How do we hear God's voice?

[swordsman1]

My wife and I spent a fruitless decade in one congregation. So I'll ask the question, "Which church should I go to?"

Where is that answer found for me in scripture? And if I thought I found it, does that mean every other church is bad?

You shouldn't be trusting in your feelings, thinking that is God speaking to you. Feelings are subjective and fickle. And nowhere does scripture command us to do that. You have the scriptures, select a church that preaches them.

I often get a strong feeling that I don't want to go to work. Is that God saying to me, "Quit your job"?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes Luke 12 is a good verse it is similar to this one with a difference

“ Matthew 10 - 19. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”

And as far as prophecy goes your sins and your daughters shall prophesy. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to prophesy and to seek it. Yet we do not have any if these words that many many did written down. They had scripture and still could prophesy one by one that all may learn and all may be comforted

As far as the section that is used by many today who say the gifts have ceased the verse used is this one

1 Corinthians 13 - 8. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”

It simply says they “shall” fail and cease. It does not say they "have failed" or ceased yet. The time went they will be no more is when we see Jesus face to face as Paul mentions here.

Paul also says, when that which is perfect is come. This is not referring to the scriptures. But the word “perfect” in Greek is “teleios” meaning complete as In growth or full of age the perfect man as it is implied in vs's 10,11. This is the same word Paul used in Ephesians 4:13

“ Ephesians 4 - 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:”

So all the gifts in Ephesians 4:11 are still needed those being apostles and prophets, pastors and evangelist and teachers. If we get rid of apostles and prophets (spoken of for the church after the resurrection and so different in ministration than the original 12 although they overlap into the new Testament) then we must get rid of pastors also.

But the perfect man is when we see Jesus face to face. Then we will be perfect.

Paul said,

“ Philippians 3 - 11. If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.”

Romans 8 - 19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God...23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”


Also, consider when men pray to God and commune with their own heart and they are talking in spirit to God. He also teaches them and works in them and directs their steps and speaks to the heart.

None of this will contradict scripture if it is the Lord.

Even when reading scripture we cannot really understand the spiritual things unless Jesus works in us and opens our understanding and teaches us.

Luke 24 - 32. And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?”

Here are my reasons why...

Tongues and Prophecy Have Ceased:

1. Tongues and prophecy have ceased ~ 1 Corinthians 13:8-13. Verse 8 says, “...whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;” and verse 8 says, “whether there be tongues, they shall cease;” The question is when do tongues and prophecies cease? Verse 10 says “ when that which is perfect is come”; And verse 11 says, “when I became a man, I put away childish things.” Are we going to be children (and not men) upon this Earth until Christ takes us home?
   
   
2. That which is “perfect” (neuter in the Greek) is in reference to the “Perfect law of liberty” (James 1:25). The law of the Lord is “perfect” (Psalms 19:7). All Scripture (the Bible) is profitable so that the man of God may be “perfect” unto every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
   
   
3. James 1:23 and 1 Corinthians 13:12 both describe the Bible as a mirror/glass that we see our reflection in. Some people look into a mirror and forget their physical appearance. Some people look into the Bible mirror and forget their spiritual appearance. Therefore, Glass / Mirror = Perfect = The Word of God. 1 Corinthians 13:12 describes the "perfect" as a glass mirror, just as James 1:23 does. 2 Corinthians 3:18 also shows the glass, and hence the perfect to be the Word of God, which transforms us. It says: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (Also see verse 15 in the same chapter). As we look into God's Word and we see Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit transforms us into the very image of Jesus Christ. "We all" means all believers, seeing in the Bible/glass, the glory of the Lord. "Open face" means that we can hide nothing from God; We must be open and honest with Him.
   
   
4. Tongues were for a sign that the Jews looked for. 1 Corinthians 1:22 says, “For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:” But Jesus says, “ An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;” (Matthew 12:39). Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. (1 Corinthians 14:22). "In the law it is written, with men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people (Jews); and yet for all that (all the tongues) will they (Jews) not hear me (warning ignored), saith the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14:21. Tongues here clearly are a warning to the Jews that they ignore. 1 Corinthians 14:21 is quoting from Deuteronomy 28:49 where God warns of judgment coming from "a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand."
   
