How do you : "Fall from Grace"

[FredVB]

The element that many disregard which then could be missing such that different conclusions are reached from the relevant scripture passages is repentance. One must come to Christ in faith that will have Christ as Lord for them, and they have salvation with this, but that happens only with repentance, one is made aware already that having sins in life separates us from God. One who never changes when confessing they came to Christ do not have that. Those that so learn come to be obedient to God, sooner or later, and change in their life is seen sooner. So there is obedience to commandments that will be seen, while the obedience is not saving them.

 

[Brightfame52]

Falling from grace merely means one changes their mind about being saved by grace, and allows an element of works to prevail as to why they were saved !

 

[FredVB]

Falling from grace merely means one changes their mind about being saved by grace, and allows an element of works to prevail as to why they were saved !

Repentance is changing one's mind, there is a sinful life and one is to change to having Christ in one's life. God's grace is needed for that, our works could never accomplish it. If one thinks one's work is involved in being saved, that is a false belief, alien to being in Christ. One walking away from Christ, for discouragement, sin, or anything, at any time, never had that faith that salvation is all in Christ and not our work, with our repentance responding to God's Spirit.

 

[Brightfame52]

Repentance is changing one's mind, there is a sinful life and one is to change to having Christ in one's life. God's grace is needed for that, our works could never accomplish it. If one thinks one's work is involved in being saved, that is a false belief, alien to being in Christ. One walking away from Christ, for discouragement, sin, or anything, at any time, never had that faith that salvation is all in Christ and not our work, with our repentance responding to God's Spirit.

I stand to what I said about falling from grace.

 

[FredVB]

I stand to what I said about falling from grace.

I am not trying to single you out for arguing with you, and the statement indicating we are not saved by our own works is fine. It is pretty sure we would not change either of our minds from discussion here. But I still stand by what I said as well. We who believe may know we have eternal life now, as 1 John 5:13 shows, and we know we have security, also shown in more passages. Those falling from God's grace and turning away from Christianity may have been among us but they were never of us.

 

[Brightfame52]

fredvb

Those falling from God's grace and turning away from Christianity may have been among usus but they were never of us.

Agreed that's what Im saying. They just had a profession of having been saved by grace, but their subsequent actions evidenced differently.

 

[FredVB]

God is gracious and God has grace for all, who are creatures of God's creation. Those fallen and with a sin nature God does not will to perish, but would have them come to repentance to be saved, if they would do that. There are mostly those so self willed that they will not do that in response when God's grace is shown to them.

 

[Brightfame52]

God is gracious and God has grace for all, who are creatures of God's creation. Those fallen and with a sin nature God does not will to perish, but would have them come to repentance to be saved, if they would do that. There are mostly those so self willed that they will not do that in response when God's grace is shown to them.

Sounds like works !

 

[FredVB]

Sounds like works !

Really? What part of 2 Peter 3:9 is like works?

 

[FredVB]

I see some who equate repentance, and faith, to works, that would work with their Calvinist position. In Bible passages the mention of works is about doing things for going to heaven, or for being saved, which the Bible shows will not save us. Faith is contrasted with works. Faith is necessary in salvation, and it must be with repentance, so that it is not easy believism. Salvation really is from God's grace, with God's power, that is accomplished with Christ who came for us, nothing we do accomplishes the way we would go to heaven. It yet involves our response and Bible passages do not leave us to be passive receivers. Those who do not have that do not change in any spiritual way, and are not really of us while they are among us, and they show that when they fall away, walking away from the faith and from Jesus Christ.

 

[FredVB]

IN the mind of someone who is born again, who has left their original faith and are = fallen from it....

To "fall from Grace",..... is to stop wholly trusting in Christ, the way you completely did, when you first were born again.
See, everyone who is born again, initially, understands..."im a sinner, i have no hope, im hell bound, im no good, there is nothing i can do of myself to end up in Heaven, So, i rely fully, totally, ultimately, completely,, on Jesus to SAVE ME = to deal with all my sin and get me into heaven.
But then, they get flipped by a deceiver, by the Devil.
Paul teaches this as "Who has bewitched you"... in Galatians.
The born again get subverted away from their initial ultimate trust in Christ, and become turned and ruined, faith wise.
Still born again, but faith corrupted...or "in the flesh", as Paul teaches.
And this is simply to CONTINUALLY ATTEMPT to try to do for themselves, what only Jesus's Blood has = ALREADY accomplished for them.

Missing in this is the repentance. There is necessary response to God's grace in salvation, with knowing life of sin separates any from God. One learns of God's love, and loves God in response.

 

[FredVB]

There is necessary response to God's grace in salvation, with knowing life of sin separates any from God. One learns of God's love, and loves God in response.

