How do you plan to escape HELL???

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Lust for a lover...what about a woman who is in love with the person she is cheating on. Again by your logic if she loves the one she is cheating on it's all done in love.

You obviously do not understand the concept of acting in Love. If the woman is cheating she is not acting in love. She may be in love with her lover and her physical actions with her lover may be an "act" of love, but the way she will hurt her husband/partner, her family and eventually herself is not acting in Love. This is not hard to understand.

The Commandments which in itself is more than the Law, had not been trumped or down away with at all. Everything you say don't steal ,murder, and on Christ told us to follow.

The Ten Commandments are not more than the law. They are the first Ten Laws. (or words as I learned the translation really is). They are part of it. But again, Jesus had one commandment. to love your neighbor. If you do this you will follow the Ten Words(Commandments) Honestly, however these where laws/rules for a people who had been in slavery for hundreds of years. These where laws (including some of the other 613 mitzvot--not concerning religious law of course) that where to keep order and insure justice. These moral concepts are not special to Jesus--sorry.

Christ followed the Law even on the Sabbath.

No offense but you need to re-read the New Testament. On the Sabbath Jesus healed and cured them. He did things on the Sabbath. According to Jewish law that was forbidden and blasphemy as in the Jewish tradition the Sabbath is extremely holy--even more so than some of the holidays.

 

[levi501]

Soul Searcher, thanks for saying so succinctly what I'm trying to get at.

BY both of your assertions, I can commit adultry if I am doing it out of love because Christ said to do all things in love.

Not true. Being in love doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want in the name of it. Being negligent to the person so swore an oath to isn't acting in love. Don't mix all the different meanings of the word. Acting out of love is acting with intent to create the greatest amount of good for your fellow man.

That's the best thing about Jesus's mandate.
There is no getting around it. All other commandments can be spun and misapplied for ulterior means. With those you can deceive yourself easily and even justify it to others. There's no getting around his mandate to act out of love if you truly take the time to examine your motives. That's why you leave it to God to pass judgement, because only he can truly know a person's intentions. Only he can truly know if you spent your life acting with love in your heart.

 

[Renton405]

absolutely.


Romans 13:9-10
The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Galatians 5:14
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Jesus states quite clearly what is required of you as a Christian. Act out of love. All laws are subserviant to this mandate. Anything you do that runs contrary to this, including following another commandment, is wrong according to Jesus.

Now hellfire Christians may look at this and say this is a blanket endorsement of every law equating to love.
This isn't true. Jesus has set the hierarchy.
It makes sense as obviously laws and commandments aren't meant to be viewed as an objective truth but rather measured by the circumstances of the situation. We can create many hypotheticals where breaking a law or a commandment is in fact the loving and moral thing to do. Jesus knew you couldn't merely have a laundry list of do's and do nots. He wanted everyone to measure their action by determining whether or not they are acting with love in their hearts. This takes introspection. It takes soul searching. It takes being honest with yourself and entertaining the idea that maybe you aren't acting with the purest intentions although on the surface it may appear so. It's through constant re-examination of the intentions behind what we do that we determine whether were acting morally and in concordance with what Jesus has mandated.

You act like you know what the true meaning of love is. As well as the true meaning of loving your neighbor as yourself. Confirming someone in their sins to be agreebale to other people is not love..

St. Paul talked about love, but he had no problem rebuking sinners(fornicators, sodomites). Other verses he said to have "nothing to do with them".. Neither did Jesus or Peter. Peter rebuked someone so hard that they dropped dead right in from of him(and then his wife did later)..

And what does "Neighbor" mean? many theologians took this for meaning only the christian community. The apostles took each other as their "neighbors" and their successors and so on..Are the Pagans and reprobate really are "neighbors"?? From St. Paul's writings it seems to portray a resounding NO.. Meaning loving each other in the community(your fellow christians). Jesus said if they do not listen to you, shake off the dust from your feet, for it will be more "tolerable for Sodom than for that town"..

 

[Soul Searcher]

You act like you know what the true meaning of love is. As well as the true meaning of loving your neighbor as yourself. Confirming someone in their sins to be agreebale to other people is not love..

St. Paul talked about love, but he had no problem rebuking sinners(fornicators, sodomites). Other verses he said to have "nothing to do with them".. Neither did Jesus or Peter. Peter rebuked someone so hard that they dropped dead right in from of him(and then his wife did later)..

And what does "Neighbor" mean? many theologians took this for meaning only the christian community. The apostles took each other as their "neighbors" and their successors and so on..Are the Pagans and reprobate really are "neighbors"?? From St. Paul's writings it seems to portray a resounding NO.. Meaning loving each other in the community(your fellow christians). Jesus said if they do not listen to you, shake off the dust from your feet, for it will be more "tolerable for Sodom than for that town"..

If you want to know what neighbor means read the good samaritan story. In the story Jesus is showing them that the person who they may think of as scum, infidel, heretic is there neighbor.

