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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
How do you plan to escape HELL???
- Thread starter ShieldOFaith
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
I'd like Zooey Deschanel to play me. Although, well, maybe that'd be a bit incestuous, given how much I fancy her
She's be portraying you -- it's not incest if it's with yourself
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StarCannon
Warmaster
She's be portraying you -- it's not incest if it's with yourself
Wouldn't that be masturbation instead? ^ ^
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I would say we need to teach both. The 10 commandments are apart of the Law and are still in play. Teaching the Law also helps us understand why Christ died in the manner He did and why He fulfilled it.
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R
Renton405
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Jesus didn't do away with the commandments though..
"Love" for some people is confirming someone in their sins in order to seem agreeable to everyone. That is NOT true love..Did John the Baptist confirm Herod in his adultrys?? Did he say "Iks ok to divorce your wife if you guys don't get along anymore and be with other women(or men)"... I somehow doubt that
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No he shortened them and stated quite clearly in what context they should be applied.
Meaning if you claim you are "following the law" but it runs contrary to acting out of love then you aren't following Jesus.
Meaning if you claim you are "following the law" but it runs contrary to acting out of love then you aren't following Jesus.
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Levi...
I am confused. By your logic, you are saying that I can break a commandment as long as I am acting out of love.
I would like to see scripture backing that one up.
Christ did not say to ignore the Law.
I am confused. By your logic, you are saying that I can break a commandment as long as I am acting out of love.
I would like to see scripture backing that one up.
Christ did not say to ignore the Law.
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cantata
Queer non-theist, with added jam.
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Jesus said that on the double love command - to love God, and to love your neighbour - hangs all the law and the prophets. I believe that means that the ten commandments were simplified rules that were derived from the double love command. With Jesus' coming, we've been made ready for a less absolutist approach to morality. And that approach is the loving one.
So yes, you are allowed to break a commandment if it's the most loving thing to do. The commandments are just logical extensions of the double love command, but because the double love command comprises the two most important commandments, you should always put them first. The only absolute laws are "love God" and "be loving towards each other". If you're doing both those things, you're doing it right. Sure, if you're not bright enough to see how it's usually the most loving thing not to commit adultery or not to murder or not to be jealous of other people's stuff, then it's useful to have some nice unambiguous commandments. But if you can really grasp the command to be loving to God and to humankind, you can get along with nothing but that, and judge each situation on its individual merits.
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absolutely.
Romans 13:9-10
The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Galatians 5:14
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Jesus states quite clearly what is required of you as a Christian. Act out of love. All laws are subserviant to this mandate. Anything you do that runs contrary to this, including following another commandment, is wrong according to Jesus.
Now hellfire Christians may look at this and say this is a blanket endorsement of every law equating to love.
This isn't true. Jesus has set the hierarchy.
It makes sense as obviously laws and commandments aren't meant to be viewed as an objective truth but rather measured by the circumstances of the situation. We can create many hypotheticals where breaking a law or a commandment is in fact the loving and moral thing to do. Jesus knew you couldn't merely have a laundry list of do's and do nots. He wanted everyone to measure their action by determining whether or not they are acting with love in their hearts. This takes introspection. It takes soul searching. It takes being honest with yourself and entertaining the idea that maybe you aren't acting with the purest intentions although on the surface it may appear so. It's through constant re-examination of the intentions behind what we do that we determine whether were acting morally and in concordance with what Jesus has mandated.
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Exactly.
All too often following these commandments is the loving thing to do, but not necessarily.
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Soul Searcher
The kingdom is within
Paul speaks of the letter of the law verses the spirit. The former kills the latter gives life.
Many times we may see a situtation where strict adherance by the letter of the law would cause harm to others even death but the spirit of the law is in love and when the law is observed in the spirit which it is intended the result is good.
Remember when Jesus healed on the sabbath day? By the letter of the law this was wrong to do. By the spirit of the law it would be wrong not to.
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Commandment is not the same as the Law in retrosepct. You didn't answer the question.
BY both of your assertions, I can commit adultry if I am doing it out of love because Christ said to do all things in love.
Which even by Christ that is a sin.
I also think you have not understood my assertion to study the Law. It is not to study the Law to do it but to understand it so that you are able to understand why Christ said what he said, did what He did, died the way He died, and FULFILLED the Law Bibically.
BY both of your assertions, I can commit adultry if I am doing it out of love because Christ said to do all things in love.
Which even by Christ that is a sin.
I also think you have not understood my assertion to study the Law. It is not to study the Law to do it but to understand it so that you are able to understand why Christ said what he said, did what He did, died the way He died, and FULFILLED the Law Bibically.
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Soul Searcher
The kingdom is within
Would it be out of love to your spouse or out of lust for your lover? I would think that you are confused. The act of adultry woudl likely hurt your spouse or your lovers spouse or both should both exist and in no way can be considered as being done out of love.
Many people seem to misunderstand what fullfilled means in this context. They seem to think that the law went away because Jesus had said not one jot of the law shall pass away until all is fullfilled.
He was not talking about one man obeying the law in spirit but all things being fullfilled which also includles all the prophecies, heaven and earth have not passed away, Jesus was there to make known the true intent of the law. To make people understand not to abolish it but to place it into action and make it known.
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Lust for a lover...what about a woman who is in love with the person she is cheating on. Again by your logic if she loves the one she is cheating on it's all done in love.
The Law in itself is not done away. The Laws dealing with living a pure life and salvation i.e. have been fulfilled.
The Commandments which in itself is more than the Law, had not been trumped or down away with at all. Everything you say don't steal ,murder, and on Christ told us to follow.
Christ followed the Law even on the Sabbath.
The Law in itself is not done away. The Laws dealing with living a pure life and salvation i.e. have been fulfilled.
The Commandments which in itself is more than the Law, had not been trumped or down away with at all. Everything you say don't steal ,murder, and on Christ told us to follow.
Christ followed the Law even on the Sabbath.
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Mrs.Sidhe
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If the law is still in play then do you follow all 613 mitzvot? (at least the ones that apply to your status in life) I doubt it.
As others have noted--Jesus had one commandment To Love your neighbor as yourself and Love God with all your being. If you act out of Love then you are fulfilling the spirit of the law.
It seems to me too many people get to caught up in the words rather than the spirit.
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Soul Searcher
The kingdom is within
Wrong. being in love is not what is meant by love. It has nothing to do with warm fuzzy feelings, attractions or lustful instincts. It has to do with compassion, mercy, the desire to help others and not do them harm. The act of adultry can potetnially hurt several people [e.g. spouses, children perhaps others in rare occasions] and is loving to no one.
In spirit yes but in letter no. He did the work of healing on the sabbath day and by the letter of the law this is a violation. By the spirit of the law he would have been wrong not to have done so.
In other words the spirit of the law required him to break the letter of the law and it is the spirit of the law that we are to adhere to not the letter.
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