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How do you know for sure you are saved?
- Thread starter PentecostalEvangelist
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oworm
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PentecostalEvangelist said:
If there is no such thing as non elect then all must be elect according to your logic?
If God determined something to happen and it does not happen then by your logic God has failed in His determination..........he cannot then be God can He?
Romans 9:18 "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."
Romans 9:22 "What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?
thats true..God does infact love all mankind insofar as he causes his rain to fall on all and causes the sun to shine on all and holds all things together by the power of his word. this is called his general grace which is extended to all people.
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oworm
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PentecostalEvangelist said:Oh My God!
It is YOUR forum!
I am so sorry, I completely, forgot YOU are one of the one and only exclusive select elect, and NO others are ever going to have the opportunity to be saved!
I forgot that YOU, and YOU alone are the only one God loves enough that he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole worl... OOOPS, the sins of oworm.....
I'm Prayin' for 'ya.....
Boy are you going to be surprised when you get to heaven, all those folks YOU thought shouldn't have been there, are going to be there.....
Im sorry. i only asked what your reason was for being here
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PE must be unwilling to acknowledge that some forums have bounds and for good reason--so those who hold the truth can fellowship in it without bewing hassled by those who do not.
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CCWoody
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PentecostalEvangelist said:
Divine TRUTH is self-authenticating:
In fact, it would seem strange if God revealed himself in his Son Jesus Christ and inspired the record of that revelation in the Bible, but did not provide a way for ordinary people to know it. Stated most simply, the common path to sure knowledge of the REAL Jesus is this: Jesus, as he is revealed in the Bible, has a glory--an excellence, a spiritual beauty--that can be see as self-evidently true. It is like seeing the sun and knowing that it is light and not dark, or like tasting honey and knowing that it is sweet and not sour. There is no long chain of reasoning from premises to conclusions. There is a direct apprehension that this person is true and his glory is the glory of God.
The apostle Paul described this path to the knowledge of Jesus in 2 Corinthians 4:4-6:
- The god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God . For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the one who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Notice that Paul speaks of God's enlightening our hearts (as in the work of creation) to apprehend "the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." He is talking about people who have never seen the historical Jesus. How can they know Him and be sure of Him? What they "see" is the verbal portrayal of Jesus in the Gospel, that is, in the apostolic preaching of Christ. This portrayal, Paul says, accompanied by God's shining "in our hearts," appears to us as what is really is--"the glory of God in Christ," or as "the glory of Christ the image of God."
You can see that two things make this path possible. One is the reality of the glory of Jesus Christ shining through his portrayal in the Bible. The other is the work of God to open the eyes of our blinded hearts to see this glory. This is very different from God "telling us" that the Bible is true. It is rather, God's enabling us to see what is really there. This is an important difference. If God whispered in our ear, as it were, that the Jesus of the Bible is true, then the whispering would have the final authority and everything would hang on that. But that is not the path I see in the Bible nor the path I follow. Rather Jesus himself, and His divinely inspired portrayal in the Bible, have the final authority.
The practical effect of this path is that I do not ask you to pray for a special whisper from God to decide if Jesus is real. Rather I ask you to look at the Jesus of the Bible. Look at Him. Don't close your eyes and hope for a word of confirmation. Keep your eyes open and fill them with the full portrait of Jesus provided in the Bible. If you come to trust Jesus Christ as Lord and God, it will be because you see in Him a divine glory and excellence that simply is what it is--TRUE.
Sometimes this path is called the "testimony of the Holy Spirit." The old catechisms say it this way: "The Spirit of God, bearing witness by and with the Scriptures in the heart of man, is alone able to fully persuade it that they are the very Word of God." Be sure to notice that the Spirit persuades "by and with the Scriptures." He does not skirt the Scriptures and substitute private revelations about the Scriptures. He removes the blindness of hostility and rebellion, and thus opens the eyes of our hearts to see the self-evident brightness of the divine beauty of Christ.
The full image of the glory of God that is Christ is breathtaking in its elegance and majesty. All those who truly see it are radically transformed. They see their own sin and they see the perfection of Christ. And they are compelled to have Him for their own. He is glorified in us and we are freed to fully satisfy ourselves in all that He is for us.
We all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into His likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:18)
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CoffeeSwirls
snaps back wash after wash...
If you can admit that you are in violation of the rules that you agreed to, are you able to either pose your questions and consider our answers in the light of scripture? If not, I would suggest you seek a forum that you can agree with. We are much more open to discussion in this forum than some of the other groups, but the rules are installed by admins and the like, not users.
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It would certainly be to everyones liking if everyone who comes would not disgaree, and yet this shall never happen, just as there shall never be unity in the body of Christ.
There are many diverse, differences of opinion, many strange interpretations of scripture, and many, many more headstrong, and extremely confused seekers of truth, who hear no truth, who see no truth, who know no truth, who have no truth, who speak no truth, we all, as one, are equally the same, and yet we are NOT one body in Christ, we are all, as dust in a tornado, scattered violently to the raging, hostile, perverted, corrupt winds of many, many diverse, confusing doctrines of men.