We are all neighbors and we are to love all people even our enemies. This is what Jesus taught.

 

[Renton405]

If you want to know what neighbor means read the good samaritan story. In the story Jesus is showing them that the person who they may think of as scum, infidel, heretic is there neighbor.

We are all neighbors and we are to love all people even our enemies. This is what Jesus taught.

wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people

Now, what I meant was that you should not associate with people who call themselves brothers or sisters in the Christian faith but live in sexual sin, are greedy, worship false gods, use abusive language, get drunk, or are dishonest. Don't eat with such people. - 1 Corinthians 5:12

But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. - 1 Corinthians 5:13

Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints?
Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us

 

[Maren]

You act like you know what the true meaning of love is. As well as the true meaning of loving your neighbor as yourself. Confirming someone in their sins to be agreebale to other people is not love..

St. Paul talked about love, but he had no problem rebuking sinners(fornicators, sodomites). Other verses he said to have "nothing to do with them".. Neither did Jesus or Peter. Peter rebuked someone so hard that they dropped dead right in from of him(and then his wife did later)..

And what does "Neighbor" mean? many theologians took this for meaning only the christian community. The apostles took each other as their "neighbors" and their successors and so on..Are the Pagans and reprobate really are "neighbors"?? From St. Paul's writings it seems to portray a resounding NO.. Meaning loving each other in the community(your fellow christians). Jesus said if they do not listen to you, shake off the dust from your feet, for it will be more "tolerable for Sodom than for that town"..

I'm curious, what examples are there of Christ proselytizing where he called the people sinners. Though I might be wrong, I can't think of any. The one example that comes to mind is Paul on Mar's Hill, where rather than tell people they were going to hell, he instead used their own beliefs in an unknown god to teach about Christ.

In fact, Romans 2 seems to say the exact opposite of what you are saying here, and remember the verse prior to this talks about fornicators and sodomites:

1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

One last note, the only time recorded that Paul dusted the dust off his feet at a town was at Antioch, where the Jews (who Jesus directed the disciples to dust their feet at) kicked Paul out of town because he taught the gentiles.

 

[Maren]

wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people

But non-Christians are not necessarily immoral, anymore than being Christian automatically makes a man moral (as your other quotes indicate).

Now, what I meant was that you should not associate with people who call themselves brothers or sisters in the Christian faith but live in sexual sin, are greedy, worship false gods, use abusive language, get drunk, or are dishonest. Don't eat with such people. - 1 Corinthians 5:12

This is only directed that they not associate with Christians who do these things, it says nothing about non-Christians.

But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. - 1 Corinthians 5:13

Again, this is directed at the church to remove those who claim to be Christian but do not act like Christians. It has nothing to do with non-Christians.

Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints?
Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

Again, is telling that when you have a problem with another church member you let the church decide, again has nothing to do with non-Christians.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

What does this have to do with associating with non-Christians? Further, as I pointed out in my previous post, Paul follows this by telling Christians that they condemn themselves by judging these people.

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Typically, I've seen this used in the context that one should not marry a non-believer. It does not say you shouldn't associate with non-believers, just that you shouldn't be bound to them.

Ephesians 5:11

Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us

Again, this is saying to stay away from other Christians (hence the use of the word brother) who live unruly lives, it says nothing about non-Christians.

 

[Soul Searcher]

wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people

Now, what I meant was that you should not associate with people who call themselves brothers or sisters in the Christian faith but live in sexual sin, are greedy, worship false gods, use abusive language, get drunk, or are dishonest. Don't eat with such people. - 1 Corinthians 5:12

Are we to think that these words from Paul are to superceed the teachings of Jesus. I say no, what say you?

 

[dlamberth]

wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people

Now, what I meant was that you should not associate with people who call themselves brothers or sisters in the Christian faith but live in sexual sin, are greedy, worship false gods, use abusive language, get drunk, or are dishonest. Don't eat with such people. - 1 Corinthians 5:12

But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. - 1 Corinthians 5:13

Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints?
Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us

All of this is in stark contrast with how Jesus actually lived. Jesus did hang with the sinners and tax collectors. He drank wine with them and ate with them.

.

 

[clarksided]

I plan to fly out on my shiny new Nimbus 2000.

Cause you know that's where all things Harry Potter reside; hell.

 

[levi501]

You act like you know what the true meaning of love is. As well as the true meaning of loving your neighbor as yourself. Confirming someone in their sins to be agreebale to other people is not love..

So is it really your contention that "neighbor" isn't refering to everyone? Do you honestly think Jesus wanted unbelievers and sinners treated differently in regards to love shown? If not, then what's your point?

The only sin there is to act unloving to your fellow man. There is no other. Unless you disagree with Jesus, acting out of love, ie. loving thy neighbor is all that is needed to follow the law. Therefor anything that is done with the purest of loving intentions, no matter how many fundies think it's wrong, isn't a sin according to Jesus.

