How does the Reformed view defend against these scriptures?

[RC1970]

Nothing about bible interpretation is simple. People argue about it all the time.

'All" does not usually mean "All sorts of people" and "world" does not usually mean "people from all over the world"

People do seem to have a lot of difficulty with the concept of "immediate inference" and the basic rules of grammar.

 

[Hammster]

Nothing about bible interpretation is simple. People argue about it all the time.

'All" does not usually mean "All sorts of people" and "world" does not usually mean "people from all over the world"

John uses world in at least eight different ways. Most of them are not "every person who has ever lived".

All gets used in a hyperbolic manner quite often.

So are you sure you want to stick to that?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Usually a proper understanding of the difference between God's decretive will and His prescriptive will helps with this subject.

 

[GingerBeer]

What is so objectionable about God wanting to save all men?

 

[RC1970]

What is so objectionable about God wanting to save all men?

Because God's not like us. When He wants something, He gets it.

 

[Hammster]

What is so objectionable about God wanting to save all men?

Nothing. But one, it's not supported biblically. And two, if He wanted to, He would.

 

[GingerBeer]

Because God's not like us. When He wants something, He gets it.

He says he wants all men to be saved. But he also says that not all are called. So whatever theory you're operating on it is not right.

 

[Hammster]

He says he wants all men to be saved. But he also says that not all are called. So whatever theory you're operating on it is not right.

No, He doesn't say that He wants all saved. If He did, they would be.

Jesus said He came to seek and save the lost. I, personally, don't think He fails at anything.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Do note that I would appreciate it if this discussion were to focus only on the verses provided and not trail off into something else. I'm looking for the Reformed's exegetical rebuttals and so you must forgive me if I preserve mild skepticism toward responses that are considerably on-the-spot eisegesis. Attempts are still welcomed. Remember to be charitable.

I'll be using (ESV) a version so Standard that Standard is its middle name.

1 Timothy 2:3-6
3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 John 2:2
2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

These verses are strongly suggestive of Unlimited Atonement, including the infamous John 3:16.

Matthew 22:14
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Now, unless God is in the business of practicing redundancy, (He is not Hebrews 13:8) this verse suggests Resistible Grace. Not to mention Matthew 18:10-14 the Parable of the Lost Sheep.

Matthew 10:38
38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Luke 9:23
23 And he said to all, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Mark 8:34
34 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them,"If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

You are asking how the Reformed would debate 'all' from scripture?

Now that's simple, they changed the meaning of 'all' to 'some'.

I think God knows Webster's Dictionary, but heh, some don't seem to think God knows the meaning of words, so they "help" God along......

 

[ToBeLoved]

No, He doesn't say that He wants all saved. If He did, they would be.

Jesus said He came to seek and save the lost. I, personally, don't think He fails at anything.

How do you refute the word "all" then?

Does God not understand words?

 

[Hammster]

You are asking how the Reformed would debate 'all' from scripture?

Now that's simple, they changed the meaning of 'all' to 'some'.

I think God knows Webster's Dictionary, but heh, some don't seem to think God knows the meaning of words, so they "help" God along......

That's completely incorrect. It's disingenuous to try to win an argument by mocking and misrepresenting another's position. Especially among brothers.

 

[Hammster]

How do you refute the word "all" then?

Does God not understand words?

You'll have to provide a verse. In some instances, all means every single person. In others, it means all types, or all of one subset.

 

[GingerBeer]

No, He doesn't say that He wants all saved. If He did, they would be.

Jesus said He came to seek and save the lost. I, personally, don't think He fails at anything.

Maybe it says "all" rather than "all men" ... I'll check now ... It says ὃς πάντας ἀνθρώπους θέλει σωθῆναι καὶ εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ἀληθείας ἐλθεῖν. so it is all men. πάντας ἀνθρώπους = all men.

And contrary to your assertion that words in the verse do say ὃς πάντας ἀνθρώπους θέλει σωθῆναι = Who all men wish saved

 

[Hammster]

Maybe it says "all" rather than "all men" ... I'll check now ... It says ὃς πάντας ἀνθρώπους θέλει σωθῆναι καὶ εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ἀληθείας ἐλθεῖν. so it is all men. πάντας ἀνθρώπους = all men.

And contrary to your assertion that words in the verse do say ὃς πάντας ἀνθρώπους θέλει σωθῆναι = Who all men wish saved

I don't read Greek like, I'm assuming, you do. So I don't know what you are referencing.

 

[ToBeLoved]

That's completely incorrect. It's disingenuous to try to win an argument by mocking and misrepresenting another's position. Especially among brothers.

Your disingenuous.

See post #68. Your own words. I'll paste below to remind you.

"No, He doesn't say that He wants all saved. If He did, they would be."

Yeah. So let's not call me disingenuous. I read your post and replied to it. Hence my pressing the "Post Reply" button.

 

[GingerBeer]

I don't read Greek like, I'm assuming, you do. So I don't know what you are referencing.

I translated it for you. It says what I said. Besides any reputable English translation does an adequate job making the meaning of the Greek sufficiently clear to an English reader. My bible says "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

 

[ToBeLoved]

You'll have to provide a verse. In some instances, all means every single person. In others, it means all types, or all of one subset.

We are discussing the specific verses that the OP posted in the OP.

Reference those please.

 

[Hammster]

Your disingenuous.

See post #68. Your own words. I'll paste below to remind you.

"No, He doesn't say that He wants all saved. If He did, they would be."

Yeah. So let's not call me disingenuous. I read your post and replied to it. Hence my pressing the "Post Reply" button.

How is that disingenuous? Who's view did I misrepresent? And where's your response to my post? I certainly don't see it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

My bible says "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

I think God knows words also.

Now, for clarification for the Calvinist, God said "All men", so how that means "some men" or the "elect men", I dunno.

 

[Hammster]

We are discussing the specific verses that the OP posted in the OP.

Reference those please.

No problem. Which one would you like to start with?