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How do you get saved?

JESUS=G.O.A.T

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No contradictions.......Paul wrote to gentiles.....Peter was writing to his fellow Jews....Peter confessed that Paul’s message was “ hard to understand”, but acknowledged it was valid Scripture.....If they were preaching identical doctrine, Peter’s explanation would not have been necessary.....All the Bible is Truth......Paul’s message was true for the gentiles, Peter’s message was true for his Jewish listeners

No contradictions.......Paul wrote to gentiles.....Peter was writing to his fellow Jews....Peter confessed that Paul’s message was “ hard to understand”, but acknowledged it was valid Scripture.....If they were preaching identical doctrine, Peter’s explanation would not have been necessary.....All the Bible is Truth......Paul’s message was true for the gentiles, Peter’s message was true for his Jewish listeners


There are a lot of problems with your argument

1. If anyone would get a special privileged easier way to get the Holy Ghost it would be the jews....they are JEsus people. We become "Spiritual Jews" but they are already Jews.


2. Paul went out of his way to say that the same salvation the Jews received the Gentiles can receive.. whenever he addressed "racism".so for you to claim the gentiles have a different one would be false. If anything that would just cause more racism don't you think? "Oh the gentiles need and easier path to salvation becuase they are too dumb to receive the one we got."

Romans 10:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,



3. To further prove the goal was to unite the JEws and gentiles and not divide them i'll prove to you that they are expected to get saved the same way.


Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Acts 2:39 King James Version (KJV)

39 For the promise is unto you (Jews), and to your children (descendents of these Jews), and to all that are afar off (Gentiles) , even as many as the Lord our God shall call (Gentiles) _.


But the ultimate chapter that proves that the Gentiles have the same salvation as the Jews....is acts chapter 10. verses 13-15 references the whole (Gentiles are dirty) racism thing. So now lets look at the salvation aspect



acts 10:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized (gotta be baptized!!!), which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (same holy ghost!!!!)

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


This is why Paul preached the same thing.....becuase it's for everyone 2 cori. 7:10 "Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 1 peter 3:21...."baptism doth now save us." titus 3:5 that we are saved by the "washing of regeneration and renewing of the HOly Ghost.




Comment: I hope you receive the WOrd I have given you....but if you got anymore objections i'm willing to discuss them with you and try to lead you to this Truth.
 
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GingerBeer

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I gave you two examples. Dead means dead. You're not sort of dead, have a nasty case of death or just slightly dead and then get better .
Can you describe a time when a dead person cooperated with you?
Well, what you're telling me is how you interpret Paul's statements rather than what Paul wrote. That's acceptable as a comment but it is not acceptable as exegesis given that you already had to modify "dead" to "spiritually dead". And now you write "Dead means dead" when it obviously does not mean quite as dead as being physically dead does. The idea you've given is that these people are "spiritually dead" that's not what "dead" means. It's a theological proposition. Paul says in his letter "dead in trespasses and sins" which looks like a simile meaning "trespasses and sins render a person 'spiritually dead'" but that is not the same as Paul saying that cooperation in one's salvation is "impossible because dead people can't cooperate"?
 
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GingerBeer

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"...we allow that man has choice and that it is self-determined, so that if he does anything evil, it should be imputed to him and to his own voluntary choosing. We do away with coercion and force, because this contradicts the nature of the will and cannot coexist with it. We deny that choice is free, because through man's innate wickedness it is of necessity driven to what is evil and cannot seek anything but evil. ..."
Tell me, if you can, was this "innate wickedness" present in Adam at the moment of his creation? If not when did it first appear? Why did it appear?
 
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GingerBeer

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I do not have a lot of time right now, so I will leave you with this. And I will address Enoch later this evening, you forgot to name Moses, Noah, Abraham, and Cornelius. But I will later.

Not so fast that isolated title is quoted from Scripture in Romans 3:10As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

