How do you know that you have been predestined to salvation?

[Chris81]

Brother you have done a fine job of making salvation all about you when its really all about God. I poored out the best that I had to you in my previous post and I dont think you took even a second of your time to really examine what it was that I was saying along with the scriptural support that I provided to back up my statements.

I apologize if I did not respond to your post with the proper due diligence, especially given the time and effort you put into your previous response. I have put a lot of time into posts and have been irritated when others have given very short answers in response. So I hope to answer this post to your satisfaction.

You call that humility? I call it pride. You think its all about you and your ability that you must persevere to the end while completely and totally ignoring the fact that it is God who stated that "He would finish the work that he started in you". Dont you realize that if you lost your salvation and became unborn again "An absured statement" That it would make God a liar because he failed to do what he said that he would do? You did nothing to get yourself saved and you will do nothing to keep yourself saved, God saved your soul and God will keep you saved by his power as he promises to do so in scripture. How you keep overlooking this very promise from God is beyond me.

Just as you rightly point out that Philippians 2:12 must be understood in its proper context, I think we should likewise understand Philippians 1:6 in its context. Let us remember that in this epistle, Paul is writing to a letter to the Philippians and Paul has knowledge of the character of these people and is confident of their salvation based on his observation of their personal conduct. This explained in the next verse 1:7 “It is right for me to think this of you all” (i.e., that God’s perfecting work in them would continue until the day of Christ) because they were standing fast with Paul in the defense and confirmation of the Gospel in the face of growing persecution which, even then, left Paul in bonds. . . .

God was at work in the Philippians to bring them to perfection in the day of Jesus Christ. But His work, far from obviating the necessity of effort on their part, demanded their cooperation and perseverance. This Paul urges upon them: “But whatever be the point that we have already reached, let us persevere in the same course” (3:16 W eymouth).

Paul, (3:3-17) bids them follow his example one who perseveres in simple faith in Christ alone, to the exclusion of all confidence in the flesh, “pressing onward toward the goal, to win the prize to which God through Jesus Christ is calling us upward” (3:14). He reminds them (vv. 18, 19) that he had repeatedly warned them against the example of apostates whose god was the satisfaction of carnal appetites, as indeed he now warns them, “even weeping” . . . . He exhorts them, in contrast to these sensual apostates, to continue to look heavenward in anticipation of the coming of the Savior (vv. 20, 21), in view of which certain prospect he warns them to “stand fast in the Lord” (4:1).26

Context...context...context.... You cant just pick out 1 verse of scripture and make a doctrine out of it, you must read both the before and after passages of scripture. Im not bashing you bro because I used to be in your shoes but im telling you in love that you dont have a good grasp on the word of God. Pay attention to the following passage in Philippians and then take the time to let it all sink in because it backs up the point that I have been so desperately trying to make to you.

I agree with you and I admit that it was inappropriate for me to cherry pick one verse out of that epistle to make a doctrinal point. However, I would counter that it is also inappropriate to just pick Philippians 1:6 and likewise form an entire doctrinal agreement based upon that one verse.

You dont understand the fear and trembling that the auther of this passage has in mind. He is talking about living your life with a reverent fear towards God, not a fear of losing your salvation.

No I understand that fear of God means that we should approach God with a sense of awe and proper respect and I just chose some poor choice of words in that past post. I agree, I think living in some fear of losing your salvation is not a good way of approaching your faith journey in Christ. Love is a far greater motivator than fear.

Would try taking your eyes off of yourself just once and placing them on Christ? Your trusting in works bro and thats dangerous. You either believe on the Lord Jesus Christ or you do not, no one needs to make out a list of selfrighteous works to determine if they are saved or not. You can mark my word on this if you are trusting in your works to save you then your lost.

I am not looking for a list of self righteous works that would identify someone as a true christian. Works have no value to save based on their own merit. Works must be performed as a calling of our faith.

No, I am just interested in how a Calvinist identifies the marks of one with true faith. It seems as though there is a distinction made between one who is has real faith and those whom are deceived. At least that is what I am picking up from reading these posts. Quite simply what is that distinction?