   
5. Tongues authenticated the apostles' message as from God."And they (apostles) went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs (tongues, healing, exorcism etc.) following. Amen." Mark 16:20. Today the need for tongues has ceased. God has authenticated the apostles and the New Testament that they penned. This proves the temporary nature of tongues.
   
   
6. We can see that after the book of Acts, the gifts no longer operated in Paul’s life like they once had. The sign gifts, tongues, prophecy, the gift of healing, etc. were operating all through the Book of Acts, and these gifts are mentioned in the letters that Paul wrote during the Acts period. But when we turn to the letters written after the Book of Acts—the 4 Prison Epistles, and the 3 Pastoral Epistles, we find that the sign gifts either aren’t mentioned at all or we see—as with the gift of healing—that they were no longer operating in Paul’s life. What he could do in Acts 28, he could no longer do in Philippians, or in 1 and 2 Timothy. He could heal all the sick on the island in Acts of the Apostles 28:9, but he couldn’t heal any of his closest co-workers—Timothy, Epaphroditus, Trophimus—after the close of the Book of Acts (See this article here for the full explanation).
   
   
7. Notice that both 1 Corinthians 13:11 and Ephesians 4:13 equate attaining fullness of knowledge with becoming a perfect or mature man. What have childish things got to do with temporary gifts of prophecy, tongues and knowledge? Answer: Paul is comparing a human advancing from childhood to adulthood, with the church passing from infancy in the first century marked by prophecy, tongues and knowledge gifts to maturity marked by believers depending on the Bible, faith, hope and charity from 96 AD to the rapture. By 96 AD the childish gifts of prophecy, tongues and knowledge had ceased, and church manhood had been reached. A man comes to fulness of the knowledge of Christ by Scripture; For all Scripture is profitable for doctrine that the man of God may be perfect unto every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17) (Note: Back in the early church, the gift of knowledge was the giving of special revelation of either history, and or doctrine that the apostles did not have on their own; In the OT, Moses received the gift of knowledge to pen the details of history in the Torah; In the NT, Certain men of God (in the early church) had received new knowledge from God to teach new doctrine, like Peter, James, John, and Paul etc. so as to write inspired Scripture).
   
   
8. While God can heal people directly Himself today, the gift of miracles is not given to any one believer that we know today. No Charismatic can always heal. Yet, the Bible says that they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. This means 100% recovery all the time. No one can do this today, as the apostles could in Acts of the Apostles 5:12-16. "By the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people.....they (believers) brought forth the sick into the streets.....and they were healed every one". (Acts of the Apostles 5:16).
   
   
9. New revelation (prophecy) or new words from God are not to be added (Revelation 22:18-19). If a person were to add to God’s Word, the plagues that are within the book known as the Bible (not the plagues in Revelation) would be added to them. We have occurrences of this actually happening. See these two links here: Bible Correctors lose Voice
   Bible Corrector Loses Voice on Ankerberg Show...............................................................................................................................................................................................................
10. The context of I Corinthians is rebuking 13 errors, such as tongues, and it is not recommending tongues. The Corinthian church was filled with problems that Paul corrects in this book, such as:
    
    
    (a) They were following their favorite human leaders causing divisions. 1:11-14
    (b) " " favoring human wisdom. 1:18-2:13
    (c) " " carnal, living for self, not controlled by the Spirit. 2:14-3:7
    (d) " " forgetting the future Judgment Seat of Christ. 3:8-23
    (e) " " proud, thinking of themselves more highly than they ought. 4:1-21
    (f) " " failing to discipline, by tolerating a fornicator. 5:1-13
    (g) " " taking fellow believers to court. 6:1-20
    (h) " " confused about marriage. 7:1-40
    (i) " " confused about liberty thinking it meant licence to do as they please, even stumbling others. 8 ,9 ,10.
    (j) " " confused about clothing, long hair on men and Lord's Supper. 11
    (k). " " confused about spiritual gifts, especially tongues. 12-14
    (l) " " confused about the resurrection. 15
    (m) " " confused about the collection. 16​
    