11there is no one who understands;

there is no one who seeks God.
"As it is written:“There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands;there is no one who seeks God." you quote from Romans 3:10-11 which is part of a section in Romans 3 in which Paul argues that everybody needs to repent because everybody has sinned.The full section says
  • Romans 3:9-20 9 Well: are we any better off? Not at all: we have already indicted Jews and Greeks as being all alike under the dominion of sin. 10 As scripture says: Not one of them is upright, not a single one, 11 not a single one is wise, not a single one seeks God. 12 All have turned away, all alike turned sour, not one of them does right, not a single one. 13 Their throats are wide-open graves, their tongues seductive. Viper's venom behind their lips; 14 their speech is full of cursing and bitterness. 15 Their feet quick to shed innocent blood, 16 wherever they go there is havoc and ruin. 17 They do not know the way of peace, 18 there is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we are well aware that whatever the Law says is said for those who are subject to the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced, and the whole world brought under the judgement of God. 20 So then, no human being can be found upright at the tribunal of God by keeping the Law; all that the Law does is to tell us what is sinful.
When I read that passage (which quotes from Psalm 14:1-3) it says it is about Jews and Greeks and it looks like it is treating them as two groups rather than dealing with each and every individual in each group. I say that because it is absurd to assert that each and every individual Jew and each and every individual Greek sheds blood, does not fear God, creates havoc and ruin everywhere he or she goes, and their tongue (presumably a reference to what they say) is full of cursing and bitterness. So since Paul is dealing in groups to point to individual culpability in the sins mentioned it does not look like Paul is disallowing the possibility of an individual being none of the things mentioned. That is to say, what Paul wrote does not preclude Jesus from being righteous nor Enoch nor any other individual - Jew or Greek - from being righteous if God says that they are, and the wording "not a single one is" wise, or "seeks God" or "does right" obviously excludes Jesus and probably excludes Enoch and anybody else that God says sought him, loved him, served him, and pleased him.

The psalm that Paul quotes from says these things.
  • Psalms 14:1-7 1 The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.' Their deeds are corrupt and vile, not one of them does right. 2 The LORD looks down from heaven at the children of Adam. To see if a single one is wise, a single one seeks God. 3 All have turned away, all alike turned sour, not one of them does right, not a single one. 4 Are they not aware, all these evil-doers? They are devouring my people, this is the bread they eat, and they never call to the LORD. 5 They will be gripped with fear, where there is no need for fear, for God takes the side of the upright; 6 you may mock the plans of the poor, but the LORD is their refuge. 7 Who will bring from Zion salvation for Israel? When the LORD brings his people home, what joy for Jacob, what happiness for Israel!
 
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Athanasius377

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Well, what you're telling me is how you interpret Paul's statements rather than what Paul wrote. That's acceptable as a comment but it is not acceptable as exegesis given that you already had to modify "dead" to "spiritually dead". And now you write "Dead means dead" when it obviously does not mean quite as dead as being physically dead does. The idea you've given is that these people are "spiritually dead" that's not what "dead" means. It's a theological proposition. Paul says in his letter "dead in trespasses and sins" which looks like a simile meaning "trespasses and sins render a person 'spiritually dead'" but that is not the same as Paul saying that cooperation in one's salvation is "impossible because dead people can't cooperate"?

So dead means something else. You have some lexical information to back that up?

νεκρός or nekros, means dead according to BDAG and if we expand the semantic domain we can get powerless or inability according to Louw-Nida . No source says it is a theological proposition . So yes, dead means dead. Show me one place where a dead man did anything apart from God.
 
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GingerBeer

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So dead means something else.

No, dead means dead but saint Paul didn't write "dead" without any further information he wrote "dead in your trespasses and sins" and evidently he didn't think that people who were "dead in their trespasses and sins" were incapable of hearing the gospel, responding to it, repenting, and being saved. At least he appears to think that they could do those things, after all he preached the gospel of repentance and faith to Greeks and Jews alike and they were all "dead in their trespasses and sins" when he started preaching to them - possibly some of the Jews were not, some were already followers of Christ like the Ephesian disciples that he encountered and baptised because they had not yet heard of the Holy Spirit - and Paul expected them to repent and believe the good news, didn't he? That is why he preached, hoping that some would believe to the saving of their souls.

You have some lexical information to back that up?

νεκρός or nekros, means dead according to BDAG and if we expand the semantic domain we can get powerless or inability according to Louw-Nida . No source says it is a theological proposition . So yes, dead means dead. Show me one place where a dead man did anything apart from God.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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There are a lot of problems with your argument

1. If anyone would get a special privileged easier way to get the Holy Ghost it would be the jews....they are JEsus people. We become "Spiritual Jews" but they are already Jews.


2. Paul went out of his way to say that the same salvation the Jews received the Gentiles can receive.. whenever he addressed "racism".so for you to claim the gentiles have a different one would be false. If anything that would just cause more racism don't you think? "Oh the gentiles need and easier path to salvation becuase they are too dumb to receive the one we got."

Romans 10:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,



3. To further prove the goal was to unite the JEws and gentiles and not divide them i'll prove to you that they are expected to get saved the same way.


Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Acts 2:39 King James Version (KJV)

39 For the promise is unto you (Jews), and to your children (descendents of these Jews), and to all that are afar off (Gentiles) , even as many as the Lord our God shall call (Gentiles) _.


But the ultimate chapter that proves that the Gentiles have the same salvation as the Jews....is acts chapter 10. verses 13-15 references the whole (Gentiles are dirty) racism thing. So now lets look at the salvation aspect



acts 10:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized (gotta be baptized!!!), which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (same holy ghost!!!!)

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


This is why Paul preached the same thing.....becuase it's for everyone 2 cori. 7:10 "Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 1 peter 3:21...."baptism doth now save us." titus 3:5 that we are saved by the "washing of regeneration and renewing of the HOly Ghost.




Comment: I hope you receive the WOrd I have given you....but if you got anymore objections i'm willing to discuss them with you and try to lead you to this Truth.


http://truthtimeradio.com/audio/Old Covenant New Covenant or Something Else1.mp3

Central air conditioning kicked out here at my home.....very hot......gotta leave for now......check out link.....he can say it better than me
 
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Athanasius377

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No, dead means dead but saint Paul didn't write "dead" without any further information he wrote "dead in your trespasses and sins" and evidently he didn't think that people who were "dead in their trespasses and sins" were incapable of hearing the gospel, responding to it, repenting, and being saved. At least he appears to think that they could do those things, after all he preached the gospel of repentance and faith to Greeks and Jews alike and they were all "dead in their trespasses and sins" when he started preaching to them - possibly some of the Jews were not, some were already followers of Christ like the Ephesian disciples that he encountered and baptised because they had not yet heard of the Holy Spirit - and Paul expected them to repent and believe the good news, didn't he? That is why he preached, hoping that some would believe to the saving of their souls.

If you read the second clause in verse 5 of eph 2:5 you will notice that dead people are made alive by God with Christ . Paul didn't do this, God did . The person who was dead didn't make himself alive, God did .

Tell you what, go to a morgue, pull out the first occupied slab from the refrigerator and preach the Gospel to him . See what happens . If he responds then I take back everything I have written .;)
 
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GingerBeer

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If you read the second clause in verse 5 of eph 2:5 you will notice that dead people

Not "dead people". It says "dead in our sins" and that is not the same thing as "dead people".
  • Ephesians 2:
    "1. And you were dead, through the crimes and the sins 2. which used to make up your way of life when you were living by the principles of this world, obeying the ruler who dominates the air, the spirit who is at work in those who rebel. 3. We too were all among them once, living only by our natural inclinations, obeying the demands of human self-indulgence and our own whim; our nature made us no less liable to God's retribution than the rest of the world. 4. But God, being rich in faithful love, through the great love with which he loved us, 5. even when we were dead in our sins, brought us to life with Christ -- it is through grace that you have been saved- 6. and raised us up with him and gave us a place with him in heaven, in Christ Jesus."
It helps to be accurate. Playing around with what scripture says just so some theology can be 'proved' is a very bad way to read the bible.

are made alive by God with Christ . Paul didn't do this, God did . The person who was dead didn't make himself alive, God did .

Tell you what, go to a morgue, pull out the first occupied slab from the refrigerator and preach the Gospel to him . See what happens . If he responds then I take back everything I have written .;)
 
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Athanasius377

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Not "dead people". It says "dead in our sins" and that is not the same thing as "dead people".
  • Ephesians 2:
    "1. And you were dead, through the crimes and the sins 2. which used to make up your way of life when you were living by the principles of this world, obeying the ruler who dominates the air, the spirit who is at work in those who rebel. 3. We too were all among them once, living only by our natural inclinations, obeying the demands of human self-indulgence and our own whim; our nature made us no less liable to God's retribution than the rest of the world. 4. But God, being rich in faithful love, through the great love with which he loved us, 5. even when we were dead in our sins, brought us to life with Christ -- it is through grace that you have been saved- 6. and raised us up with him and gave us a place with him in heaven, in Christ Jesus."
It helps to be accurate. Playing around with what scripture says just so some theology can be 'proved' is a very bad way to read the bible.

Who did the bringing to life? God did, not you. That's the point. You cannot help yourself be undead .
My friend, dead means dead. Not sick, not unwell but dead. There are not variations of dead there is simply dead. If God the Holy Spirit through Paul meant to say something else He would have. And yes, the language is that strong and for a reason. You issue is with Paul, not me.
 