And I am, of all men, certainly the most violently tossed, and in all things, the most horribly hated
I will surely die a violent, hostile, painful, miserable, sickening, disgusting death.
For this, is undeniably what GOD has predestinated for me, I have certainly been elected to suffering.
Like the sounds of the storm calling violently to the calm, prosephying it's destruction, I can hear the storm rushing toward me, coming faster, and faster, drawing closer, and closer, prophesying my own destruction, I see it, I hear it, I feel it, it is meant to be, it shall come to pass, it shall be, it is.
Do you think me insane? Can you see my pain? Can you feel my sorrow? I feel nothing, I see nothing, I hear nothing, I know nothing, I am not, and yet I am, I wish to be, yet I cannot be, I am, and yet I do not wish to be.
Go they say, leave us and come here no more, we cannot abide your presence, you stink, you are a dsigusting foul, and vile perversion, shall we continue to provide for you?
Shall we always labor, by the sweat of our brow for your sustenance?
NO!
We will send you to the tormentors, and watch as you are required, and held accountable for the sins of your youth, you will pay the price in full they cry out with loud voices, we have hated you from the day of your birth, why, they have asked my mother and father, why did you let him come, why didn't you kill this monster in the womb?
And they know only silence, and I see only tears, tears of self hatred, tears of self disgust, tears of hope, hope for an end, hope for an
end....
There are many diverse, differences of opinion, many strange interpretations of scripture, and many, many more headstrong, and extremely confused seekers of truth, who hear no truth, who see no truth, who know no truth, who have no truth, who speak no truth, we all, as one, are equally the same, and yet we are NOT one body in Christ, we are all, as dust in a tornado, scattered violently to the raging, hostile, perverted, corrupt winds of many, many diverse, confusing doctrines of men.
And I am, of all men, certainly the most violently tossed, and in all things, the most horribly hated
I will surely die a violent, hostile, painful, miserable, sickening, disgusting death.
For this, is undeniably what GOD has predestinated for me, I have certainly been elected to suffering.
Like the sounds of the storm calling violently to the calm, prosephying it's destruction, I can hear the storm rushing toward me, coming faster, and faster, drawing closer, and closer, prophesying my own destruction, I see it, I hear it, I feel it, it is meant to be, it shall come to pass, it shall be, it is.
Do you think me insane? Can you see my pain? Can you feel my sorrow? I feel nothing, I see nothing, I hear nothing, I know nothing, I am not, and yet I am, I wish to be, yet I cannot be, I am, and yet I do not wish to be.
Go they say, leave us and come here no more, we cannot abide your presence, you stink, you are a dsigusting foul, and vile perversion, shall we continue to provide for you?
Shall we always labor, by the sweat of our brow for your sustenance?
NO!
We will send you to the tormentors, and watch as you are required, and held accountable for the sins of your youth, you will pay the price in full they cry out with loud voices, we have hated you from the day of your birth, why, they have asked my mother and father, why did you let him come, why didn't you kill this monster in the womb?
And they know only silence, and I see only tears, tears of self hatred, tears of self disgust, tears of hope, hope for an end, hope for an
end....
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rnmomof7
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CCWoody said:
Excellent Woody ! I miss seeing you around more.
Indeed the word of God tells us that
Mat 13:16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them
This is why one must have the Holy Spirit must quicken you and convict you of Sin and lead you to the truth BEFORE God gives you Faith and repentance.
Elected - Summoned - Regenerated - Converted - Justified - Adopted- Sanctified - Preserved
Amen Brother !
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And yet still NO ONE knows for certain IF they are the Elect, or if they are NOT the elect, there is no absolute assurance in this, NONE, it is nothing more than a very slim, and even more uncertain 50-50 chance, a blindmans never to be seen vision, a deaf mans never to be heard sound, a mystery that will forever remain, unknown.
Only those who are presumed to be are to be, and they still know not if they are, or they are not, who calls the name, who speaks the sounds to be heard by the hearers, who can hear, who cannot, what is faith, it is not, it is, it was, it shall be?
Whose names are engraved in the scrolls of justification, whose names are not, whose name were to be there written, and whose names were not there to be seen?
Who has no hope? Who is to blame? Is his blood so vile, so disgusting, and unclean? So worthless, and useless, and to some, of no avail?
What profit is in the sacrifice? NONE, if it is as it has been written down in the honored scrolls of the learned theologians among the most respected men of the company of the wise and righteous unmatched teachers of knowledge and
understanding.
I shall not hear, I cannot hear, I must not hear, I shall not see, I cannot see, I must not see, I shall not know, I cannot know, I must not know, I shall not speak, I cannot speak, I must not speak, I am among all men, the most vile, the most disgusting, I am NOT, for I was not to be, my name is not there, it shall not be there, it was not meant to be there, it cannot be there, it is NOT there...
Only those who are presumed to be are to be, and they still know not if they are, or they are not, who calls the name, who speaks the sounds to be heard by the hearers, who can hear, who cannot, what is faith, it is not, it is, it was, it shall be?
Whose names are engraved in the scrolls of justification, whose names are not, whose name were to be there written, and whose names were not there to be seen?