    As we can see the Corinthian church was deep in error and false doctrine. It was the only church that emphasized tongues as today's Charismatics do. Charismatics therefore place themselves in very bad company. Charismatics fail to understand that Paul is not endorsing tongues, but is rebuking the wrong use of tongues and is strongly regulating tongues contrary to today's Charismatics. Today's emphasis on assemblies with more than on person speaking at the same time is plainly wrong (1 Corinthians 14:27). Paul feared that even one person speaking in tongues without proper interpretation would give the appearance of barbarians or insanity (1 Corinthians 14:11) (1 Corinthians 14:23). What would he think of today's mass hysteria? Today's spontaneous, wild use outside of Scriptural limits is wrong. The gift of prophecy, far superior in every way to tongues, was under the control of the prophets For it is written: “Remember that people who prophesy are in control of their spirit and can take turns.” (1 Corinthians 14:32) (NLT). So Paul's repeated instructions about the right use of the gift of tongues required it to be a very controllable gift, not a force or power controlling the user. Paul valued 5 words with the understanding rather than 10,000 words without the understanding (i.e. tongues)! So Preaching is far superior in God's purpose and for the churches' profit (1 Corinthians 14:19) (1 Corinthians 14:39). The gifts had a purpose and a place in time. They were to authenticate the church and the New Covenant. But seeing that which is "perfect" has come (the Bible), we do not need any more revelation. The Bible has all the revelation or instruction that we need today.

Anyways, if you disagree, please know I still love you brother;
And may God's goodness be upon you.


Source used:
Why Prophecy, Tongues, and Knowledge Ceased in the 1st Century
When Did the Gift of Tongues Cease?
Tongues Have Ceased
(Please take note that I am only in agreement with what I quoted in their articles within this post; That does not mean I agree with everything they said on this topic or that I agree with their other beliefs).

 

[Francis Drake]

All prophecy since those who received the gift through an apostles hands, and died, is false.

Equally, all teaching since those who received the gift through an apostles hands, and died, is false teaching.
So why should anyone listen to your false teaching?

 

[Francis Drake]

Only if you stick with scripture alone.

But you cessationists never ever just stick to scripture, you pervert it with loads of your own lies and opinions

 

[1stcenturylady]

Tongues here clearly are a warning to the Jews that they ignore. 1 Corinthians 14:21 is quoting from Deuteronomy 28:49 where God warns of judgment coming from "a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand."

Jason, Oh my, do you honestly believe speaking in tongues was prophesied in the Old Testament against the Jews? What? With all the enslavement the Jews went through from foreign nations in judgment of their unbelief? LOL NO! That is why tongues is a sign to the unbeliever - it confirms them in their UNBELIEF - and they will mock them and think they are crazy. vs. 22-23. Just as the uninformed in the Church (vs. 23) do today, to say nothing of non-believers. This covenant hasn't ended, and prophecy, tongues and knowledge along with everything else in our covenant will not end until we see Jesus face to face - literally! We STILL see God as through a dark glass by what is written in the Bible, so that knowledge of Him will not be complete and perfect until we get to heaven, again, when we see Him face to face.

I don't expect you to believe me, the Spirit will have to enlighten you, but with so much prejudice, He'll have a time of it. It depends on where your heart is, as this sign reveals the secrets of the heart.

 

[Dave L]

But you cessationists never ever just stick to scripture, you pervert it with loads of your own lies and opinions

“Above all, you do well if you recognize this: No prophecy of scripture ever comes about by the prophet’s own imagination,for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” (2 Peter 1:20–21) (NET)

 

[Dave L]

Equally, all teaching since those who received the gift through an apostles hands, and died, is false teaching.
So why should anyone listen to your false teaching?

It's false until you provide scripture proving otherwise.

 

[swordsman1]

Jason, Oh my, do you honestly believe speaking in tongues was prophesied in the Old Testament against the Jews? What? With all the enslavement the Jews went through from foreign nations in judgment of their unbelief? LOL NO! That is why tongues is a sign to the unbeliever - it confirms them in their UNBELIEF - and they will mock them and think they are crazy. vs. 22-23. Just as the uninformed in the Church (vs. 23) do today, to say nothing of non-believers.

Tongues that were understood, either by translation or natively knowing the language,
were a positive sign. eg. Pentecost, 1 Cor 14:5. But untranslated tongues, such as the foreign languages spoken by the Assyrian invaders and the tongues speakers in Corinth, were regarded a curse. Foreign languages spoken among God's people were always considered a sign of God's judgement (Isa 28:11, Deut 28:49, Jer 5:15). That is why the local jews at Pentecost and the unbelievers and enquirers in 1 Cor 14:22, would be repulsed by hearing unrecognized languages spoken among God's people. They would see it as a negative sign, which is why Paul gave a command forbidding untranslated tongues in church.