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GingerBeer

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Who did the bringing to life? God did, not you. That's the point. You cannot help yourself be undead .
My friend, dead means dead. Not sick, not unwell but dead. There are not variations of dead there is simply dead. If God the Holy Spirit through Paul meant to say something else He would have. And yes, the language is that strong and for a reason. You issue is with Paul, not me.
I cannot imagine anyone saying that God is not the one who saves and the one who gives eternal life. If you think that is the topic being discussed you're mistaken.
 
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Some people say it is all God's work and YOU don't do a thing. Some say you have to believe and repent and God will save you. Some say that you have to work out your own salvation. A few say everybody is saved. So how do you get saved and is it all God's work, some your own work, or something else?

Interesting thing is that they all are partially correct. All are saved from the judgment that would come because of sin. But if person rejects that forgiveness, or continues in sin, the forgiveness is not useful.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

Bible tells eternal life is for righteous. And righteousness is like right understanding, wisdom of the just that can be seen in actions. If person is righteous, he produces “fruit” that is righteous. But righteous person doesn’t get eternal life because of the works, but because he understands what is good and right and wants to do that freely.

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38
 
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ladodgers6

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"As it is written:“There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands;there is no one who seeks God." you quote from Romans 3:10-11 which is part of a section in Romans 3 in which Paul argues that everybody needs to repent because everybody has sinned.The full section says
  • Romans 3:9-20 9 Well: are we any better off? Not at all: we have already indicted Jews and Greeks as being all alike under the dominion of sin. 10 As scripture says: Not one of them is upright, not a single one, 11 not a single one is wise, not a single one seeks God. 12 All have turned away, all alike turned sour, not one of them does right, not a single one. 13 Their throats are wide-open graves, their tongues seductive. Viper's venom behind their lips; 14 their speech is full of cursing and bitterness. 15 Their feet quick to shed innocent blood, 16 wherever they go there is havoc and ruin. 17 They do not know the way of peace, 18 there is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we are well aware that whatever the Law says is said for those who are subject to the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced, and the whole world brought under the judgement of God. 20 So then, no human being can be found upright at the tribunal of God by keeping the Law; all that the Law does is to tell us what is sinful.
When I read that passage (which quotes from Psalm 14:1-3) it says it is about Jews and Greeks and it looks like it is treating them as two groups rather than dealing with each and every individual in each group. I say that because it is absurd to assert that each and every individual Jew and each and every individual Greek sheds blood, does not fear God, creates havoc and ruin everywhere he or she goes, and their tongue (presumably a reference to what they say) is full of cursing and bitterness. So since Paul is dealing in groups to point to individual culpability in the sins mentioned it does not look like Paul is disallowing the possibility of an individual being none of the things mentioned. That is to say, what Paul wrote does not preclude Jesus from being righteous nor Enoch nor any other individual - Jew or Greek - from being righteous if God says that they are, and the wording "not a single one is" wise, or "seeks God" or "does right" obviously excludes Jesus and probably excludes Enoch and anybody else that God says sought him, loved him, served him, and pleased him.

The psalm that Paul quotes from says these things.
  • Psalms 14:1-7 1 The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.' Their deeds are corrupt and vile, not one of them does right. 2 The LORD looks down from heaven at the children of Adam. To see if a single one is wise, a single one seeks God. 3 All have turned away, all alike turned sour, not one of them does right, not a single one. 4 Are they not aware, all these evil-doers? They are devouring my people, this is the bread they eat, and they never call to the LORD. 5 They will be gripped with fear, where there is no need for fear, for God takes the side of the upright; 6 you may mock the plans of the poor, but the LORD is their refuge. 7 Who will bring from Zion salvation for Israel? When the LORD brings his people home, what joy for Jacob, what happiness for Israel!

Once again, excellent post GingerBeer, well said. I beg to differ. Paul is addressing that everyone, including the Jews are under the curse of the Law! The Law brings knowledge of sin, and sin brings condemnation & death! There is no life in the Law for sinners; only death! The Jews thought they came in through a different door. But Paul quickly slams that door in verse 3:9What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

Paul is preaching Law here. Look at verse 19Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.


Paul is stripping away our "filthy rags" of righteousness (Isa. 64:6), that we think is good enough to merit favor with God. Paul says, "No One is Righteous", "No One does Good". No One understands or seeks after God. Paul is bringing the hammer down here on our foolish notion that we are righteous, or good enough, to fulfill the Law demands for Perfect Obedience, and merit God's favor. This includes the Jews! Who are in the same boat as the Gentiles!

