How do you plan to escape HELL???

[stan1980]

I'm not worried about getting out. I just want to be sure I'm in a section far away from the OP.

Exactly, i said it before, but the OP thinks that Gandhi and most of us will end up in hell. The paedophilic priests (who repent) and the opening poster, shield of faith, will end up in heaven. Well, quite frankly, i wouldn't want to end up in heaven with the paedos and SOF!

 

[GrayCat]

Ha based on the predictions of who is going to Heaven and who is going to Hell, I'm rather glad i'm in the Hell group. :-D

 

[Eudaimonist]

but let me ask you, what did Jesus do when the people wouldn't believe him and rejected him?? He rebuked and admonished them.. He said those who reject him "have no love of God in your hearts" and that they "are the sons of the devil".. and if you "believed in God you would believe in the one he sent because he speaks from God"..

Whenever anyone walks up to me and claims to be the Son of God, I believe them instantly.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[TroubleShooter43]

You act like you know what the true meaning of love is. As well as the true meaning of loving your neighbour as yourself. Confirming someone in their sins to be agreeable to other people is not love.

St. Paul talked about love, but he had no problem rebuking sinners (fornicators, sodomites). Other verses he said to have "nothing to do with them". Neither did Jesus or Peter. Peter rebuked someone so hard that they dropped dead right in from of him (and then his wife did later).

And what does "Neighbour" mean? Many theologians took this for meaning only the christian community. The apostles took each other as their "neighbours" and their successors and so on. Are the Pagans and reprobate really are "neighbours"?? From St. Paul's writings it seems to portray a resounding NO. Meaning loving each other in the community(your fellow christians). Jesus said if they do not listen to you, shake off the dust from your feet, for it will be more "tolerable for Sodom than for that town"..

I get the feeling that you are unhappy with all that being a christian entails and are looking for an 'out' on the "Love Thy Neighbour" clause. Are you simply acknowledging that you are failing at being a christian and are unable to give up your hate for those around you? If that is the case, then I wouldn't worry if I were you, as you have probably never been a real christian at all and could never meet the admission requirements under any circumstances.

 

[Renton405]

I get the feeling that you are unhappy with all that being a christian entails and are looking for an 'out' on the "Love Thy Neighbour" clause. Are you simply acknowledging that you are failing at being a christian and are unable to give up your hate for those around you? If that is the case, then I wouldn't worry if I were you, as you have probably never been a real christian at all and could never meet the admission requirements under any circumstances.

LoL, but I confess Jesus Christ as Son of God and are baptized. I confess the forgiveness of sins and the ressurection. And on the third day he rose from the dead..I confess that Jesus Christ is the only light of the world, and without that light we are hopeless and stumble.. And the church does consider me a christian and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" ..You don't interperate my messages as love because you are blind and don't have the light. As St. Paul says the gospel seems as "foolishness" to the reprobate. And since you are speaking from a reprobate mind you see my writings as foolishness and "narrowmindedness"..So you cannot recognize what christians say. As I said before loving your neighbor dosen't mean confirming someone in their sins. I can admit I have done wrongs, I admit I have almost done every sin in the book probably. but in no way do I deny and confirm those sins.. but as far as you, I do love you, and pray for you that you will see the light one day and uncover your reprobate mind..

Whenever anyone walks up to me and claims to be the Son of God, I believe them instantly.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Oh really? Did they raise people from the dead? heal the blind? and raised from the dead 3 days later??

 

[quatona]

Oh really? Did they raise people from the dead? heal the blind? and raised from the dead 3 days later??

That´s not necessary. For me, they don´t even have to walk up to me.
An old book telling the story that they did such things is all I need.

 

[Soul Searcher]

LoL, but I confess Jesus Christ as Son of God and are baptized. I confess the forgiveness of sins and the ressurection. And on the third day he rose from the dead..I confess that Jesus Christ is the only light of the world, and without that light we are hopeless and stumble.. And the church does consider me a christian and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" ..You don't interperate my messages as love because you are blind and don't have the light. As St. Paul says the gospel seems as "foolishness" to the reprobate. And since you are speaking from a reprobate mind you see my writings as foolishness and "narrowmindedness"..So you cannot recognize what christians say. As I said before loving your neighbor dosen't mean confirming someone in their sins. I can admit I have done wrongs, I admit I have almost done every sin in the book probably. but in no way do I deny and confirm those sins.. but as far as you, I do love you, and pray for you that you will see the light one day and uncover your reprobate mind..

