How do you get saved?

[expos4ever]

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

Paul (or whoever wrote Ephesians) is not denying that good works are needed for salvation - Romans 2:6-7 shows they are - he is denying that salvation is limited to Jews. The works here are, in context, the works of the Law of Moses, which only Jews can perform.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul is saying clearly that our works don't save us...we are saved only through the finished work of Christ on the Cross...1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 2:6-7 says to me only that faith is an attitude...not that we are in any way saved by our works.

 

[Bible2+]

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #99:

. . . you are confusing obedience with salvation . . .

Note that ultimate salvation requires obedience (Hebrews 5:9, Matthew 7:21, Romans 2:6-8).

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #99:

. . . one can never be perfectly obedient and that is what God demands if you want to be a legalist . . .

There is provision if we mess up and afterward repent (1 John 1:9).

Also, if we love God, we will obey Him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And if we obey Him, He will continue to love us (John 15:10).

It is not difficult for Christians to obey everything that God requires of them (1 John 5:3b, Matthew 11:28-30, John 14:15,21, Matthew 5:48, Revelation 3:2; 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Colossians 1:28, Philippians 3:15; 1 Corinthians 2:6; 2 Corinthians 13:11).

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #99:

. . . one can never be perfectly obedient and that is what God demands if you want to be a legalist . . .

Regarding legalism, grace sets Christians free from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 6:14b, John 1:17, Romans 7:6), but not from Jesus Christ's New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 15:10; 1 Corinthians 9:21, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Matthew 26:28), the commandments of which (John 14:15) are those He gave, for example, in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29), and in the epistles of the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 14:37). For while Christians are initially saved by grace, by faith only (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:1-5), and do not have to obey the letter of the commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law to obtain ultimate salvation (Galatians 2:16, Romans 7:6), they do have to obey Jesus' New Covenant commandments to obtain ultimate salvation (Hebrews 5:9, Matthew 7:21, Romans 2:6-8).

It is by Christians obeying Jesus Christ's New Covenant commandments, whether obeying them currently (1 John 3:24), or during the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 12:17b), that Christians can be sure that they are truly loving Jesus (John 14:21-24; 1 John 5:3), and remaining in His love (John 15:10, John 14:21b,23b, Jude 1:21). Christians must fear ultimately losing their salvation, ultimately being cut off the same as non-Christians, if they do not continue in His goodness (Romans 11:20-22, Luke 12:45-46).

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #99:

. . . obedience will follow your faith in Christ . . .

Not necessarily, because of free will.

That is, while God makes it possible for Christians to do the right thing (Philippians 2:13, John 15:4-5), He does not take away their free will, turning them into robots, or into macabre flesh puppets, mere marionettes whom He forces to dance across the stage as He pulls on their strings. Instead, He leaves them as His real children with free will. And so they have to choose each and every day to deny themselves, to take up their crosses, and to follow Jesus Christ, to the end (Luke 9:23, Matthew 24:13). And there is no assurance that they will choose to do that (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46, Luke 8:13).

 

[Bible2+]

justbyfaith said in post #100:

The health of the plant is dependent on the root not the fruit.

But ultimate salvation requires that we bear fruit.

For John 15:2a refers to Christians, who are branches in the vine of Jesus Christ, wrongly employing their free will in such a way that they fail to produce good fruit, so that ultimately they are taken away from Jesus (John 15:2a), cut off from Him for their unrepentant laziness, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30).

Christians can also be ultimately cut off from Jesus Christ, cast away, and burned; they can ultimately lose their salvation, for not continuing to abide in Jesus (John 15:6), in the sense of committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 2:12b), or unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

justbyfaith said in post #100:

Now the root has to do with the message of the gospel, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. The root has to do with our faith in these facts; and how we are forgiven of every sin through these facts and our faith in them.

Regarding "we are forgiven of every sin through these facts and our faith in them", note that we will not be forgiven for future sins unless we repent from them.

For Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that Christians, who have been sanctified by Jesus Christ's sacrificial blood (Hebrews 10:29), which sanctification requires faith (Acts 26:18b, cf. Romans 3:25-26), can, after they get saved, wrongly employ their free will to commit sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26). By doing this, these Christians are unwittingly trampling on Jesus and His sacrificial blood, and doing despite unto the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29), turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4), so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20-22). Even though Jesus' sacrificial blood is sufficient to forgive all sins (1 John 2:2), it actually forgives only the sins of Christians which are past (Romans 3:25-26), as in sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9,7). Jesus' sacrificial blood does not remit unrepentant sins (Hebrews 10:26-29). So a Christian can ultimately lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his free will to commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

Some Christians say that Hebrews 10:26-29 is not for Christians. But the immediate context of Hebrews 10:26-29 is Hebrews 10:25, which is addressing "we" Christians. Hebrews 10:25-29 is the same idea as Hebrews 3:13: Christians need to gather together and exhort each other so that no Christian will fall into any unrepentant sin. For any unrepentant sin will ultimately result in the loss of salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13; 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

One way that a Christian could come to desire to commit a sin without repentance would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term) that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he becomes so infatuated with his sin that he can no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible (such as the doctrine of Hebrews 10:26-29), but instead latches onto a mistaken, man-made teaching which contradicts the Bible (2 Timothy 4:3-4), such as the mistaken teaching which assures Christians that there is no way that they can ever lose their salvation, even if they commit a sin without repentance.

justbyfaith said in post #100:

The works that we do must be based solely and completely on our love for Christ which comes as our thankfulness overflows over what He did for us so freely.

The works that we do must be based both on our love for Christ/God and on our fear of Him.

For Christians are commanded to fear God (1 Peter 2:17, Luke 12:5, Hebrews 12:28-29; 2 Corinthians 7:1, Ephesians 5:21, Acts 9:31). They must remain in fear of being cut off the same as non-Christians if they do not continue in God's goodness (Romans 11:20-22, Luke 12:45-46). They must work out their own ultimate salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12b; 1 Peter 1:17, Romans 2:6-8), knowing the terror of the future judgment of Christians by Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10-11), at His Second Coming, when some Christians will end up losing their salvation because of unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29), or unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a), or apostasy (Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 6:4-8).

*******

justbyfaith said in post #103:

Romans 2:6-7 says to me only that faith is an attitude...not that we are in any way saved by our works.

Romans 2:6-8 means that the attitude of faith must also have works in order for people to be ultimately saved:

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Also, initial salvation by grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:1-5) does not automatically produce good works. That is why Christians must be careful to maintain good works (Titus 3:8), and why it is possible for Christians to wrongly employ their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

 

[DM25]

The gospel is not hard to understand. It is sad people are adding onto it through works-based salvation and legalism which is wrong and not what Christ wants. we are saved through grace by faith alone. Works come after you are saved by an overflow of love you have for Christ and repentance begins automatically the moment you confess Jesus as your Lord (the holy spirit comes in you and convicts you of your sin). Good works and sinning less is simply evidence of being saved and doesn't come from our own effort but it comes from Christ. We are saved by believing in Jesus Christ with all our heart, plain and simple. That is what saves you (becoming born-again in Christ) and that alone and that is a beautiful thing. We are not saved by our works so no one can boast.

 

[DM25]

But ultimate salvation requires that we bear fruit.

Also, initial salvation by grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:1-5) does not automatically produce good works. That is why Christians must be careful to maintain good works (Titus 3:8), and why it is possible for Christians to wrongly employ their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

Incorrect. You cannot lose salvation once you are born again. Once saved, always saved. We will all stumble occasionally but we will remain changed forever. Now if there is someone who permanently leaves the faith, they are what is known as a false-convert and one who was never truly born again to begin with. "they were never of us". We are saved by GRACE through FAITH, plain and simple. Please understand this and stop preaching false works-based doctrine.

 

[Bible2+]

DM25 said in post #106:

we are saved through grace by faith alone.

Initially (Ephesians 2:8-9), but not ultimately (James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Romans 2:6-8).

DM25 said in post #106:

Works come after you are saved . . .

Not necessarily, because of free will (Matthew 25:26,30, Titus 3:8, John 15:2a).