Paul brings it home in verse, 20For by works of the law (no human being) will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.


Paul is killing the with the Law. That there is no way, no hope, no life, no justification, no merit, no favor, no peace in the Law for sinners!

But then Paul preaches the Gospel to them.
The Righteousness of God Through Faith

21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Wow, I just LOVE Romans! Paul provides the sweet water of the Gospel to the ungodly! Here is the proclamation and announcement of what God did for us as a GIFT! Its absolutely 'FREE', received through Faith Alone, not through the works of the Law! Paul goes into this in more detail in Romans 4. A righteousness apart from the Law has been manifested, which is namely, Christ Jesus!

Romans 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Its Christ who came not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill the broken Covenant of Works the first Adam breached by His disobedience! Christ lifts the curse of the Law; Gal 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”. And with His One Act of Obedience made us righteous!

Paul preaches the Law to strip us of our filthy rags of righteousness (Isa 64:4). And drops the hammer on all us, as to our plight before a Holy Righteous Judge!

To drive sinners to what saves; namely Christ Jesus! The gift for the ungodly who believe, and trust in God who is the Just and the Justifier of the ungodly!

Final note:

Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Hope this helps???

God Bless!
 
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GingerBeer

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Once again, excellent post GingerBeer, well said. I beg to differ. Paul is addressing that everyone, including the Jews are under the curse of the Law! The Law brings knowledge of sin, and sin brings condemnation & death! There is no life in the Law for sinners; only death! The Jews thought they came in through a different door. But Paul quickly slams that door in verse 3:9What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

Paul is preaching Law here. Look at verse 19Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.


Paul is stripping away our "filthy rags" of righteousness (Isa. 64:6), that we think is good enough to merit favor with God. Paul says, "No One is Righteous", "No One does Good". No One understands or seeks after God. Paul is bringing the hammer down here on our foolish notion that we are righteous, or good enough, to fulfill the Law demands for Perfect Obedience, and merit God's favor. This includes the Jews! Who are in the same boat as the Gentiles!

Paul brings it home in verse, 20For by works of the law (no human being) will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.


Paul is killing the with the Law. That there is no way, no hope, no life, no justification, no merit, no favor, no peace in the Law for sinners!

But then Paul preaches the Gospel to them.
The Righteousness of God Through Faith

21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Wow, I just LOVE Romans! Paul provides the sweet water of the Gospel to the ungodly! Here is the proclamation and announcement of what God did for us as a GIFT! Its absolutely 'FREE', received through Faith Alone, not through the works of the Law! Paul goes into this in more detail in Romans 4. A righteousness apart from the Law has been manifested, which is namely, Christ Jesus!

Romans 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Its Christ who came not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill the broken Covenant of Works the first Adam breached by His disobedience! Christ lifts the curse of the Law; Gal 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”. And with His One Act of Obedience made us righteous!

Paul preaches the Law to strip us of our filthy rags of righteousness (Isa 64:4). And drops the hammer on all us, as to our plight before a Holy Righteous Judge!

To drive sinners to what saves; namely Christ Jesus! The gift for the ungodly who believe, and trust in God who is the Just and the Justifier of the ungodly!

Final note:

Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Hope this helps???

God Bless!
Paul isn't preaching Law. He's writing a letter which is a pastoral letter and he is pointing to what he teaches among the gentiles and the Jews so that his Roman readers (many being Jews) know what to expect from him when he eventually arrives in their city. He uses broad categories in Romans 3:1-20. He uses the broad categories to say why Jews and Greeks (gentiles) are in need of a saviour. What he says is aimed towards removing any claim to innocence regarding sins. Jews sin by breaking the law that Moses gave to them and Greeks sin by means of the things he discussed in chapters 1 and 2.

