimate standard of right and wrong, then you and I are no one to judge. Those who defy will reap the consequences, and often these are daily consequences of our negative choices.

See, I don't believe in your god. Your empty threats and unsupported claims of a supreme soverign deity fall on polite silence: I don't believe your claims.

I suppose there isn't much left to be said; trying to get through something that is seemingly impenetrable really does no good.

I have asked you many question, and you refuse to answer. So yes, there is someone here who is impenetrable, but it isn't me.

Y'see, I will gladly convert to Christianity of my own free will if and only if you give me a reason to. I will gladly believe that your god exists if and only if you give me evidence.

Considering that, why are you still here?

Primarily because I enjoy debating. In this case, however, I just can't let your tripe go unanswered.

You certainly aren't helping anyone, or even attempting to do so.

I am responding to your tripe. I am trying to get you to see the error in your logic.

Even if you finally deceive somebody into believing what you say, it certainly isn't going to get you anywhere in this life

Pray tell, what claims have I made?

and definitely not the one after, which you assume isn't there anyway.

I am Wiccan. I believe in the Summerlands.

I carry on in my ministry because of the love that Jesus showed me. I now do my best to show that love to other people, and bring them to the Lord. That gives me a purpose for what I do; I help them and God will reward me accordingly.

So it's the old carrot and stick, is it? Reward in heaven, otherwise punishment in hell? Pathetic.

God is a bringer of light and hope, and who are you to destroy people's hope? Talk about morality.

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[LovesEnduringPromise]

"Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stonger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed-an accursed brood!" 2 Peter 2:10-14

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Loves Enduring Promise,

Please try to be open minded to non-believers there are over four billion people who do not believe the christian story. We don't think Mary was a virgin and then gave birth, we don't see a reason to believe that.

I had a liberal christian upbringing.

So I believe in abortion, and the institute of marriage. I believe right is right and wrong is wrong, all though not always obvious which is the case, and I know full well two wrongs don't make a right.

It is wrong to judge someone so harshly who really feels sincerely he has figured out the truth to how life originated on the Earth and whether we are immortal. I feel the answer is clear, and I am happy with knowing there is no eternal damnation for the four billion people who are not christian nor will there ever be.

I feel I have done a real good job explaining why atheists have the truth.

The only reason I can think of that you don't agree atheists have the truth is that your prejiduce towards christianity, it is a faith that is handed down from one family member to another. But really that has only propigated bronze age myths and is not good philosophy or good science. We don't have a good reason to believe Jesus came back from the dead or that Mohammed talk to an angle in a cave. Yet there are three point two billion people that adhere to one of these two myths.

Once we see reality we can only come to one rational conclusion and that is to keep the teachings of morality and marriage, and the laws that have come out of religion, but we must recognize that there is no God. To be truly free of religious Dogma, and contorted explanations for a God that seems to not care about humanity.

A God that leaves us to be totally vunerable to our own nuclear weapons and possible astrological disasters is not a God we should worship. The evidence is clear, religion is man made and we can only conclude one thing from all these religious stories, God is man made. We are the product of nature who have to survive in soldiarity with one another.

You see if you take a college astronomy class they can tell you that our Earth was not formed by the hands of God. Our Earth was formed in a solar nebula 4.6 billion years ago where mostly a bunch of iron came together with other metals and elements to make our planet.

This is the twenty first century we can put a man on the moon. We could destroy all life on the planet with a nuclear war. We can conclude that to a very high degree of certainity so high we can't even say what a percent of certainity it would be, but we can say that to about almost total certainity there is no God. We can conclude this base on the evidence we find in the twenty first century, and it is so cool to know, this is the only life we got to worry about. Also, it is just blows my mind away we are infact star dust that has been rearranged by natural processes. It is just amazing to know all of this, and is so cool to talk about.

I love being an atheist, i liked being a christian, but really this is the way to go.