 

[Maren]

I plan to fly out on my shiny new Nimbus 2000.

Cause you know that's where all things Harry Potter reside; hell.

Good idea, but I'd get one of the newer Nimbus'. Who knows, they may have a 2050 model by the time you are in hell.

 

[ArchaicTruth]

suckers, I already pirated a nimbus 9999

wait, oh shi- *falls into fiery pit of hell but then flies out*

 

[Eudaimonist]

Just make sure to avoid the Nimbus Vista. It's slow as hell.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Renton405]

Are we to think that these words from Paul are to superceed the teachings of Jesus. I say no, what say you?

The same Holy Spirit wrote all of the Bible. St. Paul was influenced under the holy spirit when he was writing, so it is without error..The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Do you see the connection??

 

[Renton405]

So is it really your contention that "neighbor" isn't refering to everyone? Do you honestly think Jesus wanted unbelievers and sinners treated differently in regards to love shown? If not, then what's your point?

The only sin there is to act unloving to your fellow man. There is no other. Unless you disagree with Jesus, acting out of love, ie. loving thy neighbor is all that is needed to follow the law. Therefor anything that is done with the purest of loving intentions, no matter how many fundies think it's wrong, isn't a sin according to Jesus.

Unbelieverswho won't believe and reject Christ , yes.. And Jesus said it will be more "tolerable on Sodom than for that town"..

All of this is in stark contrast with how Jesus actually lived. Jesus did hang with the sinners and tax collectors. He drank wine with them and ate with them.

Now unbelievers who have never heard of the Word is a whole different story..and thats why Jesus sat with them. because they never heard the word before, and EVERYONE needs to hear it. but let me ask you, what did Jesus do when the people wouldn't believe him and rejected him?? He rebuked and admonished them.. He said those who reject him "have no love of God in your hearts" and that they "are the sons of the devil".. and if you "believed in God you would believe in the one he sent because he speaks from God"..

I suggest you read in the Gospels about the men who rejected and mocked Christ, and read how Jesus responds to them.

But people who HAVE heard of the word and still mock and reject Christ? Like lotsa the non- believers on this forum do?. The only thing to do is to pray for them and rebuke them..When someone is kind to you, you mock them, when someone rebukes you you label them "narrowminded"..I really suggest you look at this, because these are signs of being reprobate..

 

[cantata]

When someone is kind to you, you mock them, when someone rebukes you you label them "narrowminded"..

You know what? It goes both ways. I recently sent a very polite, courteous and sincere message to someone who reported a post I made in error, suggesting that we talk about the problem rather than resort to reporting posts, and I received one back which claimed that my politeness deserved 'contempt and derision', and which ended with 'Get behind me, Satan.' You know why I think that person did that? Because they saw that little Humanist symbol up there. I'm quite sure I would have received no such abuse if I'd labelled myself a Christian.

So yeah, clean your own house.

 

[Maren]

Unbelieverswho won't believe and reject Christ , yes.. And Jesus said it will be more "tolerable on Sodom than for that town"..



Now unbelievers who have never heard of the Word is a whole different story..and thats why Jesus sat with them. because they never heard the word before, and EVERYONE needs to hear it. but let me ask you, what did Jesus do when the people wouldn't believe him and rejected him?? He rebuked and admonished them.. He said those who reject him "have no love of God in your hearts" and that they "are the sons of the devil".. and if you "believed in God you would believe in the one he sent because he speaks from God"..

I suggest you read in the Gospels about the men who rejected and mocked Christ, and read how Jesus responds to them.

But people who HAVE heard of the word and still mock and reject Christ? Like lotsa the non- believers on this forum do?. The only thing to do is to pray for them and rebuke them..When someone is kind to you, you mock them, when someone rebukes you you label them "narrowminded"..I really suggest you look at this, because these are signs of being reprobate..

Except, again, those were not "unbelievers" in the sense you are using it. And I pointed out the one time Paul shook his feet at a town. In fact, you've shown nothing about unbelievers but only about Jews that did not accept Christ or fought against the apostles. And the quotes from Paul all were aimed at not associating with believers who do not follow Christ, not unbelievers.

 

[Soul Searcher]

The same Holy Spirit wrote all of the Bible. St. Paul was influenced under the holy spirit when he was writing, so it is without error..The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Do you see the connection??

Just because you say it does not make it true. Paul supposedly wrote the epistles from which you have quoted. Whereas what I quoted is said to be words right out of Jesus's mouth, recorded of course by a man, traditionaly Matthew though no one really knows for sure who wrote it. We do know that it was not God and that it was a human but we know not who. As for being without error that is just not true there are many errors within the bible and within the doctorines taught by every church.

 

[keith99]

I'm not worried about getting out. I just want to be sure I'm in a section far away from the OP.

Oh and being a man or wealth, taste and learning I do know at least one way out. But it is a long trip the the frozen level of Hell.