After his argument that everybody needs a saviour Paul goes on to discuss how God saves.
  • Romans 3:21-31 21 God's saving justice was witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, but now it has been revealed altogether apart from law: 22 God's saving justice given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. 23 No distinction is made: all have sinned and lack God's glory, 24 and all are justified by the free gift of his grace through being set free in Christ Jesus. 25 God appointed him as a sacrifice for reconciliation, through faith, by the shedding of his blood, and so showed his justness; first for the past, when sins went unpunished because he held his hand; 26 and now again for the present age, to show how he is just and justifies everyone who has faith in Jesus. 27 So what becomes of our boasts? There is no room for them. On what principle- that only actions count? No; that faith is what counts, 28 since, as we see it, a person is justified by faith and not by doing what the Law tells him to do. 29 Do you think God is the God only of the Jews, and not of gentiles too? Most certainly of gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God; he will justify the circumcised by their faith, and he will justify the uncircumcised through their faith. 31 Are we saying that the Law has been made pointless by faith? Out of the question; we are placing the Law on its true footing.
Considering what you wrote how do you deal with Paul saying "all have sinned" and also "all are justified" if the first all means each and every individual among the Jews and the Greeks sins then does the second all mean that each and every individual among the Jews and Greeks is justified? It looks as though the approach you're recommending to me means that everyone is justified. It looks like you're going to be forced to explain away the second all so that it does not mean what it says while at the same time you want to keep the first all as meaning everyone. Then verse 24 would say "each and every Jew and Greek is justified by the free gift of God's grace through being set free in Christ Jesus" if verse 23 means to say "No distinction is made: each and every Jew and Greek has sinned and lacks God's glory".
 
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ladodgers6

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Paul isn't preaching Law. He's writing a letter which is a pastoral letter and he is pointing to what he teaches among the gentiles and the Jews so that his Roman readers (many being Jews) know what to expect from him when he eventually arrives in their city. He uses broad categories in Romans 3:1-20. He uses the broad categories to say why Jews and Greeks (gentiles) are in need of a saviour. What he says is aimed towards removing any claim to innocence regarding sins. Jews sin by breaking the law that Moses gave to them and Greeks sin by means of the things he discussed in chapters 1 and 2.

Well, we can agree to disagree. Paul goes into chapter 4 contrasting Law & Gospel; works of the Law vs. Faith in Christ. Then Paul continues in chapter 5, contrasting or comparing Adam & Christ; the first Adam with the Last Adam; condemnation & Justification; Death & Life; One act of Disobedience & One Act of Obedience.

How do sinners know they need a Savior? To be saved from what? What does Paul mean in Romans 8: 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Why did Christ have to come in the flesh? Why did Christ have to kill sin in the flesh? Why was Christ born under the Law? Why did Christ fulfill the Law, and not abolish it?

The Gentile do not have an excuse because God did not give them His Law on Stone tablets, like He did with Israel. Read Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

There is no escape from God's Law that judges men and women. This is Law preaching, to let sinners know their evil condition be a Holy God! That under the Law their evil secrets will be exposed. This Law preaching is to let them know, why they need a Savior, a Redeemer, a Rescuer from this curse of the Law! Does this mean that the Law is Sin? Paul anticipates this question in Romans 7:

7What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
After his argument that everybody needs a saviour Paul goes on to discuss how God saves.
  • Romans 3:21-31 21 God's saving justice was witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, but now it has been revealed altogether apart from law: 22 God's saving justice given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. 23 No distinction is made: all have sinned and lack God's glory, 24 and all are justified by the free gift of his grace through being set free in Christ Jesus. 25 God appointed him as a sacrifice for reconciliation, through faith, by the shedding of his blood, and so showed his justness; first for the past, when sins went unpunished because he held his hand; 26 and now again for the present age, to show how he is just and justifies everyone who has faith in Jesus. 27 So what becomes of our boasts? There is no room for them. On what principle- that only actions count? No; that faith is what counts, 28 since, as we see it, a person is justified by faith and not by doing what the Law tells him to do. 29 Do you think God is the God only of the Jews, and not of gentiles too? Most certainly of gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God; he will justify the circumcised by their faith, and he will justify the uncircumcised through their faith. 31 Are we saying that the Law has been made pointless by faith? Out of the question; we are placing the Law on its true footing.
Considering what you wrote how do you deal with Paul saying "all have sinned" and also "all are justified" if the first all means each and every individual among the Jews and the Greeks sins then does the second all mean that each and every individual among the Jews and Greeks is justified? It looks as though the approach you're recommending to me means that everyone is justified. It looks like you're going to be forced to explain away the second all so that it does not mean what it says while at the same time you want to keep the first all as meaning everyone. Then verse 24 would say "each and every Jew and Greek is justified by the free gift of God's grace through being set free in Christ Jesus" if verse 23 means to say "No distinction is made: each and every Jew and Greek has sinned and lacks God's glory".

Well, as I said before, Paul is preaching Law & Gospel here. But to the Jews the Cross became a stumbling block. They believed that their Salvation lied in the Law. Romans 10:2For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Christ is the end of Law for righteousness! What does this mean to you?