Just remember that Jesus said those who hear his sayings and do them are the wise and those who hear and doeth not are the foolish. A lot of what is preached sounds like foolishness because it is just that. It is not about what we say we believe it is about how we live.

The message was not interpreted as love because it did not show love.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Oh really? Did they raise people from the dead? heal the blind? and raised from the dead 3 days later??

Who hadn't seen people "heal the blind" in those days? There were many "faith healers" walking around. Consider the times.

If you were to go to India today, how many "miraculous people" would you be able to see? Quite a few.

Also, are you aware that people often "came back from the dead" in less modern times. So much so that when people were buried in Europe, their coffins might be installed with a pull cord attached to a bell, just to warn someone if they woke up in their coffin! Misdiagnosis of death was fairly common.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Renton405]

Just remember that Jesus said those who hear his sayings and do them are the wise and those who hear and doeth not are the foolish. A lot of what is preached sounds like foolishness because it is just that. It is not about what we say we believe it is about how we live.

The message was not interpreted as love because it did not show love.

You claim that the bible is with error. Well then you are not following Jesus teaching by doubting Gods word(which is Jesus in the flesh). Second some of your posts justify sin. Well then you are not following Jesus's teachings of "cutting off" what causes us to sin. What is your view on marriage? If you believe in things like divorce and gay marriage, well, then you are not following Jesus's teachings that "whosoever divorces his wife and marrys another commits adultry".. Im sorry, but the holy spirit does not error. And it shows you have doubt towards God through his scripture and his apostles.

You think because something SEEMS like love that it is actually love?? What one person may interperate as love, another may interperate as hate..However if someone is trying to justify sin, it shows that they are not speaking the truth, because they justify the one thing that seperates people from God..

 

[dlamberth]

You claim that the bible is with error. Well then you are not following Jesus teaching by doubting Gods word(which is Jesus in the flesh).

Being a deciple of Jesus, and seeing that there is error in the Bible are two completely different things.

.

 

[Renton405]

Being a deciple of Jesus, and seeing that there is error in the Bible are two completely different things.

.

Jesus is the word made flesh. God wrote the bible through the Holy Spirit. by making that claim, you claim that God errored and that the Word(Christ) is errored..

 

[Soul Searcher]

You claim that the bible is with error. Well then you are not following Jesus teaching by doubting Gods word(which is Jesus in the flesh).

? The bible is not Jesus, It was Jesus who said we are to love everyone even our enemy. And yes the bible does contain errors, how many depends on which version you look at.

Second some of your posts justify sin.

How so?

Well then you are not following Jesus's teachings of "cutting off" what causes us to sin. What is your view on marriage?

I am married. It is not for me to judge others in such matters.

If you believe in things like divorce and gay marriage, well, then you are not following Jesus's teachings that "whosoever divorces his wife and marrys another commits adultry"..

And those who condemn others are not following Jesus's teachings to love thier neighbor, nor the teachings to forgive others of thier trespasses nor the teachings of judge not and especially not the one of removing the log fromthier own eye. Jesus once said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Funny I see a lot of sinners casting stones at such issues as you have mentioned yet ignoring things that should be of much greater concern.

Im sorry, but the holy spirit does not error. And it shows you have doubt towards God through his scripture and his apostles.

The bible is not the Holy spirit and neihter are you. Your opinion is just your opinion.

You think because something SEEMS like love that it is actually love?? What one person may interperate as love, another may interperate as hate..However if someone is trying to justify sin, it shows that they are not speaking the truth, because they justify the one thing that seperates people from God..

First you have to understand what sin is. What may be a sin for one may not for another and what may be a sin to do in one instance may be a sin not to do in another. It is not so black and white as you might think and when any of us think that we know enough to judge our brother knowing not what is in his heart it is us who commit a sin.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Jesus is the word made flesh. God wrote the bible through the Holy Spirit. by making that claim, you claim that God errored and that the Word(Christ) is errored..

God did not write the bible. Men did. One of those men [not one of the prophets] did write that all scripure of prophecy comes from the holy spirit. He did not say anything about any letters nor any book of the new testament but was referring to the books of the prophets and likely only those and even then it was a man who wrote this not God.

 

[Renton405]

God did not write the bible. Men did. One of those men [not one of the prophets] did write that all scripure of prophecy comes from the holy spirit. He did not say anything about any letters nor any book of the new testament but was referring to the books of the prophets and likely only those and even then it was a man who wrote this not God.

