How do we know that the earth is a rotating globe ?

[Apple Sky]

What about them? I don't see how they would come into the question. But then, I really have no idea about what Bill Gates is actually proposing to do, or why.

Yeah Billy Boy has proposed to block out the sun but fortunately for us the UN has voted against it.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/02/29/sun-blocking-technologies-a-no-go-for-now-after-un-countries-voice-serious-concerns

Analysis: Plans to cool the Earth by blocking sunlight are gaining momentum but critical voices risk

Writing in The Conversation, Chloe Colomer (UCL STEaPP) argues that the academic polarisation surrounding solar geoengineering research is deeply unproductive and that upcoming research projects must factor in the concerns of opponents as well as supporters.

www.ucl.ac.uk

 

[RamiC]

YECs, much like flat-earth Christians, do not understand the amount of damage that they're doing to the church. By trying to read these passages literally, as though there is or was an actual vault or dome or vaulted dome in the sky, that restrains water above.

Perhaps science could promote science, instead of the church doing it? Then the church can get on with promoting faith, spreading awareness about why some of us humans believe in things which science cannot comprehend, like 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1-1 NIV and 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3-16 NIV

Can you explain a bit more, with evidence of some kind, how the church is harmed by it's members believing the Bible? Or how the church benefits from it's members promoting the idea that people should not believe the Bible? By evidence, I would accept any viable research showing that churches tend to grow in membership when they deny Genesis, or a citation of any part of the Bible that supports the notion that the health of a church community, or their spiritual health, depends on doubting Genesis 1.

As though if the psalmist says that there is water above the heavens, that's pictorial and poetic. But if Genesis says it, then for whatever reason it's not.

Or it would be additionally wrong to read about Jacob going down to Sheol in Genesis, or the floodgates opening and closing during Noah's flood, etc., and to view them as literal history.

Psalms, book of the Old Testament composed of sacred songs, or of sacred poems meant to be sung.- this is a link, just to show everyone that we know the Psalms are deliberate, creative writing. As far as I am aware we have no such record to show the same applies to Genesis.

 

[David Lamb]

You can't do else you wouldn't believe the earth is a ball.

There are plenty of people who like me fully believe God's word, yet believe that the earth is a sphere. Nowhere does the bible tell us the shape of the earth - I seem to remember you even writing that in a post a few months ago. It seems wrong to suggest that somebody doesn't believe the bible just because they have a different view of the shape of the earth than you do.

 

[Apple Sky]

Nowhere does the bible tell us the shape of the earth

Try Isaiah 40:22 & Job 38:14.

 

[David Lamb]

Try Isaiah 40:22 & Job 38:14.

Have you really forgotten the number of times you have suggested Isaiah 40:22, and I have replied that that verse says nothing about the shape of the earth? The verse says:

“It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants [are] like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.” (Isa 40:22 NKJV)

So first, the verse doesn't say "The earth is a circle," but that the earth has a circle, Just as when people say, "Cardiff is the capital city of Wales," they don't mean that Wales is a capital city, but that it has one, Cardiff.

Second, the word translated "circle" can equally mean "circuit" or "compass."

Third, even if we take "circle" as the meaning, a sphere has circles, such as the equator.

Moving on to Job 38:14, it says:

“It takes on form like clay under a seal, And stands out like a garment.” (Job 38:14 NKJV)

No mention of the shape of the earth. And notice it says, "like clay under a seal." In a similar way to a piece of clay taking the form of the seal pressed into it, the earth takes on the form that God imposes on it. It cannot mean that the earth is flat, because the second half of the verse tells us that the earth stands out like a garment.

 

[Job 33:6]

Perhaps science could promote science, instead of the church doing it? Then the church can get on with promoting faith, spreading awareness about why some of us humans believe in things which science cannot comprehend, like 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1-1 NIV and 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3-16 NIV

Can you explain a bit more, with evidence of some kind, how the church is harmed by it's members believing the Bible? Or how the church benefits from it's members promoting the idea that people should not believe the Bible? By evidence, I would accept any viable research showing that churches tend to grow in membership when they deny Genesis, or a citation of any part of the Bible that supports the notion that the health of a church community, or their spiritual health, depends on doubting Genesis 1.