DM25 said in post #106:

. . . repentance begins automatically the moment you confess Jesus as your Lord (the holy spirit comes in you and convicts you of your sin).

The ability of Christians (although not their choosing) to repent from and confess to God every sin that they commit is assured. For if they do commit a sin, even if they are unaware of it, Jesus Christ will send them warning and chastening to make sure that they know that they have sinned and need to repent (Revelation 3:19, Hebrews 12:6-7, cf. Jeremiah 31:18-19). And He will give them time to repent (Revelation 2:21a). But if they wrongly employ their free will to waste the time that they are given, and ignore the warning and chastening, and refuse to repent (Revelation 2:21-23, cf. Deuteronomy 21:18-21), until death (1 John 5:16b) or Jesus' future, Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46), then they will ultimately lose their salvation due to unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).

If Christians become unsure whether or not they have ignored Jesus Christ's warning and refused to repent from a sin, then they need to pray and ask Him to reveal to them if there is any unrepentant sin in their heart (Psalms 139:23-24). And they need to be reading the Bible, every word of it (Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16), over and over again. For it will expose to them any unrepentant sin which still exists in their heart (Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16), so that they can then repent from it and confess it to God, and be forgiven and perfect before God (2 Timothy 3:17; 1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).

DM25 said in post #106:

Good works and sinning less is simply evidence of being saved and doesn't come from our own effort but it comes from Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:9, 1 Corinthians 3:9, Colossians 1:29, Philippians 2:12b, Titus 3:8, and Romans 2:6-8 show that Christians themselves must actually labor, together with God. Ultimate salvation is synergistic, because Christians can end up losing their salvation if they wrongly employ their free will to stop their laboring, to become utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

DM25 said in post #106:

We are not saved by our works so no one can boast.

It is impossible for people to believe, or to continue to believe, all of the right things, apart from God's miraculous gift of Christian faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2), and some measure of His Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Also, it is impossible for people to perform, or to continue to perform, all of the right actions as Christians, apart from God making it possible for Christians to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it is impossible for people to repent, if a sin is committed, apart from God making it possible to repent (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if Christians continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus Christ judges the Church at His future, Second Coming, He will give obedient Christians some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify Christians (Romans 8:30).

*******

DM25 said in post #107:

Now if there is someone who permanently leaves the faith, they are what is known as a false-convert and one who was never truly born again to begin with.

Calvinism's mistaken doctrine of once-saved-always-saved through assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that Christians are robots. For if Christians cannot choose to do evil to the point where they can ultimately lose their salvation, then they no longer have free will. Also, the mistaken doctrine of assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that a Christian can have no present assurance that he is truly saved. For if a Christian who does not persevere to the end was never truly saved, then no Christian can presently have the assurance that he is truly saved. For no Christian can know if he will persevere to the end. Down the road, he could fail to persevere, and so end up showing that he was all along only a fake Christian, a self-deceived hypocrite.

But under true, Biblical doctrine, every believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31) can know that he is presently saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), if, after he became a Christian, he repented from his sins (1 John 3:6), and confessed them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can be sure that as a saved person, he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means to obey Him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a Christian fails during his lifetime, sometime subsequent to his initial repentance, even if he fails and commits sin seventy-times-seven times in a single day (Matthew 18:21-22, Luke 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every act of sin, and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will lose his salvation ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

DM25 said in post #107:

"they were never of us".

1 John 2:19 does not require that apostate Christians were never real Christians, but can mean that apostate Christians were never of the overcomers to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). Real Christians, who have their names written in the Book of Life, can have their names blotted out if they fail to overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). People can really believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel only for awhile, before at some point wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:3), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

1 John 2:18-19 can refer to Christians who eventually became Gnostic Christians (cf. 2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3), and so left the Church because of its continued, and correct, insistence that Christ is in the flesh (Luke 24:39).

DM25 said in post #107:

We are saved by GRACE through FAITH, plain and simple.

Not ultimately (James 2:24).

DM25 said in post #107:

Please understand this and stop preaching false works-based doctrine.