There is changed life in any case for a believer, who has come to Christ and is in Christ. Such do not stay with the same sins without change. There is a start to the growth spiritually, with more of love, and other spiritual fruit, starting to show, though these should grow much more than they are showing in most believers now so far. Love of God is necessarily inclusive of others of God's creation, they are all God's creatures.

 

[FredVB]

Those who repent coming to God through Christ, and being in Christ then, are those in whose lives God is working, and they don't then choose to act in ways that would mean their salvation is forever lost. That could not be what the eternal life they have would mean, and God's grace is greater, that not anything would ever snatch any of them away from, out of God's hands.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Those who repent coming to God through Christ, and being in Christ then, are those in whose lives God is working, and they don't then choose to act in ways that would mean their salvation is forever lost. That could not be what the eternal life they have would mean, and God's grace is greater, that not anything would ever snatch any of them away from, out of God's hands.

How do you explain John 15:6?

 

[5thKingdom]

The element that many disregard which then could be missing such that different conclusions are reached from the relevant scripture passages is repentance. One must come to Christ in faith that will have Christ as Lord for them, and they have salvation with this, but that happens only with repentance, one is made aware already that having sins in life separates us from God. One who never changes when confessing they came to Christ do not have that. Those that so learn come to be obedient to God, sooner or later, and change in their life is seen sooner. So there is obedience to commandments that will be seen, while the obedience is not saving them.

The Bible is very clear [Rom 3 and John 6] that NO MAN
will repent until AFTER they are regenerated. Repentance
is the RESULT (and not the cause) of salvation, otherwise
we are saved by OUR WORK of repentance.

And anyone thinking they are saved by their works
(repentance or saying a sinners prayer or water baptism
or making an altar call or any other ACTION they do)
... they are only fooling themselves because they are
contradicting Scripture.

The Bible teaches a monergistic salvation while (it seems)
you are promoting a synergistic salvation.

.

 

[Christian7777777]

The Bible is very clear [Rom 3 and John 6] that NO MAN
will repent until AFTER they are regenerated. Repentance
is the RESULT (and not the cause) of salvation, otherwise
we are saved by OUR WORK of repentance.

And anyone thinking they are saved by their works
(repentance or saying a sinners prayer or water baptism
or making an altar call or any other ACTION they do)
... they are only fooling themselves because they are
contradicting Scripture.

The Bible teaches a monergistic salvation while (it seems)
you are promoting a synergistic salvation.

.

It is Gods giving the word of repentance, the calling to the faith, the light shining in darkness, that gives the way to repent, the meaning of it, the sense of it.

Just like a child has his mind, but needs it directed, to either go towards a right way, or a wrong way, otherwise what is the purpose of bringing up children in the love and admonishment of the Lord ?

It is simplicity in Christ, but it seems it can never be simple enough.


James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.


Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

 

[FredVB]

The Bible is very clear [Rom 3 and John 6] that NO MAN
will repent until AFTER they are regenerated. Repentance
is the RESULT (and not the cause) of salvation, otherwise
we are saved by OUR WORK of repentance.

And anyone thinking they are saved by their works
(repentance or saying a sinners prayer or water baptism
or making an altar call or any other ACTION they do)
... they are only fooling themselves because they are
contradicting Scripture.

The Bible teaches a monergistic salvation while (it seems)
you are promoting a synergistic salvation.

There is no salvation to any with mere faith and no repentance at all. You speak of a false salvation to disagree.

 

[FredVB]

God is love and God wants to forgive, and initiates what is needed for God's creatures to be in relationship with God, while some are staying stuck in their ways and will not respond to God anyway. The atonement for redemption is necessary and it was always in God's plan, as God's will is not that any perish but that all come to repentance in which they may be brought to redemption in Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

God is love and God wants to forgive, and initiates what is needed for God's creatures to be in relationship with God, while some are staying stuck in their ways and will not respond to God anyway. The atonement for redemption is necessary and it was always in God's plan, as God's will is not that any perish but that all come to repentance in which they may be brought to redemption in Christ.

All for whom Christ died, have been forgiven of their sins for Christs sake Eph 4:32 writing to Gods chosen:

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[FredVB]

"God is love and God wants to forgive, and initiates what is needed for God's creatures to be in relationship with God, while some are staying stuck in their ways and will not respond to God anyway. The atonement for redemption is necessary and it was always in God's plan, as God's will is not that any perish but that all come to repentance in which they may be brought to redemption in Christ."

All for whom Christ died, have been forgiven of their sins for Christs sake Eph 4:32 writing to Gods chosen:

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

I am generally paraphrasing in my words certain passages in scriptures. Your argument here would not be with me. I leave you 2 Peter 3:9 to dispute with.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.