Who has no hope? Who is to blame? Is his blood so vile, so disgusting, and unclean? So worthless, and useless, and to some, of no avail?
What profit is in the sacrifice? NONE, if it is as it has been written down in the honored scrolls of the learned theologians among the most respected men of the company of the wise and righteous unmatched teachers of knowledge and
understanding.
I shall not hear, I cannot hear, I must not hear, I shall not see, I cannot see, I must not see, I shall not know, I cannot know, I must not know, I shall not speak, I cannot speak, I must not speak, I am among all men, the most vile, the most disgusting, I am NOT, for I was not to be, my name is not there, it shall not be there, it was not meant to be there, it cannot be there, it is NOT there...
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Beoga
Sola Scriptura
PE-
If we can have no assurance of our election, if we cannot know for certain, then why did Peter command us to make our calling and election sure?
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
If we can have no assurance of our election, if we cannot know for certain, then why did Peter command us to make our calling and election sure?
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
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CCWoody
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rnmomof7 said:
Well, you know, it is like this....
Play with Pentecostals on CF or do something to make some money. You figure it out. It's not like I don't like Pentecostals cause, after all, I used to be one and there ain't nothing more fun than to play with a Pentecostal. And, I'm still your friendly neighborhood Charismatic Calvinist, aren't I?
But, hey, it is a cash flow thing you see.
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littleapologist said:
I never said YOU couldn't I said I cannot, and I never shall, I have learned, in these past few days, this one absolute unchanging truth, GOD hates yes, I know, God does certainly hates, he hates indeed, indeed, I know, that he hates me......
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CCWoody said:
I am that thing that so much disgusts you, I am, and shall be, that thing, that thing, that thing, that vile, rotten, disgusting, stinking thing that so much disgusts you....
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CCWoody
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PentecostalEvangelist said:And yet still NO ONE knows for certain IF they are the Elect, or if they are NOT the elect, there is no absolute assurance in this, NONE, it is nothing more than a very slim, and even more uncertain 50-50 chance, a blindmans never to be seen vision, a deaf mans never to be heard sound, a mystery that will forever remain, unknown.
Well, I know.
You should learn to lighten up. A first step would be by becoming a Calvinist. We have more fun. And you get to know the secret interpretation of all those confusing passages of Scripture (they came with my secret Calvinist decoder ring.)
Now, along the point I made with my first post, specifically that God has not skirted the Scriptures, but used the Scriptures as the means by which He communicates divine truth and brings his children into the fold. In the same manner, He also communicates to them the assurance of their salvation.
1Jo 5:13 GB
(13) These things haue I written vnto you, that beleeue in the Name of that Sonne of God, that ye may knowe that ye haue eternall life, and that ye may beleeue in the Name of that Sonne of God.
BTW, you are invited to take your stab at this thread that I started which has to do with election. (13) These things haue I written vnto you, that beleeue in the Name of that Sonne of God, that ye may knowe that ye haue eternall life, and that ye may beleeue in the Name of that Sonne of God.
Shredding the myth of Election by foreseen faith one verse at a time
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rnmomof7
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CCWoody said:
LOL ... you and that decoder ring !
Exactly
"union with Christ... underlies all of soteriology."
- John Calvin
His Chosen Ones?
by Spurgeon
In the very beginning, when this great universe was in the mind
of God, like unborn forests in a cup of acorns; long before the
echoes walked in the quiet solitudes; before the mountains
were brought forth; and long before the light flashed through
the sky, God loved His chosen men and women. Before there
were men and women--when the heavens were not yet
fanned by an angel's wing; when space itself did not an exist;
when there was nothing but God alone; even then, in that
loneliness of Deity, and in that deep quiet and depth, His heart
moved for His chosen ones. Their names were written on His
heart, and they became dear to His soul.
For this God is our God for ever and ever;
he will be our guide even to the end. Psalm 48:14
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I would say that this verse is what lets me understand and know that I am saved. Even I can understand that and Praise God!
PE, how do you understand that verse?
BTW, I didn't get that secret decoder ring, just the mind that God has given me that he is fashioning to be like His son!
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rmwilliamsll
avid reader
is my secret decoder ring in the mail?
i wrote an essay on assurance of faith and would be thankful if anyone has things to add to it. it is a neat and useful topic. thanks for the input here.
http://www.dakotacom.net/~rmwillia/lesson13_essay.html
i wrote an essay on assurance of faith and would be thankful if anyone has things to add to it. it is a neat and useful topic. thanks for the input here.
http://www.dakotacom.net/~rmwillia/lesson13_essay.html
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CCWoody
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JJB said:
Gads. How are we going to swear you in and get you to that secret society meeting being held you know where? Just to let the cat out of the bag, this weekend's topic is:
"If Benny Hinn was a Calvinist, he'd have better hair."
I'll see if I can find out where your ring is hiding. In the meantime, you practice your secret handshake.
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CCWoody
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rmwilliamsll said:
I'll check on your essay.
In the meantime, you have to send in the coupon in the box of Servetus flakes cereal to get your ring. Better hurry, the rave known as the Reformation is in full swing, despite the fact that that killjoy Arminius has tried to shut us down. You'll need your ring to get in.
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