Now addressing your point in Romans 5. In Reformed Theology we teach & believe that the Gospel is message is preach to everyone. And that the Redemption in Christ was not exclusive to the Jews only, but it extents to every nation, people, and tribe! (Everyone). I am paraphrasing, I will provide information a bit later. I am dealing with health issues. So please bear with me.

Hope this helps???

God Bless!
 
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Athanasius377

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I cannot imagine anyone saying that God is not the one who saves and the one who gives eternal life. If you think that is the topic being discussed you're mistaken.
Some people say it is all God's work and YOU don't do a thing. Some say you have to believe and repent and God will save you. Some say that you have to work out your own salvation. A few say everybody is saved. So how do you get saved and is it all God's work, some your own work, or something else?

According to your post you were asking if salvation is God's work and you don't do a thing then that is my position. Repentance is necessary but it is a gift from God. Only alive persons having been regenerated can receive the gift of repentance. God is the one that works this miracle and we are the beneficiaries. In short I am a monergist.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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There are a lot of problems with your argument

1. If anyone would get a special privileged easier way to get the Holy Ghost it would be the jews....they are JEsus people. We become "Spiritual Jews" but they are already Jews.


2. Paul went out of his way to say that the same salvation the Jews received the Gentiles can receive.. whenever he addressed "racism".so for you to claim the gentiles have a different one would be false. If anything that would just cause more racism don't you think? "Oh the gentiles need and easier path to salvation becuase they are too dumb to receive the one we got."

Romans 10:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,



3. To further prove the goal was to unite the JEws and gentiles and not divide them i'll prove to you that they are expected to get saved the same way.


Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Acts 2:39 King James Version (KJV)

39 For the promise is unto you (Jews), and to your children (descendents of these Jews), and to all that are afar off (Gentiles) , even as many as the Lord our God shall call (Gentiles) _.


But the ultimate chapter that proves that the Gentiles have the same salvation as the Jews....is acts chapter 10. verses 13-15 references the whole (Gentiles are dirty) racism thing. So now lets look at the salvation aspect



acts 10:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized (gotta be baptized!!!), which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (same holy ghost!!!!)

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


This is why Paul preached the same thing.....becuase it's for everyone 2 cori. 7:10 "Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 1 peter 3:21...."baptism doth now save us." titus 3:5 that we are saved by the "washing of regeneration and renewing of the HOly Ghost.




Comment: I hope you receive the WOrd I have given you....but if you got anymore objections i'm willing to discuss them with you and try to lead you to this Truth.


My post was terrible.....As far as Paul was concerned, there was no longer any difference between the Jew and the Greek, and he preached the Gospel to everyone. I’ve known that for years and should have made that clear.My thinking lately has been distracted from listening to some views I previously was unaware of that make a lot of sense and clear up many seeming contradictions in the NT.It goes roughly like this.....Paul’s letters were an unfolding of the “Mysteries Of God” kept secret until they were revealed to Paul by Jesus.These secrets were not shared by Jesus with His disciples in His earthly ministry.Salvation by grace ,not works....Gentiles being grafted into the Faith.....the Body of Christ with Christ bring the “ head” of this body— not the “King” of an earthly Kingdom......preaching a Gospel based on the belief of the resurrection of Christ for salvation,plus nothing......the Rapture of the Church......all of these thing and more were not preached by Peter, John or James.They were preaching the Jews needed to repent of their act of murdering Jesus, they needed to be water baptized and they needed to show their faith by their works—— things never mentioned by Paul. The letters of Paul are instructions for the previously unknown Body of Christ.The epistles of The disciples and James are addressed to a Jewish audience ( the lost tribes or the twelve tribes) and the books of Hebrews thru Revelations are mostly concerning themselves with being the doctrine for the nation of Israel after the Church is gone.I am spending a great amount of time exploring these things lately and this “rightly dividing” God’s word is fascinating if nothing else.Check out “ truth time radio” if you want to learn more about theses things.The Believers There don’t make any claims that they can’t back up with Scripture.God bless
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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My post was terrible.....As far as Paul was concerned, there was no longer any difference between the Jew and the Greek, and he preached the Gospel to everyone. I’ve known that for years and should have made that clear.My thinking lately has been distracted from listening to some views I previously was unaware of that make a lot of sense and clear up many seeming contradictions in the NT.It goes roughly like this.....Paul’s letters were an unfolding of the “Mysteries Of God” kept secret until they were revealed to Paul by Jesus.These secrets were not shared by Jesus with His disciples in His earthly ministry.Salvation by grace ,not works....Gentiles being grafted into the Faith.....the Body of Christ with Christ bring the “ head” of this body— not the “King” of an earthly Kingdom......preaching a Gospel based on the belief of the resurrection of Christ for salvation,plus nothing......the Rapture of the Church......all of these thing and more were not preached by Peter, John or James.They were preaching the Jews needed to repent of their act of murdering Jesus, they needed to be water baptized and they needed to show their faith by their works—— things never mentioned by Paul. The letters of Paul are instructions for the previously unknown Body of Christ.The epistles of The disciples and James are addressed to a Jewish audience ( the lost tribes or the twelve tribes) and the books of Hebrews thru Revelations are mostly concerning themselves with being the doctrine for the nation of Israel after the Church is gone.I am spending a great amount of time exploring these things lately and this “rightly dividing” God’s word is fascinating if nothing else.Check out “ truth time radio” if you want to learn more about theses things.The Believers There don’t make any claims that they can’t back up with Scripture.God bless