 

[Chris81]

And your error is that you believe it is up to you to keep yourself saved.

I understand my faith as a relationship with Christ, I can do nothing alone, but must cooperate with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Chris81]

So in one sense you are assured of your salvation but in another that assurance is conditioned on your behavior?

No salvation is conditioned on faith for which is the basis of assurance.

You are told to work your own salvation with fear and trembling because he whole of salvation is three stages. We are saved in the past from the penalty of sin (justification), we being saved in the present from the power of sin (sanctification), and we will be saved in the future from the presence of sin (glorification).

That is a really good explanation!

There two types of faith, nominal and saving. Those with nominal faith have mentally accepted Christ in their lives but have not experienced a change of life while those with saving faith have changed their lives (sometimes progressively) in accordance to that faith. The change is not a condition for the faith but a result of saving faith. Is not what we do but for who's glory.

Excellent this has to be the first explanation I have yet seen on this thread. Thank you!

Now let us say that a persons life has changed after they received nominal faith. How is that explained? Would you credit that change to their own works and not Christ? If they likewise credit this change to their faith, do you believe that it is the work of their own mind?

I guess I have witnessed people with nominal faith in my own life who never really went beyond a mental acknowledgement of Christ dying for their sin and that they had to believe that to be saved. However I do know family member of friend of mine who seemed to live a faithful life for Christ but had a mental break down and committed suicide. It is not fair for me to expect you to provide an answer to this problem but I just wanted to point out that sometimes determining someones salvation can be a very difficult challenge.

 

[Chris81]

John 3:18
18"(AC)He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of (AD)the only begotten Son of God.


The plain sense of this text is that if one believes now, he is not condemned (lost) now and will not be condemned later (Rom. 8:1). John (5:24) adds that such a man "......and (X)does not come into judgment, but has (Y)passed out of death into life." In short, a present act of faith assures one of never being condemned. Just as one is condemned "already" for not believing in Christ, even so one is saved 'already" for believing in Him.

How did you derive from John 3:18 that one must only believe once, it seems that it would make more sense if it were an active belief. Typically when I say that I believe in something it rarely means that at some point in time in the past I believed this or I only believe something at this one present point of time. My belief tends to be ongoing and active, not a one time passive act.

So are you saying that they knew that they were saved because of what they had done? Are you suggesting a works based salvation here?

How is remaining in faith now a work. Furthermore why does the bible tell anyone they must persevere in their faith if one plays no part in one's own salvation?

 

[Rightglory]

Hentenza,

I am His, Rightglory. Nothing can take me out of His hand. So yes, I humbly know that I am an elect.

But the fake, the nominal, whatever other kind of faith that has been listed, that person can say the very same thing. They can say it and believe it for 50 years, and then have a crisis and reject God. They could have been better fruit bearers than what you call those with saving faith.

You have still not answered how you know that you are saved and will not be one that falls, thus comes under the phrase, he was never saved in the first place?

I know in my heart brother. It matters not what you or anyone thinks since my election is between me and the Lord.

That is true. But you really don't know for certain.

Now, just a cursory read of John proves the preservation of the saints. Here is a small sample:

John 3:18
18"(AC)He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of (AD)the only begotten Son of God.

The plain sense of this text is that if one believes now, he is not condemned (lost) now and will not be condemned later (Rom. 8:1). John (5:24) adds that such a man "......and (X)does not come into judgment, but has (Y)passed out of death into life." In short, a present act of faith assures one of never being condemned. Just as one is condemned "already" for not believing in Christ, even so one is saved 'already" for believing in Him.

WEll that is a very nice theology to have and believe. But that is not what those verses say in the least.

John 3:18 is in the present tense active. OUr not being condemned depends solely upon believing. Rom 8:1, confirms that if we are IN Christ, we will not be condemned.

But there is a huge contingency in that verse. As long as we do not walk in the flesh. Now, if what you say is true, then Paul is just writing ballast here. Because it matters now how you walk or what you do, If you believed once, it is finite.