If you do not believe God wrote the bible through the holy spirit, then you are not really a christian. Christ brought up many times where he needed to do things in order that the "scripture may be fullfilled". Your telling me that scripture that Jesus followed is errored?? As well as all of his prophecys about his coming?? Secondly no, sin is sin, the "what may be sin for others may not be sin for someone else" is very unscriptual and anti-christian. Do you believe that your extra self-righteous and that sin dosen't apply to you?? Im sorry, but the same sin applys to everyone, including you, no one is special where a sin "dosen't apply to them". Sins in the bible are very clearly layed out, as well as the 7 deadly sins, the sins that cry out to God, and the 10 commandments. Plus our consciousness knows when we see something that is wrong, this is what God put in our hearts. And for no reason whatever can you trump that feeling. You may try to dull it. But it is still always there..Secondly this is not my opinion, but over 2000 years of the church guided by the holy spirit, witten by the apostles, their succesors and bishops and millions of other people. So your claim that the bible was not written by God gets a big re-sounding NO from all 2000+ years of christianity..

"Satans favorite color is GREY". One priest said. How true is that..There is no grey area with God. Only light, and no sin can enter heaven. What is sin for someone is sin for another person. We are all equal..your attempts to justify sin is an actual mortal sin in itself and Jesus was very clear on people who caused others to sin..

 

[dlamberth]

Jesus is the word made flesh. God wrote the bible through the Holy Spirit. by making that claim, you claim that God errored and that the Word(Christ) is errored..

Men wrote the Bible, not God. It's not Christ who is in error, but the Bible.

The ONLY Holy Script directly written by the hand of God can ONLY be found with in Life itself. ALL other text has passed through the hands of man and thus contains errors. Plain and simple.


.

 

[Renton405]

Men wrote the Bible, not God. It's not Christ who is in error, but the Bible.

The ONLY Holy Script directly written by the hand of God can ONLY be found with in Life itself. ALL other text has passed through the hands of man and thus contains errors. Plain and simple.


.

The men who wrote the bible were moved by the holy spirit. And thus they wrote without error. The Holy Spirit does not error..There are hundreds of prophecys about Christ alone in the OT and it would be impossible to predict things like that if it were not inspired by the Holy Spirit. All the apostles and ECF would disagree with you..

 

[Vene]

If you believe in things like divorce and gay marriage, well, then you are not following Jesus's teachings that "whosoever divorces his wife and marrys another commits adultry".. Im sorry, but the holy spirit does not error. And it shows you have doubt towards God through his scripture and his apostles.

What in the name of your God does this have to do with same sex marriage? Last time I checked Jesus was mute on the subject of homosexuality.

 

[dlamberth]

The men who wrote the bible were moved by the holy spirit. And thus they wrote without error.

There is a HUGE difference between being "moved" by the Holy Spirit and "written" by the Holy Spirit. Being “moved” by the Holy Spirit leaves a heck of a lot of room for human judgment and biases and error to be introduced.

he Holy Spirit does not error..

But men do error. And every word that was written down in the Bible passed through the hands of men complete with the religious biases and cultural influences of the times on those men.

There are hundreds of prophecys about Christ alone in the OT and it would be impossible to predict things like that if it were not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

So? There are also tons of other stuff that is in error.

All the apostles and ECF would disagree with you..

You do not know the mind of the Apostles. But if you really want to go there, do you really think that the Apostles would approve of the state of the followers of Christ today? Personally, I think that they would be appalled. The main teachings of Christ, that being that the Kingdom of God is reachable today through Love, Compassion and treating others as you would be treated have been left behind by the followers of Christ. Not only is there error in the Bible, there is also error in the followers of Christ and what’s important to them as compared to what was important to Christ. We see the truth of that were today we hardly ever hear anything from Christians about the Kingdom of God right here on earth where it is needed the most. Yet that’s mostly what Jesus spoke of.

There are "other" early Christian text that depict a different early trajectory of Christ than those books selected to be in the Bible. Are those "other" Christian text any less "moved" by the Holy Spirit than those books selected to be in the Bible?

.

 

[Soul Searcher]

If you do not believe God wrote the bible through the holy spirit, then you are not really a christian.

As usual you are wrong. Being a Christian is about following the teachings of Jesus it is not about some silly belief in the author ship of a book or set of books as it were. As I said before the bible says that the scriptures of prophecy came by way of the holy spirit through holy men there is nothing to indicate that the bible is what was referred to, many of the books did not exist when that was written. They were written and assembled later by a group of men. Parts are not scripture at all but letters written to churches and there is prophecy written by holy men which was not included as well. If you think it is inerrant then you are in error.