What is being preached is the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God, which, sadly, many Christians have become unable to endure (cf. 2 Timothy 4:2-4): that Biblical Christianity is a works-righteousness religion. For to continue to be seen as righteous by God, Christians must continue to do righteous deeds (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26, James 1:27). And they must continue to repent from any sin that they commit (James 1:27b; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Hebrews 10:26-29).

 

[expos4ever]

Paul is saying clearly that our works don't save us...we are saved only through the finished work of Christ on the Cross...1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Why, then, does Paul write in Romans 2,6-7 that eternal life is ganted based on what we have done, and to those who persist in doing good?

 

[expos4ever]

Romans 2:6-7 says to me only that faith is an attitude...not that we are in any way saved by our works.

Then you are clearly misreading it. It very clearly says eternal life is based on what we do, and is awarded to those who persist in doing good.

 

[justbyfaith]

Then you are clearly misreading it. It very clearly says eternal life is based on what we do, and is awarded to those who persist in doing good.

If eternal life is based on what we do, then Ephesians 2:8-9 is a lie; and your next step is to take some scissors and cut it out of your Bible (but before you do, be careful to understand Revelation 22:19).

But faith is an attitude in Romans 2:6-7. It is an attitude where we desire to do what is right and not what is evil. It is speaking of a transformed, regenerated, and renewed heart (Titus 3:4-7). Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he has saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. The attitude is defined in the verses. It is not saying that we are saved by works, by what we do (see Ephesians 2:9); but that the attitude of faith is such that we will seek after glory, honour, and immortality; we will also continue in His goodness if we have a living and saving faith.

For faith changes the attitude of the heart. It is not that our free will is taken away, but that our desire is changed: so that we want to endure to the end; and we are also able to do so because of the power of the indwelling Holy Ghost.

 

[justbyfaith]

What is being preached is the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God, which, sadly, many Christians have become unable to endure (cf. 2 Timothy 4:2-4): that Biblical Christianity is a works-righteousness religion.

Absolutely false. Titus 3:4-7 shows clearly that our salvation is not by works of righteousness which we have done; but through his mercy.

Grace and works are mutually exclusive when it comes to what saves us (makes us the elect)...Romans 11:5-6.

Salvation is not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9). It does not say in this passage that it is referring "only to initial salvation". That is something that you have added.

The regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost will create in us an attitude wherein we will desire to do good works. Our hearts are changed; and good works are the evidence of such a transformation of the heart.

But the root is faith in Jesus Christ. Works don't save us in the slightest (Ephesians 2:9). Rather, they show forth as the evidence that we are saved, that we have been transformed from the inside out.

A person can have all kinds of good works and still be a worker of iniquity, unsaved (Matthew 7:22-23).

Focus on having your roots planted firmly in the ground, and you will bear fruit. Focus on bearing fruit, and your roots very likely won't be planted in the ground; and you will not even be able to bear the right kind of fruit. Instead of drawing up nourishment from the vine, you would be focused on striving to produce fruit. But fruit is not produced that way; it is only produced when the branch receives the proper nourishment. The nourishment flows into the branch and then to the tip of the branch where it begins to form the fruit out of what is being sent to the tip of the branch.

 

[Tomb523]

Some people say it is all God's work and YOU don't do a thing. Some say you have to believe and repent and God will save you. Some say that you have to work out your own salvation. A few say everybody is saved. So how do you get saved and is it all God's work, some your own work, or something else?

It is both and instant and ongoing process. Romans 10:8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

Salvation means you are justified by Jesus and baptized with the Holy Spirit. Once the Holy Spirit dwells within you is the process of Sanctification begins.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ESV

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Philippians 1:6 ESV
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

While our salvation and justification does not come about by our efforts to do good works, once we are saved and through the influence of the Holy Spirit we start being motivated to do good works, although we will most likely not achieve perfection until judgement day. What we do start to see are the fruits of the spirit as described in Gal 5:22-25

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

Once saved, our motivation changes. A personal example for me was I had developed a routine of walking at lunch. Where I walked was a downtown area with controlled crossing, but light traffic. It was my habit to cross, even against the sign when no traffic was present, but one day shortly after my saving it occurred to me that I shouldn't do that and so I started waiting for the light to cross (that very evening, I also stopped going 5 mph over the speed limit). Within two weeks I read Roman's 13 which essentially talks about our responsibility to submit to local authority (obey the local laws) and that governments are used to God's purpose.