Yet not a single verse in all of scripture ever says that. It is contingent upon belief , but our belief must be constant. We are being saved. There is NOTHING about our journey that is finite in this life. This is why you do not know if you are saved in the future. In the future you may be one of those that denies Christ. If you deny Him, He will deny you. That is a promise by the way.

How do you know that you cannot fall away?
Because:
John 6
37"(AY)All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

that works well for God. It is His promise of Himself toward you. But where is your promise of your committment to Him. We do have a mutual relationship here. You need to believe, He does not either force you to believe, nor does he hold you against your will. You can reject Him.

This is what the OP is asking. Where is the guarantee that you can give for man in this relationship?

You have not seen any because there aren't any. Man can not guarantee their salvation since even faith is the work of God. If man could guarantee their own salvation then Christ died in vain. God guarantees the salvation of those who believe in the Son (John 3:16) because those that He predestined, He called, those He called He also justified, and those He justified He also glorified (Rom. 8:29-30).

Then how can you so emphatically state that you will be saved now and in the future. Do you actually know your future?

Man guaranteeing his faith would not effect the death of Christ. That is speaking of two different salvations.

John 4:15 has no guarantee in it. It is contingent on believing. If you no longer believe, then you no longer will be saved. Our personal salvation is contingent on we believing. God does not do your believing. He also did not predestinate you to believe.

Rom 8:29-30 is not a guarantee either. Since all men are called, believers would obviously be called. If we believe, or accept that call, then we will be justified by that faith. and those justified will be glorified. But where is the guarantee?

It all depends on you believing and remaining faithful. Your belief must be constant. If you lose faith, you are no longer believing, and if no longer believing you can be condemned.

So are you saying that they knew that they were saved because of what they had done? Are you suggesting a works based salvation here?

we are being saved through faith. That is why works of righteousness is the requirement of faith.

If you do not have the works, you do not have the faith. Faith and works cannot be separated. We will give an account of what we do. We need to be doers, not just hearers. James 2:14.

Do you really think that we were created to just lie in our hammocks and God was going to do all the work. Works were created for us to do. He created the world in part so He could have us do work in this world. Adam was created for a purpose. We have the same purpose. That has never changed. We are co-workers with God. That is why He created us to be in union with Him.

Nonesense. Lets see, Iranaeus tells us in 'Against Heresies" 91.3.18.7 in Roberts and Donaldson, "Ante-Nicene Fathers") that "Unless it had been God who had freely given salvation, we could never have possessed it securely". There is also Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, etc.

I think you should reread the context in each of them. They are referencing the Work of Christ on the Cross. The salvation of the world over death is the guaranteed salvation.

These men did not believe in the perservation of the saints. They believed in assurance.

The fact is that denominations that teach a faith plus works salvation deny that they are essentially teaching a works salvation since their theology posits that one with faith who has no works can not attain salvation (in contrast to Rom. 4:5-6) while one with faith that has works could attain salvation. The end result is works salvation. Man is not good enough to save themselves, therefore, since salvation is the purview of God then He can certainly assure us. If it is God's will then it is God's bill.

it is NEVER faith plus works. It is through faith period. Faith and works are not separated.

"Roman 4:5-6 is referencing the works of the law. We never could save ourselves from the fall, by doing works. That is why Christ was needed, and we are simply justified by believing He did it for us. But that is not what faith is about. That is what Christ did for us, that we could not do.

YOu have a lot of things confused. You are conflating what Christ accomplished for us, and then what man is required to do regarding the offer of communion with God. This latter part is impossible unless Christ first saved mankind from the fall. Two very different and distinct aspects of salvation.


This latter part, our individual salvation, has nothing to do with the fall even. It has all to do with why we were created and then saved from the fall.

What Christ accomplished man cannot effect, nor affect, nor even deny. It is imposed on us the same way we were created.

But the why we were created has never changed just because the fall took place. we are required to do the same as Adam was doing before the fall.