Notice that Paul equates the tongues of Corinth with the languages of the foreign invading armies - one of the proofs that Corinthian tongues was a foreign human language.

 

[RDKirk]

You shouldn't be trusting in your feelings, thinking that is God speaking to you. Feelings are subjective and fickle. And nowhere does scripture command us to do that. You have the scriptures, select a church that preaches them.

I often get a strong feeling that I don't want to go to work. Is that God saying to me, "Quit your job"?

I didn't get a "feeling." I got a voice: "Tell them tomorrow you'll join."

Then the next day, one of the associate pastors paid us an unannounced visit.

While we were in that congregation, the Lord did some mighty things in our lives.

Now, you know nothing about any of those kinds of things, primary because you don't believe God is actually doing anything in anyone's life.

 

[Dave L]

I didn't get a "feeling." I got a voice: "Tell them tomorrow you'll join."

Then the next day, one of the associate pastors paid us an unannounced visit.

While we were in that congregation, the Lord did some mighty things in our lives.

Now, you know nothing about any of those kinds of things, primary because you don't believe God is actually doing anything in anyone's life.

How does your experience relate to this?

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13) (KJV 1900)

I've not heard voices in my head but know which churches to attend and which ones to avoid based on how they align with scripture. Also praying for wisdom moves us in the right direction. Love always chooses the right path. Etc.

 

[Francis Drake]

“Above all, you do well if you recognize this: No prophecy of scripture ever comes about by the prophet’s own imagination,for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” (2 Peter 1:20–21) (NET)

Nobody is disputing what Peter says, so how does that help your doctrine of demons?

 

[Dave L]

Nobody is disputing what Peter says, so how does that help your doctrine of demons?

Peter says prophecy in scripture does not come from people's imaginations. Implying that what people pass off as prophecy today is nothing more than imagination.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, Oh my, do you honestly believe speaking in tongues was prophesied in the Old Testament against the Jews? What? With all the enslavement the Jews went through from foreign nations in judgment of their unbelief? LOL NO! That is why tongues is a sign to the unbeliever - it confirms them in their UNBELIEF - and they will mock them and think they are crazy. vs. 22-23. Just as the uninformed in the Church (vs. 23) do today, to say nothing of non-believers. This covenant hasn't ended, and prophecy, tongues and knowledge along with everything else in our covenant will not end until we see Jesus face to face - literally! We STILL see God as through a dark glass by what is written in the Bible, so that knowledge of Him will not be complete and perfect until we get to heaven, again, when we see Him face to face.

I don't expect you to believe me, the Spirit will have to enlighten you, but with so much prejudice, He'll have a time of it. It depends on where your heart is, as this sign reveals the secrets of the heart.

Do you believe you always need an interpreter present?
Do you believe that no more than 2 or 3 should speak at a time?
Do you believe that the speaking in tongues gift is controllable?
Here is a test.
Have one interpreter come and interpret the tongue message.
Then have a second interpreter (who was not present in the room) to come and hear the same tongue message again and then see if their interpretations match up. I believe during the early church, they would pass this test. But not today.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, Oh my, do you honestly believe speaking in tongues was prophesied in the Old Testament against the Jews? What? With all the enslavement the Jews went through from foreign nations in judgment of their unbelief? LOL NO! That is why tongues is a sign to the unbeliever - it confirms them in their UNBELIEF - and they will mock them and think they are crazy. vs. 22-23. Just as the uninformed in the Church (vs. 23) do today, to say nothing of non-believers. This covenant hasn't ended, and prophecy, tongues and knowledge along with everything else in our covenant will not end until we see Jesus face to face - literally! We STILL see God as through a dark glass by what is written in the Bible, so that knowledge of Him will not be complete and perfect until we get to heaven, again, when we see Him face to face.

I don't expect you to believe me, the Spirit will have to enlighten you, but with so much prejudice, He'll have a time of it. It depends on where your heart is, as this sign reveals the secrets of the heart.

Also, who do you know is able to heal like Paul and the other apostles?
It's interesting that many claim they have tongues, but why not the gift of healing or the protection from snakes? If all gifts are there, then we should see an equal balance of all these gifts today (like we did back in the early church).

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that I do believe GOD can do miracles today and He can heal, etc. But this is not a gift given to His people like at the beginning of the early church (But it would be a miracle that comes directly from GOD in His own time and choosing).

