How do you know that you have been predestined to salvation?

[Hammster]

Yes, it does. It states that those who God foreknew would be in Christ, them He has predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. It does not say that God predestined them to be in Christ, and to interpret as such is a misinterpretation.

Tisk, tisk. Adding to Scripture. It says "those He foreknew". And those He knew in advance (for this is what that means) He predestined, or predetermined, to conform to the image of His Son (that's Jesus). And we call that sanctification. Which is part of salvation. And those whom He predestines to sanctify, He called (notice that He doesn't call everyone). And those who He has predestined to sanctify, and whom He calls, He then justifies (a one time thing in which we are declared just before God).

Now, if you can show how I added to scripture or changed it, be my guest.

 

[swordmaster]

Tisk, tisk. Adding to Scripture. It says "those He foreknew". And those He knew in advance (for this is what that means) He predestined, or predetermined, to conform to the image of His Son (that's Jesus). And we call that sanctification. Which is part of salvation. And those whom He predestines to sanctify, He called (notice that He doesn't call everyone). And those who He has predestined to sanctify, and whom He calls, He then justifies (a one time thing in which we are declared just before God).

Now, if you can show how I added to scripture or changed it, be my guest.

OK, glad to. First off, sanctification does not mean being conformed to the image of Christ, I wonder where you get that from. Sanctification speaks of our willingness to walk in holiness, that is, to walk in obedience to God and not soil ourselves with the world. Conforming to the image of Christ has to do with allowing the Fruit of the Spirit to grow and manifest in our lives through walking in the Spirit. Try again....next...

Sanctification is not a part of salvation. Sanctification and salvation are both aspects of the atonement, only sanctification is two fold in nature. We have positional sanctification (holiness) in Christ, and God demands that we practice sanctification, which is the same thing as righteousness only viewed from two different angles. Righteousness is DOING what is right in God's eyes (obedience), while sanctification is practicing holiness...keeping one's self apart from sin (obedience). Both sides of the same coin.

So that's two places where you changed and added to it.

I won't bother showing you the others, for you aren't listening anyway.

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Being predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ has nothing to do with salvation, for only those who are in Christ are predestined to be conformed...if you put it all together from the whole counsel of God's Word, you should see that. God calls (in the context of this passage) those who are predestined to the image of Christ, meaning those who are in Christ...so no, He doesn't call every man, only those who are in Christ. Those who are in Christ He has also justified and glorified...but you are only declared justified as long as you remain abiding in Christ. If you cease to remain in the covenant, then you cease to remain in Christ, and you no longer have any of the elements of the atonement applied to you (justification, sanctification, salvation, redemption, reconciliation, righteousness...none of them).

Try again.

 

[Hammster]

OK, glad to. First off, sanctification does not mean being conformed to the image of Christ, I wonder where you get that from. Sanctification speaks of our willingness to walk in holiness, that is, to walk in obedience to God and not soil ourselves with the world. Conforming to the image of Christ has to do with allowing the Fruit of the Spirit to grow and manifest in our lives through walking in the Spirit. Try again....next...

Sanctification is not a part of salvation. Sanctification and salvation are both aspects of the atonement, only sanctification is two fold in nature. We have positional sanctification (holiness) in Christ, and God demands that we practice sanctification, which is the same thing as righteousness only viewed from two different angles. Righteousness is DOING what is right in God's eyes (obedience), while sanctification is practicing holiness...keeping one's self apart from sin (obedience). Both sides of the same coin.

So that's two places where you changed and added to it.

I won't bother showing you the others, for you aren't listening anyway.

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Being predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ has nothing to do with salvation, for only those who are in Christ are predestined to be conformed...if you put it all together from the whole counsel of God's Word, you should see that. God calls (in the context of this passage) those who are predestined to the image of Christ, meaning those who are in Christ...so no, He doesn't call every man, only those who are in Christ. Those who are in Christ He has also justified and glorified...but you are only declared justified as long as you remain abiding in Christ. If you cease to remain in the covenant, then you cease to remain in Christ, and you no longer have any of the elements of the atonement applied to you (justification, sanctification, salvation, redemption, reconciliation, righteousness...none of them).

Try again.

You are so far off the reservation that to continue would be pointless. You gave redefined terms and concepts that most would not recognize. To have a meaningful discussion would be to go to the very basics and discuss terms. It would be like arguing with Mormons. Yes, they use the same terms, but put different meanings into them. So, go in peace.