 

[cygnusx1]

No I am just interested in how a Calvinist identifies the marks of one with true faith. It seems as though there is a distinction made between one who is has real faith and those whom are deceived. At least that is what I am picking up from reading these posts. Quite simply what is that distinction?

its not difficult , it's how much they love the Lord and brethren.

one has the assurance of salvation means one is also assured of perseverance , there are many scriptures that teach it , try "make your calling and election sure , if you do this you will not fall"

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Because the Spirit of Christ,and the Father beareth witness Hisself within our spirit's that we are the children of GOD! But far less Christians are given the measure of Grace,and faith by Christ in this life to grasp,understand,know,and "believe" in their personal eternal election of being chosen and predestined in CHrist unto Salvation before the foundatrion of the world! Only by The Supernatural Power of GOD'S Spirit will a man ever believe this doctrine to be true for himself! Otherwise he will scoff,and hiss at the mere thought of it,and despise what has become (((our))) greatest comfort to know, above all things!!!

 

[swordmaster]

"How do you know that you have been predestined to salvation?"




I can help you out here. The answer is: No, you were not predestined to salvation in the sense that some proclaim it so.

God wants all men to come to Him and be saved, for He loves all men. However, in order for men to be saved, they have to love God. If God predestined man to salvation, then He causes them to love Him, without choice, and this is NOT love. God desires intimate and personal love relationships with mankind, and predestinating men to salvation defeats the purpose that God created us for. He will not do that.

The passages that most quote for predestination say that those in Christ are predestined to this and to that, NOT that those who are in Christ were predestined to be in Christ, and there is not one passage in scripture that teaches this. This is man reading between the lines to see what he wants to see without a shred of scripture to demonstrate it (aside from those that are pulled out of context in order to prove their point...but they don't see it as that).

We have eternal life by entering into the new covenant and then remaining there. Christ is the incarnation and embodiment of that covenant...


Isaiah 42:6
"I am the LORD; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations,

This is a Messianic prophecy and over-looked quite frequently. Therefore, when we are in Christ, we are in the covenant, and careful examination of the passages that speak of abiding or remaining in Christ demonstrate this.

Enter into the covenant, then remain abiding in the covenant by remaining in Christ, and you will have eternal life. Salvation is not eternal life, it is part of the atonement, given so that we can enter into the presence of God...so that we can enter into an intimate personal loving relationship with the Living God!

Blessings!

 

[Hammster]

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

It says what it says.

 

[Brother Chris]

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

It says what it says.

They don't like what it says, therefore they won't believe what it says. They have to change the meaning or interpretation to fit their doctrine. The Jehovah's witnesses do the same when they can't understand how Jesus is God.

 

[swordmaster]

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

It says what it says.

Yes, it does. It states that those who God foreknew would be in Christ, them He has predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. It does not say that God predestined them to be in Christ, and to interpret as such is a misinterpretation.

 

[swordmaster]

They don't like what it says, therefore they won't believe what it says. They have to change the meaning or interpretation to fit their doctrine. The Jehovah's witnesses do the same when they can't understand how Jesus is God.

I am not the one changing the meaning here, so you should watch were you step. I like what it says, without the scripture twisting. Is there another passage that you think supports what this one doesn't? Please provide it.

By the way, I have been witnessing to JW's for 20 years, they don't twist the scriptures in the case of not understanding that Jesus is God, this is simply what they are brainwashed into believing.

 

[Brother Chris]

Yes, it does. It states that those who God foreknew would be in Christ, them He has predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. It does not say that God predestined them to be in Christ, and to interpret as such is a misinterpretation.

They are predestined to be in Christ, read the rest of the verse you didn't quote, "30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." You are not justified or glorified unless you are in Christ. And God did predestine us to be conformed to the image of His Son, but being conformed to His image does not save you. It is evidence of salvation. Again, you don't like what it says so you come up with your own interpretation. God calls, God saves, God justifies, God glorifies. You don't do any of that.

 

[cygnusx1]

Yes, it does. It states that those who God foreknew would be in Christ, them He has predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. It does not say that God predestined them to be in Christ, and to interpret as such is a misinterpretation.

why add to scripture ?

if you just accepted what it does say without adding man made ideas to the passage you just might get something that is right under your nose ;

Foreknowing is foreloving , "depart from me I never knew you" .

