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Paul (or whoever wrote Ephesians) is not denying that good works are needed for salvation - Romans 2:6-7 shows they are - he is denying that salvation is limited to Jews. The works here are, in context, the works of the Law of Moses, which only Jews can perform."For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
Blood Bought 1953 said in post #99:
. . . you are confusing obedience with salvation . . .
Blood Bought 1953 said in post #99:
. . . one can never be perfectly obedient and that is what God demands if you want to be a legalist . . .
Blood Bought 1953 said in post #99:
. . . one can never be perfectly obedient and that is what God demands if you want to be a legalist . . .
Blood Bought 1953 said in post #99:
. . . obedience will follow your faith in Christ . . .
justbyfaith said in post #100:
The health of the plant is dependent on the root not the fruit.
justbyfaith said in post #100:
Now the root has to do with the message of the gospel, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. The root has to do with our faith in these facts; and how we are forgiven of every sin through these facts and our faith in them.
justbyfaith said in post #100:
The works that we do must be based solely and completely on our love for Christ which comes as our thankfulness overflows over what He did for us so freely.
justbyfaith said in post #103:
Romans 2:6-7 says to me only that faith is an attitude...not that we are in any way saved by our works.
Incorrect. You cannot lose salvation once you are born again. Once saved, always saved. We will all stumble occasionally but we will remain changed forever. Now if there is someone who permanently leaves the faith, they are what is known as a false-convert and one who was never truly born again to begin with. "they were never of us". We are saved by GRACE through FAITH, plain and simple. Please understand this and stop preaching false works-based doctrine.But ultimate salvation requires that we bear fruit.
Also, initial salvation by grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:1-5) does not automatically produce good works. That is why Christians must be careful to maintain good works (Titus 3:8), and why it is possible for Christians to wrongly employ their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).
DM25 said in post #106:
we are saved through grace by faith alone.
DM25 said in post #106:
Works come after you are saved . . .
DM25 said in post #106:
. . . repentance begins automatically the moment you confess Jesus as your Lord (the holy spirit comes in you and convicts you of your sin).
DM25 said in post #106:
Good works and sinning less is simply evidence of being saved and doesn't come from our own effort but it comes from Christ.
DM25 said in post #106:
We are not saved by our works so no one can boast.
DM25 said in post #107:
Now if there is someone who permanently leaves the faith, they are what is known as a false-convert and one who was never truly born again to begin with.
DM25 said in post #107:
"they were never of us".
DM25 said in post #107:
We are saved by GRACE through FAITH, plain and simple.
DM25 said in post #107:
Please understand this and stop preaching false works-based doctrine.
Why, then, does Paul write in Romans 2,6-7 that eternal life is ganted based on what we have done, and to those who persist in doing good?Paul is saying clearly that our works don't save us...we are saved only through the finished work of Christ on the Cross...1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Then you are clearly misreading it. It very clearly says eternal life is based on what we do, and is awarded to those who persist in doing good.Romans 2:6-7 says to me only that faith is an attitude...not that we are in any way saved by our works.
If eternal life is based on what we do, then Ephesians 2:8-9 is a lie; and your next step is to take some scissors and cut it out of your Bible (but before you do, be careful to understand Revelation 22:19).Then you are clearly misreading it. It very clearly says eternal life is based on what we do, and is awarded to those who persist in doing good.
What is being preached is the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God, which, sadly, many Christians have become unable to endure (cf. 2 Timothy 4:2-4): that Biblical Christianity is a works-righteousness religion.
Some people say it is all God's work and YOU don't do a thing. Some say you have to believe and repent and God will save you. Some say that you have to work out your own salvation. A few say everybody is saved. So how do you get saved and is it all God's work, some your own work, or something else?
Excellent explanation, brother. It always amazes me how many folks get the cause/effect inverted in this regard.Absolutely false. Titus 3:4-7 shows clearly that our salvation is not by works of righteousness which we have done; but through his mercy.
Grace and works are mutually exclusive when it comes to what saves us (makes us the elect)...Romans 11:5-6.
Salvation is not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9). It does not say in this passage that it is referring "only to initial salvation". That is something that you have added.
The regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost will create in us an attitude wherein we will desire to do good works. Our hearts are changed; and good works are the evidence of such a transformation of the heart.
But the root is faith in Jesus Christ. Works don't save us in the slightest (Ephesians 2:9). Rather, they show forth as the evidence that we are saved, that we have been transformed from the inside out.
A person can have all kinds of good works and still be a worker of iniquity, unsaved (Matthew 7:22-23).
Focus on having your roots planted firmly in the ground, and you will bear fruit. Focus on bearing fruit, and your roots very likely won't be planted in the ground; and you will not even be able to bear the right kind of fruit. Instead of drawing up nourishment from the vine, you would be focused on striving to produce fruit. But fruit is not produced that way; it is only produced when the branch receives the proper nourishment. The nourishment flows into the branch and then to the tip of the branch where it begins to form the fruit out of what is being sent to the tip of the branch.
In line with the view of at least some scholars, I am confident that the works in 2:9 are not good works in general, they are the works of the Law of Moses.If eternal life is based on what we do, then Ephesians 2:8-9 is a lie.
Sanctification is completely a work of the Holy Spirit. It happens as we absorb the word of God and he transforms us by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:1-2, Psalms 119:11). re #113.
I partially disagree. I agree our motivation to not sin (become sanctified) is given us by the Holy Spirit. The desire to renew our minds is the result, but we have a little effort on our part. It's not magical nor is it instantaneous. It is a process by which we are conscious of what decisions we are going to make and temptation continues to pound on us each and every day.
2Timothy 2:
22 Run from temptations that capture young people. Always do the right thing. Be faithful, loving, and easy to get along with. Worship with people whose hearts are pure. 23 Stay away from stupid and senseless arguments. These only lead to trouble, 24 and God’s servants must not be troublemakers. They must be kind to everyone, and they must be good teachers and very patient.
When Joseph was approached by the Pharaohs' wife to lay with her, he fled from her. It took action on his part of avoid the temptation she was offering.
We are also told that we must be in the world, but we should not be of the world. That implies behavior on a conscious level not an unconscious level.
Ephesians 4:22-24 instructs us to put off the old self and put on the new. Ephesians 6 tells us to put on the full armor of God and stand fast against the devil. Colossians 3:5 commands us to put to death what is earthly in us. 1 Timothy 6:12 urges us to fight the good fight. Luke 13:24 exhorts us to strive to enter the narrow gate.
There is effort necessary on the part of the Christian. To exhort otherwise will and has misled many who came to believe they didn't have to do anything to change and then found change wasn't happening. These were the seeds that fell on shallow ground!
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