How Could God allow this?

setst777

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
2,202
599
66
Greenfield
Visit site
✟349,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
But isn't it sin that led to corruption of our flesh? If your claim is that we die because of our own sins, and not Adam, then how come babies' flesh is corrupted even though they cannot commit any sins?

When Adam sinned, Paradise on earth removed. The Tree of Life is no longer accessible to mankind to eat of and live forever.

All flesh is now destined to die, but the spirit of man lives forever - either in God's Kingdom or in outer darkness. What counts is the spirit, not the flesh.

For those who put their faith in Jesus, and remain faithful to the end, they will enter that Paradise that was taken away. And we gain far more than that, because our faith was tested here on earth, and those who remain faithful to the end have passed the test. Therefore, the faithful will receive glorified spiritual bodies, and inherit all the promises of God. God will dwell with us forever.

Blessings.
 
Upvote 0

setst777

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
2,202
599
66
Greenfield
Visit site
✟349,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is an interesting point. And instead of getting into the debate about what caused their death, I'd like to bring it back to this thread and discuss the seeming unrighteousness of it and "How can God allow this".

Most of us would say that if the wages of sin are death, then it is unrighteous for someone who knew no sin, to die (for example these innocent babies). Yet none of us disputes the fact that Jesus, who knew no sin, was made sin for us. This is even worse, not only did He die but He was given the death of a criminal, a sinner. He was held up for ridicule to let everyone know not to imitate Him even though that is precisely what God wants us to do. How could God allow this? Paul even says it was God who made Him to be sin.

This is true, but it is not unrighteous and it is not unloving. On the contrary, if I wish to purchase something there is nothing unrighteous about me paying the purchase price.

20 We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be ye reconciled to God. 21 Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

The price was paid and it was because the Lord wanted us to become the righteousness of God. He has the right to pay the price and He has the right to value us to that extent.

Your question,

"How could God allow this" was answered in the following post:

Thank you for expressing this puzzle.

I agree with all that you wrote.

Blessings
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: ZNP
Upvote 0

setst777

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
2,202
599
66
Greenfield
Visit site
✟349,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yes, God created the universe so that man could have free will, and Hitler is evidence that God has given us free will.

However, the horror of the holocaust is part of the universe created by God. The question is how could a loving God, in whom is no darkness, who cannot lie, how could such a God create a universe with Hitler in it? Also, although Hitler is responsible for his actions and his sins, God is also responsible for His actions which include creating a universe that He knew would have the holocaust in it.

The horror is the result of free will. Such sins are abhorrent to a holy God. God allows this injustice at this time, until the appointed time of judgment so that He may save those out of the world that put their faith in His Son, and by that faith, listen to and follow Him.

In this time of grace (before the judgment), corruption and evil rule in this earth, but the innocent, and those who believe in Jesus until the end, will be saved from it.

God will not let the righteous be condemned with the unrighteous. But God does promise suffering, tribulation, and temptations to test our faith and refine it through the corruption that is in this present system. Those that pass the test, remaining faithful to the end, will be saved.

All of this was answered in depth in my post as follows:

Thank you for expressing this puzzle.

Blessings
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ZNP
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,772
1,309
sg
✟214,745.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When Adam sinned, Paradise on earth removed. The Tree of Life is no longer accessible to mankind to eat of and live forever.

All flesh is now destined to die, but the spirit of man lives forever - either in God's Kingdom or in outer darkness. What counts is the spirit, not the flesh.

For those who put their faith in Jesus, and remain faithful to the end, they will enter that Paradise that was taken away. And we gain far more than that, because our faith was tested here on earth, and those who remain faithful to the end have passed the test. Therefore, the faithful will receive glorified spiritual bodies, and inherit all the promises of God. God will dwell with us forever.

Blessings.

Thanks, so no matter how you reason it, Romans 5:14 still explains that it was Adam's disobedience that resulted in the death, even for those who could not commit a sin knowingly, like infants.

It was not our individual sins that resulted in death, it was Adam's.

So likewise, it was not us putting our faith in Jesus that resulted in righteousness, it was Jesus's faithfulness to God.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,413
6,797
✟915,391.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Thanks, so no matter how you reason it, Romans 5:14 still explains that it was Adam's disobedience that resulted in the death, even for those who could not commit a sin knowingly, like infants.