Gotcha I get what you're saying now...you're right it wasn't worded that well but it was worded great here Thanks for explaining. A few things
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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My post was terrible.....As far as Paul was concerned, there was no longer any difference between the Jew and the Greek, and he preached the Gospel to everyone. I’ve known that for years and should have made that clear.My thinking lately has been distracted from listening to some views I previously was unaware of that make a lot of sense and clear up many seeming contradictions in the NT.It goes roughly like this.....Paul’s letters were an unfolding of the “Mysteries Of God” kept secret until they were revealed to Paul by Jesus.These secrets were not shared by Jesus with His disciples in His earthly ministry.Salvation by grace ,not works....Gentiles being grafted into the Faith.....the Body of Christ with Christ bring the “ head” of this body— not the “King” of an earthly Kingdom......preaching a Gospel based on the belief of the resurrection of Christ for salvation,plus nothing......the Rapture of the Church......all of these thing and more were not preached by Peter, John or James.They were preaching the Jews needed to repent of their act of murdering Jesus, they needed to be water baptized and they needed to show their faith by their works—— things never mentioned by Paul. The letters of Paul are instructions for the previously unknown Body of Christ.The epistles of The disciples and James are addressed to a Jewish audience ( the lost tribes or the twelve tribes) and the books of Hebrews thru Revelations are mostly concerning themselves with being the doctrine for the nation of Israel after the Church is gone.I am spending a great amount of time exploring these things lately and this “rightly dividing” God’s word is fascinating if nothing else.Check out “ truth time radio” if you want to learn more about theses things.The Believers There don’t make any claims that they can’t back up with Scripture.God bless


1. Can you list a scripture (or scriptures) that you believe support believing only saves? Rather than believing, repentance, baptism, and holy ghost reception saving?

I will now respond to a few Quotes you made...


1. YOU: "salvation by grace ,not works....Gentiles being grafted into the Faith."

My reply: A work is a good deed that benefits someone else right? How does baptism or repentance benefit anyone but the person doing it? Also the Titus 2:7 says this...
Titus 2:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works

How does one show a pattern of repentance and especially baptism...baptism is a one time event.



2. YOU: "They were preaching the Jews needed to repent of their act of murdering Jesus, they needed to be water baptized and they needed to show their faith by their works—— things never mentioned by Paul"


My Reply: No what Peter preached was for everyone as I've just shown you....let me repost what I posted earlier

Acts 2:39 King James Version (KJV)
39 For the promise is unto you (Jews), and to your children (descendents of these Jews), and to all that are afar off (Gentiles) , even as many as the Lord our God shall call (Gentiles) _.


But the ultimate chapter that proves that the Gentiles have the same salvation as the Jews....is acts chapter 10.



acts 10:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized (gotta be baptized!!!), which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (same holy ghost!!!!)

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.



This gentile Cornelius was told to repent, be baptized, and get the holy ghost just as the Jews did....so for you to argue it is only for the Jews is false.




Lastly as i've shown you time and time again Paul preached this.....2 cori. 7:10 "Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 1 peter 3:21...."baptism doth now save us." titus 3:5 that we are saved by the "washing of regeneration and renewing of the HOly Ghost.


 
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ViaCrucis

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How does one "get saved"?

God sent His only-begotten Son.
Who died and rose from the dead.
God in His kindness applies the work of His Son to us by the power of the Holy Spirit creating faith in us. God does this using the means He said He would use--which is why Christ commissioned His Church to preach the Gospel, making disciples, baptizing them.

It is by grace alone, through faith, on Christ's account alone.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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