How does one come to believe something?

[ScottA]

Facts can be verified through sharable evidence. Just saying something is a fact doesn't make it so.

You're not listening.

Unrelated facts cannot verify. If you want evidence - stop asking for unrelated facts.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You're not listening.

Unrelated facts cannot verify. If you want evidence - stop asking for unrelated facts.

You don't give anyone any reason to believe any claim you make.

You assert facts without evidence.

You've been told that without evidence no one will take you seriously.

I'm pretty sure you're the one who's not listening.

Tell you what. Take a poll on this message board to see if any non-theist thinks you're doing a good job of arguing your position. Then get back to me.

 

[devolved]

Unrelated facts cannot verify. If you want evidence - stop asking for unrelated facts.

Which facts can verify? A feeling of piece after one eats a cracker? What would it be?

I think what he is asking for is anything that isn't just your word that it's true.

 

[bhsmte]

Spiritual empiricism...

Arsenios

Can you explain how you define that?

Also, how would one test whether what they perceived spiritually, was accurate?

 

[bhsmte]

Enjoy your substantial billiards...

They are not the meaning of life...

This life is not about this life...

Arsenios

You can make this life about whatever you choose to make it.

Others, can do the same.

 

[ScottA]

You don't give anyone any reason to believe any claim you make.

You assert facts without evidence.

You've been told that without evidence no one will take you seriously.

I'm pretty sure you're the one who's not listening.

Tell you what. Take a poll on this message board to see if any non-theist thinks you're doing a good job of arguing your position. Then get back to me.

It is not our goal to have non-theists take us serious or to argue. You came here to us. Take it or leave it.

And what you are not listening to, is the facts: that the evidence you seek does not apply. Are you so limited in you thinking that you cannot even imagine a world beyond the one you know?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

It is not our goal to have non-theists take us serious or to argue. You came here to us. Take it or leave it.

You're in the Philosophy section. In the part of the site for both theists and nontheists. This isn't your clubhouse. And you're not doing anything even remotely like Philosophy here.

And what you are not listening to, is the facts: that the evidence you seek does not apply. Are you so limited in you thinking that you cannot even imagine a world beyond the one you know?

Facts can be demonstrated. So if you're stating a fact, demonstrate it...

 

[ScottA]

You're in the Philosophy section. In the part of the site for both theists and nontheists. This isn't your clubhouse. And you're not doing anything even remotely like Philosophy here.

This is Christian Forums. But, you are probably right, it is perhaps too remote an idea for some to even enter into a philosophical discussion what non-theists don't know. Too deep I guess. Too bad.

Facts can be demonstrated. So if you're stating a fact, demonstrate it...

Correction: Only worldly facts can be demonstrated in the world...and why you can't seem to grasp the idea of the two being separate, just shows how elementary this little philosophy section is. (Watch - you won't even be able to go there - betcha can't!)

 

[Arsenios]

In your opinion...

This life ends in your death...
In YOUR opinion...
Nothing recommends nihilism...
Annihilation of self at death is YOUR opinion...

I know better...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Can you explain how you define that?

Spiritual empiricism? Paying inward attention...

Also, how would one test whether what they perceived spiritually, was accurate?

Different spiritual traditions have different criteria...

For the Christian, discipleship in the Church in the acquisition of Christian virtue...

Unto the overcoming of the world in the love of God and man...

Unto genuineness, sincerity, and purity of heart...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

You're in the Philosophy section.

And philosophically, you are a nihilist...
BECAUSE...
You believe mind is a function of (brain) matter...

Which disintegrates at death...

Arsenios

 

[ToddNotTodd]

This is Christian Forums. But, you are probably right, it is perhaps too remote an idea for some to even enter into a philosophical discussion what non-theists don't know. Too deep I guess. Too bad.

This is the General Discussion section of Christian Forums. A place for both theists and nontheists.