Christ brought up many times where he needed to do things in order that the "scripture may be fullfilled". Your telling me that scripture that Jesus followed is errored?? As well as all of his prophecys about his coming??

First I did not say that everything in the bible was false bor did I say it was all errors. I said it does have errors and it was written by men. This is 100% factual. Second Those who wrote the bible speak of Jesus's deeds and in some cases say that he did this that it might be fulfilled what was written by the prophets. So what we have is not that Christ was bringing up that he needed to do things but the authors sayign that he did these things for that reason.

Secondly no, sin is sin, the "what may be sin for others may not be sin for someone else" is very unscriptual and anti-christian.

Wrong again.
Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
By extension we can see that if you do not know to do good then it is not a sin to fail to do it therefore what is a sin for one may not be a sin to another. Also Jesus says we shall be judged as we have judged others. So if we condemn someone for something that we think they have done wrong. It may not be asin for them but for us it would be as our judgment has already condemned the action in another.

Do you believe that your extra self-righteous and that sin dosen't apply to you?? Im sorry, but the same sin applys to everyone, including you, no one is special where a sin "dosen't apply to them".

Now you are just being silly. I wonder if you even understand what sin is, from what I see in your posts I think the answer must be no.

Sins in the bible are very clearly layed out, as well as the 7 deadly sins, the sins that cry out to God, and the 10 commandments. Plus our consciousness knows when we see something that is wrong, this is what God put in our hearts. And for no reason whatever can you trump that feeling. You may try to dull it. But it is still always there..Secondly this is not my opinion, but over 2000 years of the church guided by the holy spirit, witten by the apostles, their succesors and bishops and millions of other people. So your claim that the bible was not written by God gets a big re-sounding NO from all 2000+ years of christianity..

Say what you will, what I have said is true like it or not.

"Satans favorite color is GREY". One priest said. How true is that..There is no grey area with God. Only light, and no sin can enter heaven. What is sin for someone is sin for another person. We are all equal..your attempts to justify sin is an actual mortal sin in itself and Jesus was very clear on people who caused others to sin..

Actually I would say that Satans favorite colors are black and white. The bibel says that satan roams the earth seeking whom he may devour it also tells us that the letter of the law [black and white view] kills but the spirit giveth life. The key to the law is love for our fellow man if we do all things out of love for others then we fulfill the law and when we do something that is not out of love then we fail.

Example: Normally it is wrong to lie but there can be occasions where a lie is the right thing to do. Likewise it is normally good to tell the truth but there can be times when tellign the truth is the wrong thing to do. The same can be said about many things in this world. It is all a wide selection of grays and no black and white. Those who see in only black and white are yet blinded to the spirit of the law and need to have thier eyes opened before they will understand.

 

[Renton405]

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

That means, for someone who knows about Jesus Christ, and still rejects him, sins.. Or someone who is able to give to the poor, and dosen't..

Its knowing what good is, and still not doing it.. It has nothing to do with another person.. Horrible interperatation..

Say what you will, what I have said is true like it or not.

well aren't you the self righteous one. Are you the sole arbitror of interperatation now ? But wait, you say the bible is errored, so how can you trust your interperatation?? hmm.. By your interperatation sin dosen't apply to some people, which makes not everyone equal in Gods eyes. You have a big problem in your hands with that..

You wonder if I know what sin is?? It seems you obviously don't know what it is since you can't even tell me what sin is in the first place and that its all "grey area"lol.. Sin is what serperates someone from God. The 10 commandments are guides to our sins for us, as well as doctrine, the apostles, the 7 deadly sins, and the 4 sins that cry out to God..There are very clear sins that are layed out in the bible. Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the Law will pass away even if earth and heaven passes away..Jesus fullfilled the law by saving us from the death of the law, but the law still exists and applys to us all. The law condemns us, Christ forgives us..

Secondly it is a sin to tell a lie, even if it results in the death of someone. Doing evil for the greater good is what has caused nearly all the wars in this world..I suggest you read up on Mental Reservation and Strict mental Reservation. A person telling a lie without the intention of lying in itself is called mental reservation. So a Catholic lying to a Nazi in order to save a Jew would be a mental reservation, not a true lie in itself, and thus is not a sin. It shows that there is qualifications to the words that he utters(and when there are qualifications it nullifys the lie because of the outer reasons).. In order to lie you have to have FULL intention of lying. Just as when you marry someone, you have to have full intention of marrying them. If you marry someone because your mother forces you or some other reason, it isn't a true marriage because of mental reservation..