It was not our individual sins that resulted in death, it was Adam's.

The death sin brings is the second death not the first death every human has experienced to this day. Adam was created mortal and the first death was natural and unrelated to his sin.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,772
1,309
sg
✟214,745.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The death sin brings is the second death not the first death every human has experienced to this day. Adam was created mortal and the first death was natural and unrelated to his sin.

Romans 5:12-14 made it clear that sin enters only after Adam has sinned. Together with sin, death also entered.

When God created human, he never intended them to die, so I don't see how you can call death natural. It was repeated by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:26
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,413
6,797
✟915,391.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
When God created human, he never intended them to die

That isn't true. Man was created mortal and intended to die...you know the whole dust to dust returning to the Earth thing?

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Adam was in the natural body which is mortal NOT the spiritual body which is immortal.

A natural body is intended to die and be raised a spiritual body. Paul knew Adam was not created immortal because he says the first man was made "natural" which was a natural body as opposed to the "spiritual body" which is immortal. The very idea that Adam was created in a natural and mortal body would have been foreign to Paul and any of the disciples.



1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.


1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


The first man Adam was earthy. That is another way of saying he was mortal.

1Pe_1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

This speaks of the flesh made from the dust, intended to wither away.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


This does not only apply post fall because Paul is using Adam as the example of the first man who was Earthly, having a "natural body" as opposed to a "spiritual body". Verse 46 makes it clear Adam was NOT in the spiritual body when he was created! This is evidence that Adam was in a mortal, natural, earthly body and NOT in a heavenly, super natural, spiritual body.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Thanks, so no matter how you reason it, Romans 5:14 still explains that it was Adam's disobedience that resulted in the death, even for those who could not commit a sin knowingly, like infants.

It was not our individual sins that resulted in death, it was Adam's.

So likewise, it was not us putting our faith in Jesus that resulted in righteousness, it was Jesus's faithfulness to God.
You’re draw an erroneous conclusion. We have to ourselves believe.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,772
1,309
sg
✟214,745.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That isn't true. Man was created mortal and intended to die...you know the whole dust to dust returning to the Earth thing?

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Adam was in the natural body which is mortal NOT the spiritual body which is immortal.

A natural body is intended to die and be raised a spiritual body. Paul knew Adam was not created immortal because he says the first man was made "natural" which was a natural body as opposed to the "spiritual body" which is immortal. The very idea that Adam was created in a natural and mortal body would have been foreign to Paul and any of the disciples.



1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.


1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


The first man Adam was earthy. That is another way of saying he was mortal.

1Pe_1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

This speaks of the flesh made from the dust, intended to wither away.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


This does not only apply post fall because Paul is using Adam as the example of the first man who was Earthly, having a "natural body" as opposed to a "spiritual body". Verse 46 makes it clear Adam was NOT in the spiritual body when he was created! This is evidence that Adam was in a mortal, natural, earthly body and NOT in a heavenly, super natural, spiritual body.

How does this discussion address my point about Romans 5:14

The point I was trying to say is that a baby can die physically even without committing any sin. So he must have died because of Adam's sin.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Dorothy Mae
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

setst777

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
2,202
599
66
Greenfield
Visit site
✟349,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thanks, so no matter how you reason it, Romans 5:14 still explains that it was Adam's disobedience that resulted in the death, even for those who could not commit a sin knowingly, like infants.

It was not our individual sins that resulted in death, it was Adam's.

So likewise, it was not us putting our faith in Jesus that resulted in righteousness, it was Jesus's faithfulness to God.

Hi Guojing,

The innocent, and those who put their faith in Jesus will never die spiritually, although their earthly bodies will die.

Adam's sin does not bring God's condemnation on the righteous. God condemns to hell only for our own sins.