Your problem is that you haven't demonstrated that you have an idea at all. It certainly isn't Philosophy. And it certainly isn't fooling any nontheist here.

Correction: Only worldly facts can be demonstrated in the world...and why you can't seem to grasp the idea of the two being separate, just shows how elementary this little philosophy section is. (Watch - you won't even be able to go there - betcha can't!)

You keep saying there's another... realm... that you can't show in any way to be true. Which makes it indistinguishable from someone's delusions.

Actually, let's explore this. If someone else claims to "see" another realm that can't be demonstrated, how do you, as a believer in a realm that seemingly can't be demonstrated, justify your disbelief in what they see? What if their realm contradicts the realm you believe in?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

This life ends in your death...
In YOUR opinion...
Nothing recommends nihilism...
Annihilation of self at death is YOUR opinion...

I know better...

Arsenios

You believe you know better. But apparently you can't show it.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

And philosophically, you are a nihilist...
BECAUSE...
You believe mind is a function of (brain) matter...

Which disintegrates at death...

Arsenios

No. Believing in a physical brain doesn't make you a Nihilist.

I think you might want to look up the definition of "Nihilism". You are, after all, in the Philosophy section...

 

[ScottA]

You keep saying there's another... realm... that you can't show in any way to be true. Which makes it indistinguishable from someone's delusions.

Actually, let's explore this. If someone else claims to "see" another realm that can't be demonstrated, how do you, as a believer in a realm that seemingly can't be demonstrated, justify your disbelief in what they see? What if their realm contradicts the realm you believe in?

Not being able to show a blind person something visual...is not on the sighted person, but on the blind. Which, of course, should be considered philosophy for infants. So...if we are actually going to explore this, don't expect solid foods for some time.

Now, then, if I were downstairs and heard someone going on about upstairs - I could: A) call them delusional, B) go up and see for myself, or C) take their word for it.

A - is disqualified.

...Time for a potty break?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Not being able to show a blind person something visual...is not on the sighted person, but on the blind. Which, of course, should be considered philosophy for infants. So...if we are actually going to explore this, don't expect solid foods for some time.

I think you're in desperate need of a really basic book on Philosophy. Because you don't seem to understand what the word even means. If you send me your address I'll be happy to send you something from my freshman year. It will make posting to the Philosophy forum less embarrassing for you.

Now, then, if I were downstairs and heard someone going on about upstairs - I could: A) call them delusional, B) go up and see for myself, or C) take their word for it.

A - is disqualified.

...Time for a potty break?

So, either you're intentionally ignoring my questions, or you have some vague idea that you think you are. But you really aren't.

I'll ask again.

If someone else claims to "see" another realm that can't be demonstrated, how do you, as a believer in a realm that seemingly can't be demonstrated, justify your disbelief in what they see? What if their realm contradicts the realm you believe in?

Notice the phrase "can't be demonstrated".

 

[quatona]

Not being able to show a blind person something visual...is not on the sighted person, but on the blind.

We should pathologize each other more.

The interesting thing, though: A sighted person - even though unable to "show a blind person something visual" - usually has no problem whatsoever demonstrating to him that she has a reliable sense the blind person doesn´t have.
That´s why your persisting empty appeals to your own superiority and our handicap (including the above analogy) ring just hollow.

 

[bhsmte]

Spiritual empiricism? Paying inward attention...



Different spiritual traditions have different criteria...

For the Christian, discipleship in the Church in the acquisition of Christian virtue...

Unto the overcoming of the world in the love of God and man...

Unto genuineness, sincerity, and purity of heart...

Arsenios

Appears quite subjective and based on personal interpretation.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

And philosophically, you are a nihilist...
BECAUSE...
You believe mind is a function of (brain) matter...

Er, no. That's not what philosophical nihilism is.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

And what you are not listening to, is the facts: that the evidence you seek does not apply. Are you so limited in you thinking that you cannot even imagine a world beyond the one you know?

Sure - it's called imaginary or fictional.