 

[cygnusx1]

Good point. Why would God save anyone that He knows is going to end up in hell anyway? Makes no biblical sense. If Swordmaster is correct, then God already knows if he'll end up in hell. What's the point of persevering in the faith if in the end, it's for nothing.

and I have asked this question years ago ;

does God save those He foreknows will be saved , or does God save those He also foreknows will be saved then lost ?

and no Arminian wishes to answer it !

you see , it looks OK to the natural mind to say God saves those who he forsees will believe (predestination is kicked out by this method) and those he forsees will not believe , BUT the Arminians always forget the third catorgory ; those with tempory faith . Thus the greatest weakness with the Arminian view which I will exploit , is what about those who fall away? , are they elected on the basis of their faith , even though God forsees it's ONLY a tempory faith ? that would mean ;

God looks through time at the Apostates , at their faith , and He also looks at their loss of faith and elects them to salvation based upon their faith as well as their LOSS of faith !!

Its a weakness that needs jumping all over .

The other great weakness in the Arminian view is that love cannot be forced , BUT they say "God loves everyone" .... but we know most people have never agreed to this love , so we have Arminians making claims that they themselves under scrutiny CANNOT maintain . I will continue to mention this weakness , I think it is their greatest illogical UNBIBLICAL blunder.

Keep up the good work and continue exposing natural thinking verses the Spiritual mind.

 

[billybtennessee]

You are not justified or glorified unless you are in Christ. And God did predestine us to be conformed to the image of His Son, but being conformed to His image does not save you. It is evidence of salvation. Again, you don't like what it says so you come up with your own interpretation. God calls, God saves, God justifies, God glorifies. You don't do any of that.

Agree. The doctrinal 'isms' and 'ists' interest me none at all. "evidence of salvation" is another term that folks "come up with". The scriptural word for it is "fruit", and personally I see much deeper meaning in the word. One can say 'evidence' and give the impression that it is not really necessary. Granted, it can be used, but it is not the scriptural term.

A person who is 'born again' of the Holy Spirit, a person who has truly been reconciled through Jesus Christ, through the precious sinless blood that He shed, is a NEW CREATION!! They belong to Christ, are in Him. Scripture explains that the 'fruit' will show what kind of tree, vine, it is. A fountain does not send out both sweet water and bitter. This goes a whole lot deeper Brother than 'evidence'. A tree is known by its "fruits', not by the 'evidence'. One can place anything under a tree, bring a piece of fruit from somewhere else, and give 'evidence' that it came from something it did not. The proof is in the fruit, and where it came from, exactly as scripture says.

Lets get real here. There are folks like this in every church, whatever the name, doctrine, they may claim. These folks are not limited to 'calvinist' churches, 'free-will' churches, or 'traditional' churches, or 'restorationist' churches, or any other kind. The doctrine you hold to does not make you REAL. Who, what, one is attached to, will produce the 'fruit', not 'evidence'. Those who are truly IN Jesus Christ, are transformed, new creatures, and are indeed "predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son". No might, no maybe, to it. No 'well, I will go this far, but I can't surrender all'. These are simply not 'real', though they may possibly give 'evidence'. When we come to Jesus Christ, we die, and we are planted into Him.

The high-salary preachers don't preach this today, it affects the offering plate, and the attendance stats. But this is just how it is. And this is how it is, regardless of the doctrinal position one holds. 1st John explains this, ALL the epistles do. If one is in Jesus Christ, abiding in Him, the 'fruit' WILL produce. And we will get pruned, so that MORE fruit will be produced. 'Evidence' has nothing to do with it.

 

[swordmaster]

You are so far off the reservation that to continue would be pointless. You gave redefined terms and concepts that most would not recognize. To have a meaningful discussion would be to go to the very basics and discuss terms. It would be like arguing with Mormons. Yes, they use the same terms, but put different meanings into them. So, go in peace.

I will go in peace, but first I will let you know that the "redefining" as you so call it isn't just me. There's light being shown upon false doctrines such as those you espouse, demonstrating that they are false, and there will be those just like in the days of the Reformation that will remain clinging to their false and dead doctrines of man instead of turning to the Spirit of God for truth.

But, as for redefining terms, I did no such thing. What you hold to...whatever you want to call it...was redefined hundreds of years ago. What I gave you was the correct hermeneutical interpretation and you don't like it because it bites into your theology.

Like I said earlier, all I ask folks to do is look as scripture with a fresh eye, laying aside their preconceptions of what they have been taught to believe, and let the scriptures speak for themselves. Some will, and come to a greater understanding of scripture and truth. Some will not, and so all they will do is cling to their dead theology and maybe, just maybe, stand in God's presence in eternity.

Hosea 4:6
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge…”

Isaiah 5:13
“Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge…”

All I am asking is that you put aside what you think you know, and check to see if its really knowledge of the truth of God's Word...or false doctrine. In other words, don't be a Pharisee, be a Berean.

Blessings...and good luck to you.

 

[Hammster]

I will go in peace, but first I will let you know that the "redefining" as you so call it isn't just me. There's light being shown upon false doctrines such as those you espouse, demonstrating that they are false, and there will be those just like in the days of the Reformation that will remain clinging to their false and dead doctrines of man instead of turning to the Spirit of God for truth.