 

[LoveofTruth]

No, 'knowing in part' (v9, v12) in this passage is referring the spiritual gift of words of knowledge (1 Cor 12:8). This is a passage about 3 gifts ceasing. How can it be knowledge of God and Christ when it says it will be done away (v8)!

First, I agree that Paul is speaking of the supernatural revelatory aspects of knowing in part when he speaks of Prophecy, Tongues and knowledge (possibly the word of knowledge or supernatural knowledge given by God) shall cease (in the future when that which is perfect is come and we are unto the perfect man unto the knowledge of the Son of God and the unity of the faith). Because then we won’t need to have such revelatory gifts to reveal the mysteries and things of God and Jesus Christ for we shall know the things of God and God and Jesus Christ face to face as we see His face. The mystery that is hid will be known as well. .But the word "knowledge" and "know and "Known" are different Greek words and meanings in the context. I will touch on this a bit further down

Lets look at the words again in the two sections that shows this and how they are connected and why this is not talking about the scriptures coming in the future and being compiled in the 15 and 16 hundreds.

"...but whether there be prophecies,"
[supernatural unctions and revelations of the mysteries of God and events and things of God]

"they shall fail;"
They will cease and be no longer needed when we are in a glorified body and when we see and know face to face

"whether there be tongues,"
[supernatual gift in speaking the mysteries of God and the things of God and proclaimation]

"they shall cease;"
They will cease and be no longer needed when we are in a glorified body and when we see and know face to face

"whether there be knowledge,"
[supernatural revelation of the mysteries of God events and things God would have men know]

"it shall vanish away."
They will cease and be no longer needed when we are in a glorified body and when we see and know face to face

"9 For we know in part,"
Paul speaks here of himself as well when he says "we". He is not talking only about the future generations that shall come (though they would be included in the words "until we all come unto the perfect man). The words "know in part " speak of what things are freely given to us of God and this is not the whole yet.

"and we prophesy in part."
Paul speaks here of himself again as well when he says "we". He is not talking only about the future generations that shall come who would not need prophecy because they now have the compiled scriptures. Prophecy can speak of the mysteries of God and future events and forthtell etc. But when the perfect has come and we are unto the perfect man and see him face to face then all will be known and no more need of the parts. The whole will be known. But until then these are needed all the gifts and ministries of the church.

"10 But when that which is perfect is come,
In the section Paul speaks of the perfect MAN as he did in Ephesians 4 compare. The same Greek word for "perfect" is used. While it is true that believers can be perfect in faith and in Christ, there is a two fold aspect to our being perfect. One is in spirit in faith and the other is in a resurrected body made perfect . This will be in fullness the perfect man. Paul seems to speak about both and when he says when that which is perfect is come. he is not referring to himself not being perfect in faith in Christ.Paul wanted to perfect that which s lacking in others faith and to present them perfect before God.

But Paul connects the "perfect" with "man" in both cases

"10 But when that which is perfect is come,...when I became a man"(1 Cor 13)

"13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"(Ephesians 4:13 KJV)

The "fullness of Christ" may be referring to when Christ is all in all in the future.

And Paul is not saying that the five fold ministries were not needed in his day when men came to the perfect man then in time? and in the unity of the faith? This can't be the cas because God gave apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers UNTIL we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God unto the perfect man. They are still needed until we ALL come to this. And not all are come to this yet, so they are all needed today. The word "Until we all come" is a ongoing process and future process as well. The culmination of the edifying of the body of Christ and the perfecting of the saints will be unto that which is perfect the perfect man in Christ and unto His fulness who will be all in all. Yes we can walk in this perfection in faith and spirit now. But like I said there is a two fold aspect of our completion or perfection. We still wait for the redemption of our bodies.
"
Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Now consider how Paul uses "perfect again here

Philippians 3:12
"11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

Paul is speaking of the "resurrection of the dead. At that time he would be perfect or the perfect man. This would be when that which is perfect is come. Then we will have a glorfied body and Christ will be all in all and the supernatural revelatory gifts of prophecy, tongues and knowledge will not be needed. But until then we only see in part. Just having scripture does not mean we see everything. Even John wrote that everything Jesus did was not written down. There are many things to know and see with the Lord in eternity and about God and His truth and mystery.
Interestingly Paul also uses the expression "I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.", this is similar to His words in 1 Cor 13 when he said, "but then shall I know even as also I am known.". The words "apprehend" and Know" have similar meanings in Greek. The word "apprehend" meaning apprehend, pereceive, comprehend. The word "know" means, perceive, recognize become fully acquainted with.