Psalms, book of the Old Testament composed of sacred songs, or of sacred poems meant to be sung.- this is a link, just to show everyone that we know the Psalms are deliberate, creative writing. As far as I am aware we have no such record to show the same applies to Genesis.

This is mere rhetoric, Genesis describes ancient Israelite cosmology:

 

[RamiC]

This is mere rhetoric, Genesis describes ancient Israelite cosmology:

So you can repeat yourself, but can you support your accusation that Christians who believe Genesis are harming the church?

 

[Job 33:6]

Have you really forgotten the number of times you have suggested Isaiah 40:22, and I have replied that that verse says nothing about the shape of the earth? The verse says:

“It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants [are] like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.” (Isa 40:22 NKJV)

So first, the verse doesn't say "The earth is a circle," but that the earth has a circle, Just as when people say, "Cardiff is the capital city of Wales," they don't mean that Wales is a capital city, but that it has one, Cardiff.

Second, the word translated "circle" can equally mean "circuit" or "compass."

Third, even if we take "circle" as the meaning, a sphere has circles, such as the equator.

Moving on to Job 38:14, it says:

“It takes on form like clay under a seal, And stands out like a garment.” (Job 38:14 NKJV)

No mention of the shape of the earth. And notice it says, "like clay under a seal." In a similar way to a piece of clay taking the form of the seal pressed into it, the earth takes on the form that God imposes on it. It cannot mean that the earth is flat, because the second half of the verse tells us that the earth stands out like a garment.

Job 38:14 NIV
[14] The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.

Clay under a seal is flat. As are garments.

Job 38:13 NIV
[13] that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?

Kind of like taking a garment and shaking dust out of it.

 

[Job 33:6]

So you can repeat yourself, but can you support your accusation that Christians who believe Genesis are harming the church?

It's not merely a matter of believing in Genesis. Rather it's a hermeneutical issue in which droves of Christians leave the church because they aren't aware that Genesis describes ancient Israelite cosmology.

And maybe you haven't noticed this happening, but in fact there are help groups online for Christians suffering from just this issue. For example, Answers to Answers in Genesis. If you aren't aware of this group, I'd encourage you to go there and simply ask how many people in there are recovering former YECs. Thankfully many have stayed with the church, but for many others, they've taken psychological trauma and have stepped away from the church.

 

[Job 33:6]

So how would you explain Billy G's blocking of the sun ?? How could they do this without affecting the moon ?

Do you have a source for your quote of Bill Gates?

 

[David Lamb]

Job 38:14 NIV
[14] The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.

Clay under a seal is flat. As are garments.

Job 38:13 NIV
[13] that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?

Kind of like taking a garment and shaking dust out of it.

But the garments in the verse in Job are said to stand out, though English translations differ on this.

 

[Apple Sky]

Do you have a source for your quote of Bill Gates?

Bill Gates-backed plan to block the sun and reverse global warming

Silicon Valley elites, like Microsoft founder Bill Gates, are throwing their financial weight behind an unproven scheme to fight climate change: global weather modification

www.dailymail.co.uk

Solar Geoengineering: Why Bill Gates Wants It, But These Experts Want To Stop It

The Earth is warming rapidly as a result of human-caused emissions. Some scientists think re-engineering the atmosphere to deflect more of the sun's heat could help. Others are warning that such a move would be both dangerous and unethical.

www.forbes.com

 

[Job 33:6]

But the garments in the verse in Job are said to stand out, though English translations differ on this.

Job 38:13-14 NIV
[13] that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? [14] The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.

We can look at commentaries, but the text is saying that, much like a dirty blanket, you could grab the earth by its edges and shake it, to cleanse the wicked from it. Like taking the edge of a blanket and shaking it out.

Then additionally, the earth takes shape like clay under a seal. Which, cylinder seals are rolled along clay to flatten them like a plate. And it's features, like the markings of a cylinder seal, stand out like the rolls or ripples of a garment.