But, as for redefining terms, I did no such thing. What you hold to...whatever you want to call it...was redefined hundreds of years ago. What I gave you was the correct hermeneutical interpretation and you don't like it because it bites into your theology.

Like I said earlier, all I ask folks to do is look as scripture with a fresh eye, laying aside their preconceptions of what they have been taught to believe, and let the scriptures speak for themselves. Some will, and come to a greater understanding of scripture and truth. Some will not, and so all they will do is cling to their dead theology and maybe, just maybe, stand in God's presence in eternity.

Hosea 4:6
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge…”

Isaiah 5:13
“Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge…”

All I am asking is that you put aside what you think you know, and check to see if its really knowledge of the truth of God's Word...or false doctrine. In other words, don't be a Pharisee, be a Berean.

Blessings...and good luck to you.

Blah, blah, blah.

 

[makeupgirl]

I believe OP that being predestined to salvation is something that every human call, especially since it's God's will that no man should perish. However, many are called, few are chosen. God knew us and everything before the foundation of this world, so I believe when the verses that speaks about being predestinated; it means that God knew from the very beginning who would accept the gift of salvation through his son Jesus and who would reject it. So in answer to your question, how do I know that I have been predestined to salvation? Because I have accepted the gift of salvation by believing on the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Romans 8:28-30
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-6


4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

[Hammster]

I believe OP that being predestined to salvation is something that every human call, especially since it's God's will that no man should perish. However, many are called, few are chosen. God knew us and everything before the foundation of this world, so I believe when the verses that speaks about being predestinated; it means that God knew from the very beginning who would accept the gift of salvation through his son Jesus and who would reject it. So in answer to your question, how do I know that I have been predestined to salvation? Because I have accepted the gift of salvation by believing on the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Romans 8:28-30
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-6

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

I agree with your choice of verses, but they say nothing about God choosing us based upon what choice He saw is making.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

All have been predestined to salvation. All died in Adam, All will be made alive in Christ. Were you predestined to die in Adam, did you make a choice concerning that?

 

[Hammster]

All have been predestined to salvation. All died in Adam, All will be made alive in Christ. Were you predestined to die in Adam, did you make a choice concerning that?

Universalism isn't allowed in this forum.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

Universalism isn't allowed in this forum.

WOW, So much hostility. I was only answering the question.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

Universalism isn't allowed in this forum.

BTW, Just a FYI..You can't ask a question about salvation and not expect to get ALL sorts of answers. Sorry, that my answer was one that upsets you. Sorry that the thought of God saving all men makes you sick.

Oh oops, you are not the OP.

 

[nobdysfool]

BTW, Just a FYI..You can't ask a question about salvation and not expect to get ALL sorts of answers. Sorry, that my answer was one that upsets you. Sorry that the thought of God saving all men makes you sick.

Oh oops, you are not the OP.

No, he was not, and contrary to your statements, no one is upset by your answer, nor was there any hostility shown toward you, nor does the thought of God saving all men "make us sick". It's not Scriptural, and the forum is set up in such a way that Universalism can be discussed in a different forum, and is specifically forbidden from being discussed in this one. I don't make the rules, I must abide by them if I want to participate here, and the same is binding on you.

No hostility, just fact.

 

[Hammster]

WOW, So much hostility. I was only answering the question.

Not hostile. Just the facts. Didn't know if you knew.

 

[Hammster]

BTW, Just a FYI..You can't ask a question about salvation and not expect to get ALL sorts of answers. Sorry, that my answer was one that upsets you. Sorry that the thought of God saving all men makes you sick.

Oh oops, you are not the OP.

Once again, universalism isn't allowed on this forum.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

Not hostile. Just the facts. Didn't know if you knew.

Thanks, but if a questioned is asked about salvation I would assume anybody could answer it according to their beliefs about salvation. Then again, never mind.

 

[Hammster]

Ok, if you say so. Thanks.

I do.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

I do.

Great.

 

[Chris81]

How does someone with a reformed theology explain those who lived by faith but fell away and died before having a chance to reconcile their life with Christ. It seems there are only a few options. One is to deny that these people even exists. Two is to claim that these people are a fraud and their whole life is one massive deception against the true christians. Third and last is to claim that such people have been deceived into believing that they are born again Christians.

Of course the last option posses a dilemma because many have proudly and assuredly proclaimed to be true born again Christians, yet they have found themselves among the fallen. How does a Church elder who faithful serve his church for over 40 years still commit suicide? In the end you maybe able to proclaim yourself as one of the elect, predestined to salvation, but only God in his foreknowledge knows whom will persevere to the end and thus will be predestined to conform to the image of Christ.

I am fine with all of the scripture that has been presented by my Calvinist brethren. I just happen to believe that only God alone has foreknowledge to know ultimately who is saved. I have assurance in faith but absolute certainty of the final outcome of my life I leave that to God. With that I plan to bow out of this discussion. I don't see anything real new being added as of recently.