There are no superstions to worry about, what sounds logical is logical, what sounds bogus is bogus.

This is reality religion is man made, and it is cool to know that.

I am astounded, at the sight of all these religious people and they're misguided they don't have the truth, like atheists do.

Remember when those terroists flew those planes into the buildings? They were dead certain they were going to be with God, how is that much different than a christian thinking for sure he'll go to heaven when he dies, or a for a moderate muslim who thinks he'll go to heaven when he dies?

Think about it,

Thomas

 

[Forest]

I feel that we can know apostori there is no God, all though we can't rule him out all together. I feel that a person can't believe religion is man mad and still believe there is a God. There maybe a remote chance that there is a creator, but really a God would have to be one we could have a personal relationship with and he would have to be all loving and all powerful, which obviously isn't the case when you look at the evidence.

This is how I know there is no God, I look at all the religions that have ever existed, and I know all those religions were just stories that people were making up. I don't see how christianity isn't just a different story, given the fact we can't prove God exists and therefore we can't prove any of Jesus miracles actually happened. So God and the Leprchan fall into the same category, we can't prove Leprchans exist and we can't prove God exist, so there you go the two are one in the same, just about. There is not much difference between the two.

So, if we know Mohammed din't listen to an angle in a cave, and we also know that christianity was an oppressed cult for over two hundred years, which does mean we have no good reason to believe Jesus came back from the dead. Then there is half of the believing world right there rejected, the other half pretty much is just made up too, in my opinion.

So there you go if you know religion is man made, then you know God does not exist, the one follows the other.
We know this apostori by looking at religious claims and all those religions and denominations that are out there.

So what are your thoughts?

I am just basically looking for a philosophical debate where we can agree to disagree, but still have a little fun performing mental exercises about how do we know things, either apostori or apriori about the claim of the existance of God, and how do we know different things too. So if you want to jump in and tell me why you don't believe Islam, or why you don't believe Hinduism then we could talk about that too. The debate should be fun for everybody, try not to get offended. Religious beliefes should be just an opinion pretty much.

If someone wanted to believe their dog made the universe, what is wrong with that? Nothing not a thing, obviously we couldn't take him seriously the way we have to with people who are hindu or muslim, but still it is okay to have weird belief like that. If you wanted to think a Leperchan made the universe and he lives in the woods somewhere, there is nothing wrong with that. It is weird, but there is nothing wrong with it.

So what are your thoughts on all this?

My thought is this is all absurd...and completely illogical...no offense intended...

 

[phsyxx]

". They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. " 2 Peter 2:10-14

So much for the teachings of Jesus and "turn the other cheek".

I think Ghandi said it best: "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

 

[LovesEnduringPromise]

How do you know those stories were made up??

If you know right from wrong..then why do you believe in abortion??

 

[LovesEnduringPromise]

Yes they will be paid back harm for the harm they have done. Jesus does tell us to turn the other cheek, we as humans have to demonstrate that everyday. When we are faced with God..on judgment day if you have no received him you are not put in his prescence....say IF there is a God and you stood before him...where else to you expect to go....I mean you didnt believe in him on earth and do you expect him to let you into his kingdom....you have to go out of his sight..and the only place left is hell.....so God is not evil or someone that torments you...you torment yourself....you will pay yourself back what you have done on this earth...it will be your fault...you dont love God, but he loves you...how is that cruel?? You go to hell because YOU CHOSE not to believe....therefore God wants to save you...but you have your freewill..he loves you so much to let you chose your own path....

 

[LovesEnduringPromise]

Mmm no I am not a christian just because it was handed down to me. I grew up catholic and I didnt have a personal relationship with God at all. I didnt care to go to church, I dreaded it. I never prayed....nothing. Then God reveleaed himself to me...no one else did it.....overtime I grew to love God...I used to always wonder as you do 'why would go make me go through the stuff Im going through...why isnt he helping.' But thats selfish..because what I was doing was the cause of my own sin...I live for God now...and I am free from sin...I am saved. So no...Im not brainwashed into this thinking like alot of you think...I came about this on my own...I learned about God MYSELF...he has filled my heart...he has shown himself to me.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

If you know right from wrong..then why do you believe in abortion??