God is righteous in that He does not condemn us for the sins of others:

Ezekiel 18:10-28 (WEB)
10 “If he fathers a son who is a robber who sheds blood, and who does any one of these things, 11 or who does not do any of those things, but even has eaten at the mountain shrines, and defiled his neighbor’s wife, 12 has wronged the poor and needy, has taken by robbery, has not restored the pledge, and has lifted up his eyes to the idols, has committed abomination, 13 has lent with interest, and has taken increase from the poor; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations. He shall surely die. His blood will be on him.
14 “Now, behold, if he fathers a son, who sees all his father’s sins, which he has done, and fears, and does not such like; 15 who hasn’t eaten on the mountains, hasn’t lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hasn’t defiled his neighbor’s wife, 16 hasn’t wronged any, hasn’t taken anything to pledge, hasn’t taken by robbery, but has given his bread to the hungry, and has covered the naked with a garment; 17 who has withdrawn his hand from the poor, who hasn’t received interest or increase, has executed my ordinances, has walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father. He shall surely live. 18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, robbed his brother, and did that which is not good among his people, behold, he will die in his iniquity.
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why doesn’t the son bear the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done that which is lawful and right, and has kept all my statutes, and has done them, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins, he shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.
21 “But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live. He shall not die. 22 None of his transgressions that he has committed will be remembered against him. In his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?

You write:

So likewise, it was not us putting our faith in Jesus that resulted in righteousness, it was Jesus's faithfulness to God.
  • We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ by faith in Jesus.
  • We are saved by faith in Jesus.
The substance of that faith is represented in Baptism.

Romans 6:1-23 (WEB)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection; 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be in bondage to sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 But if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him; 9 knowing that Christ, being raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over him!
10 For the death that he died, he died to sin one time; but the life that he lives, he lives to God. 11 Thus consider yourselves also to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore don’t let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 Also, do not present your members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin will not have dominion over you. For you are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? May it never be! 16 Don’t you know that when you present yourselves as servants and obey someone, you are the servants of whomever you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas you were bondservants of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were delivered. 18 Being made free from sin, you became bondservants of righteousness.
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh, for as you presented your members as servants to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become servants of God, you have your fruit of sanctification and the result of eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And this faith is the same faith that Jesus expressed as the only faith by which we will be saved.

Matthew 28:18-19 (WEB)
18 Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

John 10:27-28 (WEB)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Luke 14:33 (WEB)
33 So therefore whoever of you who doesn’t renounce all that he has, he can’t be my disciple.

Matthew 10: 38 (WEB)
38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me isn’t worthy of me.

Luke 9:23-26 (WEB)
23 He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, will save it. 25 For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits his own self? 26 For whoever will be ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed, when he comes in his glory, and the glory of the Father, and of the holy angels.

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,772
1,309
sg
✟214,745.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Guojing,

The innocent, and those who put their faith in Jesus will never die spiritually, although their earthly bodies will die.

Adam's sin does not bring God's condemnation on the righteous. God condemns to hell only for our own sins.

God is righteous in that He does not condemn us for the sins of others:

Blessings

So let's be clear here, if Adam had not disobeyed God, would his earthly body die as well?

Is there scripture that states that?
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,413
6,797
✟915,391.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
How does this discussion address my point about Romans 5:14

The point I was trying to say is that a baby can die physically even without committing any sin. So he must have died because of Adam's sin.

That's still wrong. A baby dies because babies are mortal.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So let's be clear here, if Adam had not disobeyed God, would his earthly body die as well?

Is there scripture that states that?
Since the wages of sin is death, we can assume if he had resisted sin he wouldn’t have died.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,912
NW England
✟1,041,268.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Jesus is Lord of All. The buck stops with Him.

If God creates evil, everything in the world is through him and "the buck stops with Jesus"; this thread is pointless.
If God created evil - including sickness - and everything is from him, then he doesn't just allow this illness, he deliberately created and willed it. It's the same with everything else. Why would God allow earthquakes? He created them. Why would God allow cancer, MND, Parkinson's to ravage a person's body? He made them so that they would. Why would God allow babies/toddlers to die? He planned it that way. Why would God allow people to set off suicide bombs/drive planes into towers/go on a shooting rampage/attack people with knives? He created it and it's from him. Why would God allow a drunk driver to rob someone of a family? That was his will and what he planned. Nothing to do with the idiot shovelling drinks down his throat and then choosing to get behind the wheel, it was all God.

Thank God my God isn't like that.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hi Guojing,

The innocent, and those who put their faith in Jesus will never die spiritually, although their earthly bodies will die.

Adam's sin does not bring God's condemnation on the righteous. God condemns to hell only for our own sins.