It is people and people only God is said to foreknow , NEVER what they will do or what they might be .......

tell us , (this ought to be good)

does God save those He foreknows will be saved , or does God save those He also foreknows will be saved then lost ?

 

[swordmaster]

They are predestined to be in Christ, read the rest of the verse you didn't quote, "30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

You are not justified or glorified unless you are in Christ. And God did predestine us to be conformed to the image of His Son, but being conformed to His image does not save you. It is evidence of salvation. Again, you don't like what it says so you come up with your own interpretation. God calls, God saves, God justifies, God glorifies. You don't do any of that.

First, I didn't quote any verse, that was hammster.

Second, lets try again...

Romans 8:29-30
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

You have correctly said that being predestined does not "save" you, for this is predestination to be conformed to the image of His Son. Those who are in Christ are predestined to be conformed so, those in Christ are justified, called, and glorified, just as you have again correctly interpreted. We agree on this...so again, it seems that you don't know what you are talking about when you say that I don't like what it says.

It also seems, that you are not looking at the big picture if you think this all means that you were predestined to eternal life. Have you forgotten the beginning of the chapter? "IF" we remain in Christ and walk in the spirit, then all these things dwell within us. Can you "fall away" from Christ? The answer, again, is yes, otherwise there would not be the warning to cease from walking in the flesh...

Romans 8:12-14
12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.


Neither you, nor myself, were ever predestined to eternal life, for that destroys the purpose of God for creating man in the first place. Paul tells the brothers in Christ that if they do not walk in the spirit, they will die, why? Because only those who walk in the spirit can hear the voice of the Spirit and walk in obedience to Him.

For the most part, the Church today is jacked-up, preaching and teaching false doctrines because the ministry of yester-year failed to understand covenant principles in their interpretation of scripture. We are not that unfortunate, which is why I stress purchasing some study aids, lexicons, and some good interlinear new testaments and study the Word for yourself, throwing away our preconceived notions. Until then, the Church of Christ will never come to the unity of maturity that God wants us to come to.

Blessings!

 

[Brother Chris]

why add to scripture ?

if you just accepted what it does say without adding man made ideas to the passage you just might get something that is right under your nose ;

Foreknowing is foreloving , "depart from me I never knew you" .

It is people and people only God is said to foreknow , NEVER what they will do or what they might be .......

tell us , (this ought to be good)

does God save those He foreknows will be saved , or does God save those He also foreknows will be saved then lost ?

Good point. Why would God save anyone that He knows is going to end up in hell anyway? Makes no biblical sense. If Swordmaster is correct, then God already knows if he'll end up in hell. What's the point of persevering in the faith if in the end, it's for nothing.

 

[swordmaster]

tell us , (this ought to be good)

does God save those He foreknows will be saved , or does God save those He also foreknows will be saved then lost ?

Again, you have learned very little. Salvation is part of the atonement, anyone who comes to Christ, is baptized and receives the Spirit also receives the atonement, for it comes with the Spirit.

Does everyone who receives the atonement remain in eternal life? If that is what you are asking, the answer is no. But you fail to understand this because you fail to understand the workings of the new covenant. If you are not participating in the covenant, then you do not have eternal life, no matter what you think or believe.

I hope that you are all in the covenant.

 

[Brother Chris]

First, I didn't quote any verse, that was hammster.

Second, lets try again...

Romans 8:29-30
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

You have correctly said that being predestined does not "save" you, for this is predestination to be conformed to the image of His Son. Those who are in Christ are predestined to be conformed so, those in Christ are justified, called, and glorified, just as you have again correctly interpreted. We agree on this...so again, it seems that you don't know what you are talking about when you say that I don't like what it says.

It also seems, that you are not looking at the big picture if you think this all means that you were predestined to eternal life. Have you forgotten the beginning of the chapter? "IF" we remain in Christ and walk in the spirit, then all these things dwell within us. Can you "fall away" from Christ? The answer, again, is yes, otherwise there would not be the warning to cease from walking in the flesh...