"perfect" is the same Greek word used in 1 Cor 13 and Ephesians 4. which is not achieved yet as he said in philippians "not as though I ..were already perfect],

"then that which is in part shall be done away."

The word "in part" has to do with the parts of supernatural revelation and knowledge of God through gifts. The whole will be when we know as we are known. The word "knowledge" (gnosis in Greek) I do see referring to the gifts and the word is a different Greek word than "know" (ginossko) in the same section. So when you said,

"How can it be knowledge of God and Christ when it says it will be done away (v8)"

The gifts of "knowledge" or the "word of knowledge" or "supernatural knowledge given", will cease . But when Paul says, I shall "know" as I am "known" are different words and meanings. To know in part does not specifically refer to the word of "knowledge" it refers to knowing the mysteries and things of God and Jesus Christ through either prophecy, tongues and knowledge as the context shows. . Then Paul "i shall know even as I am known". He is not using the word he used for "Knowledge", but used "know" and "known", in Greek speaking of "perceiving and being fully aquainted with and recogizing". So what is done away is the supernatural gift of knowledge that God gives until that which is perfect is come or until we unto the perfect man and are resurrected from the dead and made perfect.

To know God and Jesus Christ is eternal life (John 17:3KJV) we will always know him in glory. This is never done away.

What Paul speaks of involves him as well. And he speaks of this application to himself also. He says

"10 But when that which is perfect is come,...now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

This is not speaking of the scriptures to be compiled in the 15 and 16 hundreds as the bible. If Paul was peaking of the scriptures being compiled in the long distant future, far after he had died, how could this section be applied to him? How could he say "now I know in part; but then shall I know"

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."(1 Corinthians 13:8-17 KJV)

Paul is applying this all to himself as well. And that even the mighty apostle Paul only saw through a glass darkly. He says "we" including himself and all other believers UNTIL that which is perfect is come and he says THEN I shall know even as I am known"

There is no escaping the personal aspect Paul uses here for himself. This clearly shows that he is not speaking of scriptures to come in the future but applying this to himself also. So words like "when that which is perfect is come" or "then shall I know" are used they are related to Paul also. But Paul has died and gone to the Lord long before the scripture we have today were compiled in a book. Yet the things he said will still applied to him and all believers.

Yes we can be perfected in faith now, as Paul sought to present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. And scripture is for the perfecting of the saints. But that which is perfect I see referring to the new glorified body the manifest sons of God and seeing Jesus face to face.

Paul even told Timothy that the scriptures (speaking in that context of the Old Testament scriptures that they had) were able to make one wise through faith into salvation and to give all things that pertain to life and godliness. So Paul already showed the gospel which was according to the scriptures. To try and imply that the churches of those days did not have all they needed and had only "part" is not accurate. Yes they may not have had the writings of Paul, Peter, John, Jude Matthew, Luke, Mark, but they did have many of these men in person speaking to them as well.

But they still had what was needed and "all things".

2 Peter 1:3
"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:"

Paul wanted to present every man perfect even in those days as well, and if he didn't have the scriptures as we do how could he do that?

"17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen."(Ephesians 3:17-21 KJV)

They also had Jesus Christ in them and they could do all things through Christ and Jesus himself said without him we can do nothing.

The "know in part" verse is for now, knowing the mysteries and things of God and Jesus Christ “in part”, but the full knowledge and knowing the things of God and Jesus Christ comes when we see Jesus face to face and perceive clearly the things of God and the mysteries and then the saying shall come to pass,

1 Corinthians 15:54
"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

For now we walk by faith and not by sight but then we shall knowceven as we are known and face to face.

The "face to face" part of 1 Cor 13:12 is a key and is reference to a future aspect in this section. Here and Paul applies what he spoke to himself as well, when he says,

"For now we see through a glass, darkly but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.""

Paul contrast "then" future, with "now" present. and again goes to the future aspect and says "But then shall I know. Again Paul applies this to himself personally as well.