God is righteous in that He does not condemn us for the sins of others:

Ezekiel 18:10-28 (WEB)
10 “If he fathers a son who is a robber who sheds blood, and who does any one of these things, 11 or who does not do any of those things, but even has eaten at the mountain shrines, and defiled his neighbor’s wife, 12 has wronged the poor and needy, has taken by robbery, has not restored the pledge, and has lifted up his eyes to the idols, has committed abomination, 13 has lent with interest, and has taken increase from the poor; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations. He shall surely die. His blood will be on him.
14 “Now, behold, if he fathers a son, who sees all his father’s sins, which he has done, and fears, and does not such like; 15 who hasn’t eaten on the mountains, hasn’t lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hasn’t defiled his neighbor’s wife, 16 hasn’t wronged any, hasn’t taken anything to pledge, hasn’t taken by robbery, but has given his bread to the hungry, and has covered the naked with a garment; 17 who has withdrawn his hand from the poor, who hasn’t received interest or increase, has executed my ordinances, has walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father. He shall surely live. 18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, robbed his brother, and did that which is not good among his people, behold, he will die in his iniquity.
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why doesn’t the son bear the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done that which is lawful and right, and has kept all my statutes, and has done them, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins, he shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.
21 “But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live. He shall not die. 22 None of his transgressions that he has committed will be remembered against him. In his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?

You write:


  • We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ by faith in Jesus.
  • We are saved by faith in Jesus.
The substance of that faith is represented in Baptism.

Romans 6:1-23 (WEB)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection; 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be in bondage to sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 But if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him; 9 knowing that Christ, being raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over him!
10 For the death that he died, he died to sin one time; but the life that he lives, he lives to God. 11 Thus consider yourselves also to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore don’t let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 Also, do not present your members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin will not have dominion over you. For you are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? May it never be! 16 Don’t you know that when you present yourselves as servants and obey someone, you are the servants of whomever you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas you were bondservants of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were delivered. 18 Being made free from sin, you became bondservants of righteousness.
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh, for as you presented your members as servants to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin and having become servants of God, you have your fruit of sanctification and the result of eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And this faith is the same faith that Jesus expressed as the only faith by which we will be saved.

Matthew 28:18-19 (WEB)
18 Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

John 10:27-28 (WEB)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Luke 14:33 (WEB)
33 So therefore whoever of you who doesn’t renounce all that he has, he can’t be my disciple.

Matthew 10: 38 (WEB)
38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me isn’t worthy of me.

Luke 9:23-26 (WEB)
23 He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, will save it. 25 For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits his own self? 26 For whoever will be ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed, when he comes in his glory, and the glory of the Father, and of the holy angels.

Blessings
The sin of that first couple brought death into the world. So with few exceptions we all die.

However, our sin also affects our lives and future to include eternity unless we repent and are forgiven.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

setst777

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
2,202
599
66
Greenfield
Visit site
✟349,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So let's be clear here, if Adam had not disobeyed God, would his earthly body die as well?

Is there scripture that states that?

If Adam had not sinned, he would continue to live in Paradise on earth - the Garden of Eden - eating of the tree of life.

Since Adam sinned, the Paradise was taken away. The Tree of Life is no longer with us. From now on, the bodies of all people will die. God has planned from the beginning that only those who walked by faith in God would be saved, eating from the Tree of Life.

Revelation 2 (WEB) 7 To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of my God.

This world, and all the sins of mankind, and the temptations we experience in the flesh, and the demonic forces that try to prevent us from remaining faithful are all a test of our faithfulness, and a refining of the faith.

If we pass the test, than we are counted worthy of eternal life. We will eat from the Tree of Life in the Kingdom of God.

Revelation 3:11 (WEB)
11 I am coming quickly! Hold firmly to what you have, so that no one takes your crown.

James 1:13-16 (NIV)
12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

Revelation 3:4-5 (WEB)
4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Luke 21:34-36 (WEB)
34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 (WEB) 11 To this end we also pray always for you, that our God may count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire of goodness and work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:10-12 (WEB) 10 Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure; for if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Matthew 10:38-39 (WEB)
38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me isn’t worthy of me. 39 He who seeks his life will lose it; and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.

Blessings
 
Upvote 0