Nehemiah 5 says something similar:
Nehemiah 5:13 NASB1995
[13] I also shook out the front of my garment and said, “Thus may God shake out every man from his house and from his possessions who does not fulfill this promise; even thus may he be shaken out and emptied.” And all the assembly said, “Amen!” And they praised the Lord. Then the people did according to this promise.

Like a garment, shaken to get the dirt off. Flat like that of clay under a cylinder seal.

It's poetry. But it does express ideas that we would associate with flatness. Like shaking out a piece of clothing that has dirt on it.

 

[Job 33:6]

Bill Gates-backed plan to block the sun and reverse global warming

Silicon Valley elites, like Microsoft founder Bill Gates, are throwing their financial weight behind an unproven scheme to fight climate change: global weather modification

www.dailymail.co.uk

Solar Geoengineering: Why Bill Gates Wants It, But These Experts Want To Stop It

The Earth is warming rapidly as a result of human-caused emissions. Some scientists think re-engineering the atmosphere to deflect more of the sun's heat could help. Others are warning that such a move would be both dangerous and unethical.

www.forbes.com

Looks like they're talking about brightening clouds to reflect sunlight. Or using large balloons. This doesn't relate to earths shape.

 

[RamiC]

I'd encourage you to go there and simply ask how many people in there are recovering former YECs. Thankfully many have stayed with the church, but for many others, they've taken psychological trauma and have stepped away from the church.

I invited you to show either viable research or a Biblical basis to support your accusation. A Facebook group is neither.

 

[Job 33:6]

I invited you to show either viable research or a Biblical basis to support your accusation. A Facebook group is neither.

Well, real people, telling real stories about trauma as a product of bad hermeneutics is what we have. The issues with people leaving the church today are multi faceted. There is no research on it, as far as I'm aware.

You don't have to believe these people, if you don't want to. But I do. I am one. I understand full well the stories of many.

And in terms of a biblical basis, as noted before, the old testament describes ancient Israelite cosmology. And I'd quite frankly just state that YECism really is just a product of a false hermeneutic. And on that basis as well, its problematic and damaging to the church.

It's not the people who are YECs themselves. It's moreso the broader product of misreading Genesis outside of its original context.

 

[Apple Sky]

Looks like they're talking about brightening clouds to reflect sunlight. Or using large balloons. This doesn't relate to earths shape.

But the sun does very much so, it's is impossible to block out the sun however it isn't impossible to deflect the sun hence the Chem-trails they spray on daily basis, look up you can't miss them.

The sun tells us a lot about the shape of the earth & it tells me the earth ain't no ball.

On the day that the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD in the presence of Israel: “O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.” So the sun stood still and the moon stopped until the nation took vengeance upon its enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? “So the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.” There has been no day like it before or since, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man, because the LORD fought for Israel Joshua 10:13

 

[Apple Sky]

It's not the people who are YECs themselves. It's moreso the broader product of misreading Genesis outside of its original context.

I have to ask, who are the YEC's ?

 

[Job 33:6]

I invited you to show either viable research or a Biblical basis to support your accusation. A Facebook group is neither.

Here is an interesting article with data:

Already Gone Online Book

The “Beemer Report” reveals startling facts of a thousand 20–29 year olds who used to attend evangelical churches, but have since left it behind. The results are shocking.

answersingenesis.org

Already gone: while your kids will quit church and what you can do about it.

And you can go to the appendices and see polls about people doubting the Bible because of conflicts between science and scripture.

And, of course AiG would say that the issue is with science.

However, I would say that it's quite the opposite. That it's an issue of the hermeneutics of YECism.

 

[Job 33:6]

But the sun does very much so, it's is impossible to block out the sun however it isn't impossible to deflect the sun hence the Chem-trails they spray on daily basis, look up you can't miss them.

The sun tells us a lot about the shape of the earth & it tells me the earth ain't no ball.

On the day that the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD in the presence of Israel: “O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.” So the sun stood still and the moon stopped until the nation took vengeance upon its enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? “So the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.” There has been no day like it before or since, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man, because the LORD fought for Israel Joshua 10:13

The articles you've shared do not mention blocking out the sun.