While it is true that the Spirit of God reveals the glorious mysteries Christ to us now in part, and we still go from glory to glory, eventually we will be in a glorified body and be perfect, or unto the perfect man in heaven. Yes we can now be a perfect man is spirit through faith, but when that which is perfect is come Ii see referring to our glorified state face to face with Jesus where we are no more seeing through glass darkly.

1 John 3:2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

""17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."

Romans 8:21
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

 

[LoveofTruth]

No, it's completely different. Rev 22 says, "HIS face". 1 Cor 13 simply says 'face to face'. There is no indication whatsoever that it is our face seeing Christ's face in 1 Cor 13....Sorry but just quoting multitudes of verses that contain the word 'face' or vaguely similar references is simply grasping at straws. There are also dozens of verses where the word 'face' where it is NOT referring to God's face.

No indication?

Yet the expression face to face is used all over the scriptures here are a few of them again. In case you didn't examine them closely,

"With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?(Numbers 12:8 KJV) Here we see that when God speaks mouth to mouth or face to face, there are no dark speeches. It is as if the part is done away and no more misunderstanding, it would not be in a glass darkly either in some sense.

Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

"11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle."(Exodus 33:11 KJV)

"The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,"(Deuteronomy 5:4 KJV)

At the time of Paul's writing, when church had to rely on piecemeal prophecies for guidance in the faith in the absence of the NT,

Oh really, and yet they had what was needed for all things as we read,

"15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."(This scripture Paul speaks of refers to the Old testament scriptures which Paul also said that the gospel was according to in 1 Cor 15. This is way before the 15 and 16 hundreds. This idea that they were ignorant and weak and did not have the provision to be strong in faith is not correct.Notice also the reference from a child.

And they still had what was needed and "all things".

2 Peter 1:3
"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:"

Paul wanted to present every man perfect even in those days as well, and if he didn't have the scriptures as we do how could he do that?

"17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen."(Ephesians 3:17-21 KJV)


They also had Jesus Christ in them and they could do all things through Christ and Jesus himself said without him we can do nothing.

 

[Francis Drake]

Peter says prophecy in scripture does not come from people's imaginations. Implying that what people pass off as prophecy today is nothing more than imagination.

You constantly boasts how you "stick to scripture", but your comment exposes how false that claim is.
Read that verse again.-
2Peter1v21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

That verse makes no implication whatsoever, that prophecy today is rooted in the imagination, any more than past prophecy was.​

You have added to scripture, to try and deceive people.

False prophecy is nothing new, having been around since Eden, and is certainly rooted in a man's or demon's imagination, not God.
In just the same way, the false teaching of cessationism is rooted in a man's or demon's imagination, and not God.

 

[Dave L]

You constantly boasts how you "stick to scripture", but your comment exposes how false that claim is.
Read that verse again.-
2Peter1v21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

That verse makes no implication whatsoever, that prophecy today is rooted in the imagination, any more than past prophecy was.​

You have added to scripture, to try and deceive people.

False prophecy is nothing new, having been around since Eden, and is certainly rooted in a man's or demon's imagination, not God.
In just the same way, the false teaching of cessationism is rooted in a man's or demon's imagination, and not God.

Who most likely ends up being rejected by Christ on the last day?

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22–23) (KJV 1900)

Mainline Church Christians? Or those who chase after yesterday's gifts?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Do you believe you always need an interpreter present?
Do you believe that no more than 2 or 3 should speak at a time?
Do you believe that the speaking in tongues gift is controllable?
Here is a test.
Have one interpreter come and interpret the tongue message.
Then have a second interpreter (who was not present in the room) to come and hear the same tongue message again and then see if their interpretations match up. I believe during the early church, they would pass this test. But not today.

I see you believe there is only one manifestation of speaking in tongues, but there are two.

Do you believe in your prayer closet you must have an interpreter present to pray in tongues?

 

[Francis Drake]

Who most likely ends up being rejected by Christ on the last day?

So, failing to prove your false doctrine, you now you tell me I'll be rejected by Christ on the last day!
Good discussion tactics.

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22–23) (KJV 1900)

So I will be cast out as a worker of iniquity?
No matter how much I despise the cessationism you try to impose, I still accept you as a brother, albeit blinded by demonic doctrines.
However we shall both be there with the Lord on that day. So please refrain from such foolish accusations.

Mainline Church Christians? Or those who chase after yesterday's gifts?

For 1800 years, your mainline churches have done their best to crush spiritual truth.