Yes, I admit, it seems pretty superficial, but what suddenly changed a behavior I'd done most of my life? It drives my colleagues crazy, but I can't bring myself to disobey anymore.

As I said, it is a process. That was low hanging fruit for the spirit where other things are still a work in progress. I'll still think of or have to resist telling an off color joke every now and then which brings to the point that sanctification requires an effort on our part, but motivated by the Holy Spirit. So when I do something wrong, I feel the immediate twinge of regret and must confess them as sin to receive forgiveness. Over time, I become less and less inclined to repeat.

So once we are saved, we are motivated by the Holy Spirit, but sanctification still requires an effort on our part. It takes some time to wrap one's head around this concept.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Absolutely false. Titus 3:4-7 shows clearly that our salvation is not by works of righteousness which we have done; but through his mercy.

Grace and works are mutually exclusive when it comes to what saves us (makes us the elect)...Romans 11:5-6.

Salvation is not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9). It does not say in this passage that it is referring "only to initial salvation". That is something that you have added.

The regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost will create in us an attitude wherein we will desire to do good works. Our hearts are changed; and good works are the evidence of such a transformation of the heart.

But the root is faith in Jesus Christ. Works don't save us in the slightest (Ephesians 2:9). Rather, they show forth as the evidence that we are saved, that we have been transformed from the inside out.

A person can have all kinds of good works and still be a worker of iniquity, unsaved (Matthew 7:22-23).

Focus on having your roots planted firmly in the ground, and you will bear fruit. Focus on bearing fruit, and your roots very likely won't be planted in the ground; and you will not even be able to bear the right kind of fruit. Instead of drawing up nourishment from the vine, you would be focused on striving to produce fruit. But fruit is not produced that way; it is only produced when the branch receives the proper nourishment. The nourishment flows into the branch and then to the tip of the branch where it begins to form the fruit out of what is being sent to the tip of the branch.

Excellent explanation, brother. It always amazes me how many folks get the cause/effect inverted in this regard.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sanctification is completely a work of the Holy Spirit. It happens as we absorb the word of God and he transforms us by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:1-2, Psalms 119:11). re #113.

 

[expos4ever]

If eternal life is based on what we do, then Ephesians 2:8-9 is a lie.

In line with the view of at least some scholars, I am confident that the works in 2:9 are not good works in general, they are the works of the Law of Moses.

In short, Ephesians 2:8-9 denies that salvation is limited to Jews.

Your take on Romans 2:6-7 is unworkable - the text clearly states that eternal life is awarded according to what we have done.

 

[Tomb523]

Sanctification is completely a work of the Holy Spirit. It happens as we absorb the word of God and he transforms us by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:1-2, Psalms 119:11). re #113.

I partially disagree. I agree our motivation to not sin (become sanctified) is given us by the Holy Spirit. The desire to renew our minds is the result, but we have a little effort on our part. It's not magical nor is it instantaneous. It is a process by which we are conscious of what decisions we are going to make and temptation continues to pound on us each and every day.

2Timothy 2:
22 Run from temptations that capture young people. Always do the right thing. Be faithful, loving, and easy to get along with. Worship with people whose hearts are pure. 23 Stay away from stupid and senseless arguments. These only lead to trouble, 24 and God’s servants must not be troublemakers. They must be kind to everyone, and they must be good teachers and very patient.

When Joseph was approached by the Pharaohs' wife to lay with her, he fled from her. It took action on his part of avoid the temptation she was offering.

We are also told that we must be in the world, but we should not be of the world. That implies behavior on a conscious level not an unconscious level.

Ephesians 4:22-24 instructs us to put off the old self and put on the new. Ephesians 6 tells us to put on the full armor of God and stand fast against the devil. Colossians 3:5 commands us to put to death what is earthly in us. 1 Timothy 6:12 urges us to fight the good fight. Luke 13:24 exhorts us to strive to enter the narrow gate.

