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The natural order is self-evident - it's simply the numbers of what is most "natural." Nothing silly about that.Appeals to natural order are silly in this discussion. Given that God is so transcendent and above human cognition, how do we not know its God's will that certain people are born with a sense of being the opposite sex?
The natural order is self-evident - it's simply the numbers of what is most "natural." Nothing silly about that.
But your deduction is correct: Indeed, God has made some exceptions to what is most common. However, they can never be considered "equal" or that it lessens the general terms...which is simply true because of the numbers.
we can't currently do anything to resolve it on the gender side. It has to do with brain structure, and we don't have a good answer for that yet. So all of our progress thus far has been on the sex side, with quite a bit of success.
I don't think that a civilized society would pursue medical treatments trying to fix the brains of transsexuals to make them happy with their birth-sex. The phenomenon of gender identity is so complex that it would probably required very intrusive medical interventions. That strikes at the heart of the dignity of the human being and their self-determination, something we in western societies value a great deal... precisely because it is part of our Jewish and Christian traditions.
You are offended because, being a person, I should speak as a person, and not consider things from God's perspective - who, by design has made things imperfect for a reason. But we are not talking about my perspective, or yours, or why society should think of anything but itself - we are here to understand God.What do you mean, they cannot be considered equal? Human equality is a basic belief in most Christian and Jewish theologies. Just because transgender people are rare also doesn't make the issue inconsequential to Christian ethics. Jesus was willing to risk the 99 good sheep for the one odd sheep out, so why shouldn't our theology be willing to do the same?
I don't think that a civilized society would pursue medical treatments trying to fix the brains of transsexuals to make them happy with their birth-sex. The phenomenon of gender identity is so complex that it would probably required very intrusive medical interventions. That strikes at the heart of the dignity of the human being and their self-determination, something we in western societies value a great deal... precisely because it is part of our Jewish and Christian traditions.
So dressing up in my Tigger outfit makes me Tigger. You are what you wear.Actually, kids beliefs about gender are not necessarily tied to biology. Some children think just wearing different clothes will cause them to become that gender. And there are real human cultures where wearing the clothes of another gender is considered the same as becoming that gender (Native American cultures). So the idea that dressing as a woman and living as a woman makes you a woman is really not that bizarre. It's only bizarre in a culture that believes that rigid gender roles must be enforced.
So dressing up in my Tigger outfit makes me Tigger. You are what you wear.
Nonsense. It's a biological issue. You are a man or a woman. The rest is either an anomaly or a fantasy.This is a metaphysical issue... and most mature people now days know metaphysics is the black hole of philosophy. But if you take human self determination seriously, it's hard to be dismissive.
Do we fail to treat the schizoid in case we mess with their self-determination? Or do they actually gain dignity from a reduction in symptoms?
It might benefit you to consider the implications of a world in which you're expected to acknowledge (and pander to) every mad whim on the part of others. I'm a skinny, 50 year old female of shortish stature, but I identify as a male Viking, and insist that you accommodate my need to live in the manner of the 800AD Dane. My husband identifies as a chicken, so please remember to make room for his avian needs as you go about your day.
Nonsense. It's a biological issue. You are a man or a woman. The rest is either an anomaly or a fantasy.
...Except that Gender Dysphoria is still in the DSM-5, and nobody is pushing for the next revision to remove it. It is actually a pathology, as anyone suffering from it can tell you (gender dysphoria is inherently harmful to the person who it applies to; reassignment is one of a few harm reduction strategies), and I don't believe that, were someone to present a viable treatment method that was based on reassigning gender rather than sex, this would be rejected. Do you have any basis for this claim?That's the problem. There is so much politicised weight behind the de-pathologising of gender confusion, and it's not cohesive weight (there are MANY 'anti-trans' gay people who've lost their voice due to the melding of the colours in the rainbow), that we're now well past any possibility of finding practical psychiatric treatments.
@ThatRobGuy made a similar claim, albeit far less strongly, that research into that field hasn't really progressed as far as it could have if we took a harder line on it (or something like that, feel free to correct me if that wasn't your position), which is considerably more reasonable...
As you mentioned in your post, until fairly recently, people would pretend they didn't exist...now, I feel it's transitioned into this societal push into pretending the condition doesn't exist (IE: thinking it's completely normal and not a condition at all).
If something's not viewed as a condition or medical problem by society, then there's very little pressure on the scientific community to research the issue.
you've seen the figures on how few therapists even want to treat transgendered individuals, right?
If it were shown that the most effective way to deal with your mental disorder (yes, GD is a mental disorder) was to accommodate that and help you transition into a form more in line with your identification, then yes, that is probably what we would do. Given that that is not the case, given that such cases are extremely fringe, and given that they are typically more representative of other mental disorders which we treat in very different ways, I don't think that's the case. Seriously, all these analogies seem to miss the issue completely.
So... what about all the evidence that gender is a biologically-expressed phenomenon?
Why should we consider this person not a female for the purposes of using the bathroom? If they are legitimately transgendered, i.e. they identify as a woman, what, exactly, is the problem here? And keep in mind, in keeping this guy out, you're also ensuring that these people are legally obligated to use the women's restroom.I don't want my two little girls to be in the women's only restroom and have someone, who is clearly NOT a female, walking into the room as if.....
Like this guy who is clearly NOT a female:
Why should we consider this person not a female for the purposes of using the bathroom? If they are legitimately transgendered, i.e. they identify as a woman, what, exactly, is the problem here? And keep in mind, in keeping this guy out, you're also ensuring that these people are legally obligated to use the women's restroom.
Not according to the law in many places, not according to her gender, and not according to any reasonable consideration of the evidence. Is this a woman?Because he's a male.
And women have the right to expect that men won't be allowed in the women's bathroom even if they put on a dress and a wig.
You're right! Our anatomy also defines our sex. These are two distinct things! For some people, they get a female gender and a male sex. They may be the rare exception, but that does not diminish their existence, or their rights.Our anatomy defines our gender.
But who cares about the 20 other "normal" 16 year old girls in the locker room?
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