Because not everyone shares your moral code. Is this so hard to understand?

 

[phsyxx]

Mmm no I am not a christian just because it was handed down to me. I grew up catholic and I didnt have a personal relationship with God at all. I didnt care to go to church, I dreaded it. I never prayed....nothing. Then God reveleaed himself to me...no one else did it.....overtime I grew to love God...I used to always wonder as you do 'why would go make me go through the stuff Im going through...why isnt he helping.' But thats selfish..because what I was doing was the cause of my own sin...I live for God now...and I am free from sin...I am saved. So no...Im not brainwashed into this thinking like alot of you think...I came about this on my own...I learned about God MYSELF...he has filled my heart...he has shown himself to me.

Without trying to undermine what you've just said, I'd like to ask you a question -
as in, do you not think sometimes that you psychologically, slipped into a familiar and comforting scenario - as opposed to going to a radically different set of beliefs as to those with which you were brought up?

 

[LovesEnduringPromise]

Without trying to undermine what you've just said, I'd like to ask you a question -
as in, do you not think sometimes that you psychologically, slipped into a familiar and comforting scenario - as opposed to going to a radically different set of beliefs as to those with which you were brought up?

I have had different beliefs at times. No one knew about. It brought me nothing.I thought like most of you thought at times, and a I truly believed it...that God didnt exsist at times....I feed into the lives man has made up...but now I know God, I know he exsists. I know I have eternal dwelling with him.

 

[phsyxx]

I have had different beliefs at times. No one knew about. It brought me nothing.I thought like most of you thought at times, and a I truly believed it...that God didnt exsist at times....I feed into the lives man has made up...but now I know God, I know he exsists. I know I have eternal dwelling with him.

When you say you know, do you mean you have an absolute 100% conviction that he exists?
Or, if you know......please, share with me your wisdom.

 

[LovesEnduringPromise]

When you say you know, do you mean you have an absolute 100% conviction that he exists?
Or, if you know......please, share with me your wisdom.

I know that he exsists. I know by faith. He has shown me he exsists.

 

[phsyxx]

I know that he exsists. I know by faith. He has shown me he exsists.

Right. Cool.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I know that he exsists.

Is it not possible that a sufficiently powerful entity has not just tricked you into thinking that the Judaeo-Christian God exists?

I know by faith.

Faith is trusting the uncertain. How can you know by faith?

He has shown me he exsists.

Objectively? Or just beamed the info into your head?

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Loves Enduring Promise,

It is important to question what we are told, ask how do they know that, what makes them so sure.

Has the priests really considered the possibility of there being no God, or are they so busy learning their dogma they never question it?

Wiccan has asked important questions, please think about them and answer. You will find the answers to be insightful, ask how do we know?

How do I know an Angle did not talk to Mohammed in a cave and was told the Quran? How do I know Jesus didn't come back from the dead?

Think about this, it is really important to gaining the truth and throwing off the delusion of religion, once you see religion is complete superstion, and is man made, there is only one sane position to take, and that is to free yourself of this delusion.

It is a fixed false belief that doesn't stand up to careful scruitiny.

Please answer Wiccan's questions. There important towards figuring out what is going on with the reality we live in.

 

[Crujir]

Once again its people like you who are attempting to destroy peoples' hope. For some, God is the only hope they have left, and the only thing keeping them alive. And YOU want to destroy that by trying to "prove" (Which you can't) that God doesn't exist.

I say you are hypocrites. You speak of morality, yet you have no consideration for what was just said above. I will say no more.

 

[Crujir]

Edited this post myself. Decided I didn't need to say what I was going to say in this post.