There is effort necessary on the part of the Christian. To exhort otherwise will and has misled many who came to believe they didn't have to do anything to change and then found change wasn't happening. These were the seeds that fell on shallow ground!

 

[expos4ever]

One of the biggest systematic errors in exegesis is to fail to understand that when Paul writes about “works”, he is generally, although not always, talking about the practices of the Law of Moses.

So when, in Ephesians, we read that we are not saved by works, this is Paul’s way of saying salvation is not limited to Jews; he makes the same argument at the end of Romans 3.

 

[justbyfaith]

If Paul were referring to the works of the law in Ephesians 2:8-9, he would have said so, as was in the case of Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:20.

You must also consider that in Titus 3:4-7 Paul is speaking of "works of righteousness which we have done" that we are not saved by them. Is this only referring to the works of the law, or is it referring to real works of righteousness of all kinds, across the board? Most assuredly it is referring to works of righteousness across the board, that we are not saved by them.

Then you must also consider that grace and works are mutually exclusive as concerning what saves us, in Romans 11:5-6.

And taking a look at Romans 2:6-11:

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile. For there is no respect of persons with God.

This scripture is very much like that of John 5:29, And shall come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Now of course in this latter passage the question to be asked is, have you ever done evil? The obvious answer based on scripture is yes; we have all done evil (Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23, etc.). Therefore I conclude that we will all be raised unto the resurrection of damnation.

The only way anyone can be raised to the resurrection of life is if they have done good. Has anyone done good? Romans 3:12 would tell us that no one has.

Let that sink into your heart.

If anyone places their trust in their own living of a good life to get them the resurrection of life, they will find that they have done evil and they have not done good; and are therefore worthy of the resurrection of damnnation.

If you want the good news, let me know.

 

[justbyfaith]

I partially disagree. I agree our motivation to not sin (become sanctified) is given us by the Holy Spirit. The desire to renew our minds is the result, but we have a little effort on our part. It's not magical nor is it instantaneous. It is a process by which we are conscious of what decisions we are going to make and temptation continues to pound on us each and every day.

2Timothy 2:
22 Run from temptations that capture young people. Always do the right thing. Be faithful, loving, and easy to get along with. Worship with people whose hearts are pure. 23 Stay away from stupid and senseless arguments. These only lead to trouble, 24 and God’s servants must not be troublemakers. They must be kind to everyone, and they must be good teachers and very patient.

When Joseph was approached by the Pharaohs' wife to lay with her, he fled from her. It took action on his part of avoid the temptation she was offering.

We are also told that we must be in the world, but we should not be of the world. That implies behavior on a conscious level not an unconscious level.

Ephesians 4:22-24 instructs us to put off the old self and put on the new. Ephesians 6 tells us to put on the full armor of God and stand fast against the devil. Colossians 3:5 commands us to put to death what is earthly in us. 1 Timothy 6:12 urges us to fight the good fight. Luke 13:24 exhorts us to strive to enter the narrow gate.

There is effort necessary on the part of the Christian. To exhort otherwise will and has misled many who came to believe they didn't have to do anything to change and then found change wasn't happening. These were the seeds that fell on shallow ground!

It is God who worketh within us both to will and to do according to His good pleasure. We become fortified against sin as we hide the word of the Lord in our hearts. He transforms us by the renewing of our minds. This is how sanctification happens. And of course, when our minds are renewed, we will begin to have an inclination toward doing righteousness and eschewing evil. There is no doubt about that.

The thing I would warn against would be to be fake as a Christian. If we are "trying" to be good, then we will clean the outside of the cup and dish, but what about the inside? It will remain unchanged because we are only changing the outside through conscious effort. When the Holy Spirit does the sanctifying, he begins by convicting our souls of whatever sin we have committed. Then we pray and confess that sin. And finally, He creates an unconscious holiness in us concerning that sin as a sovereign work of the Holy Spirit, as He changes us from the inside out. The confessing of that sin does make us conscious of the fact that it is sin; but until we obtain an unconscious holiness concerning that sin as a work of the Holy Spirit within our lives, the change is merely outward and Jesus would rebuke us as He did the scribes and Pharisees, that we ought to clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside will also be clean.