Romans 8:12-14
12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.


Neither you, nor myself, were ever predestined to eternal life, for that destroys the purpose of God for creating man in the first place. Paul tells the brothers in Christ that if they do not walk in the spirit, they will die, why? Because only those who walk in the spirit can hear the voice of the Spirit and walk in obedience to Him.

For the most part, the Church today is jacked-up, preaching and teaching false doctrines because the ministry of yester-year failed to understand covenant principles in their interpretation of scripture. We are not that unfortunate, which is why I stress purchasing some study aids, lexicons, and some good interlinear new testaments and study the Word for yourself, throwing away our preconceived notions. Until then, the Church of Christ will never come to the unity of maturity that God wants us to come to.

Blessings!

First off, if you don't believe in election unto salvation and eternal life, that's between you and God. I'm not going to call you a heretic based on that. Going back to Romans 8:12-14. Yes, those who live according to the flesh will die. That is true. Those who live according to the Spirit will live. But like it says, only those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. If they are led by the flesh, they don't belong to Him. Read verse 9, "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." If the Spirit of God lives in you, then you are controlled and led by the Spirit. If you are led by the flesh and controlled by the flesh, guess what! You're not a Christian, you don't belong to Christ and you don't have His Spirit. So those who live according to the flesh are NOT Christians. There are warnings in almost all the epistles, warnings to unbelievers and those who think they're saved but are not, by laying out the characteristics of true believers such as: holding fast to the faith, persevering, continuing, loving the brethren, not loving the world, not practicing sin, confessing and repenting of their sins, etc. It is so that no one is self-deceived into thinking they're saved just because they're a member of a church.

 

[swordmaster]

Good point. Why would God save anyone that He knows is going to end up in hell anyway? Makes no biblical sense. If Swordmaster is correct, then God already knows if he'll end up in hell. What's the point of persevering in the faith if in the end, it's for nothing.

And that is where you fail.

 

[swordmaster]

Going back to Romans 8:12-14. Yes, those who live according to the flesh will die. That is true. Those who live according to the Spirit will live. But like it says, only those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. If they are led by the flesh, they don't belong to Him. Read verse 9, "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." If the Spirit of God lives in you, then you are controlled and led by the Spirit. If you are led by the flesh and controlled by the flesh, guess what! You're not a Christian, you don't belong to Christ and you don't have His Spirit. So those who live according to the flesh are NOT Christians.

Not so, and that is not what he is saying.

Romans 8:9-10
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

2 Corinthians 3:17
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Remember, take scripture with scripture. The Spirit of God only dwells in those who are in Christ, and those who are in Christ, Christ dwells in them. You can not be abiding in Christ (which means that Christ is not in you) and yet be deceived that you are "saved" because you simply said a prayer back years ago but never entered into the covenant that gives life. You can believe that you have the Spirit of God all you want to, but if you are deceived than you are deceived, which means that you are arguing a point that you yourself are at fault with.

I am not saying that YOU are not saved, I am saying that people in general, especially in this country, many of them who go to church think they are saved and have the Spirit of God in them, when they do not. I work with such people, and it is sad, but they are stooped in religiosity and care really nothing for learning or walking in God's truth. Therefore what God says about them will come to pass, sadly...

2 Thessalonians 2:10
10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

and

2 Thessalonians 1:8
8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

By the way...what do you think the Gospel is?

There are warnings in almost all the epistles, warnings to unbelievers and those who think they're saved but are not, by laying out the characteristics of true believers such as: holding fast to the faith, persevering, continuing, loving the brethren, not loving the world, not practicing sin, confessing and repenting of their sins, etc. It is so that no one is self-deceived into thinking they're saved just because they're a member of a church.

I will accept that, but you also have to accept that there are warnings and examples of those who are "saved" in the scriptures, such as the example I gave you of Demas, that were saved and then fell away. You can no more disavow this in truth than you can that Jesus is God in the flesh, for it is spelled out very clearly.

Blessings!