How Could God allow this?

[Guojing]

So does this mean you reject or accept as binding on you the words of James, Hebrews and the command to love God and how do you decide?
Lets stick to the words of James and Hebrews as those books you say do not apply to you but just the jewish believers.
Then what can we learn since (your position is) God intends none of what they write to us but just the jews?

So when that occurs the words of James will apply only to the few jewish believers? At that time alone will faith be seen to be connected with works (choices?)

How does that work since who is from what tribe is lost? Many who think they are jewish have no blood line at all to Abraham.

G, I’m taking your position on a large matter, faith requires no outward action to be real (works) and applying it to more of life. I do this to myself for positions I take as well and have for years.

When I have an idea or theory, I test it by applying other conditions. I work in science and that’s what we do. Z thinks I’m twisting his words, but I’m testing them as any good Berean ought to do. “If this is true then....”. This is also how I’ve come to understand a fair bit about the Bible and God. The truth will stand the test, untruth falls apart.

During the Tribulation, the anti-christ will appear and those who take the mark of the beast will be condemned no matter what they believe about Jesus, Rev 14:9-12.

Thus, James advice in his chapter 2 will make perfect sense, there is no point saying you have faith but you still take the mark of the beast.

However, those who reject the mark of the beast will be completely cut off from the economic system, meaning you will be poor economically. James chapter 5 will be perfect advice for such people who worry about riches and thus want to take the mark

Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

These are just 2 examples I can think of why the Holy Spirit placed the book of James after Paul's letters to the body of Christ, Romans-Philemon. James was meant for the doctrine for Jews during the Tribulation.

 

[mama2one]

"How could God allow this to happen?" said @ZNP


how could he not?
species have been disappearing, ocean & animal's are filled with plastic, skies filled with smog, China has a huge increase in children born with disabilities cause of that pollution, polar bear's ice is melting, etc

we needed a time out to save the planet

 

[Dorothy Mae]

During the Tribulation, the anti-christ will appear and those who take the mark of the beast will be condemned no matter what they believe about Jesus, Rev 14:9-12.

Just for clarity, antichrist isn’t mentioned in Revelation. John actually said there are many antichrists in the world at that time.

Thus, James advice in his chapter 2 will make perfect sense, there is no point saying you have faith but you still take the mark of the beast.

You said what James wrote applies only to Jews. Are you changing your position? Now it applies to all, non jews too, who take the mark of the beast. Is that fair since Jews and non-christians don’t read James?

Is that the only work that James meant? Why did he refer to meeting physical needs and not the mark of the beast?

However, those who reject the mark of the beast will be completely cut off from the economic system, meaning you will be poor economically. James chapter 5 will be perfect advice for such people who worry about riches and thus want to take the mark

But James tells them that works includes meeting the physical needs of others. If you say those who have faith are the poor then, they can’t meet anyone’s needs. Just the condemned (mark takers) can do that. Makes no sense.

Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

These are just 2 examples I can think of why the Holy Spirit placed the book of James after Paul's letters to the body of Christ, Romans-Philemon. James was meant for the doctrine for Jews during the Tribulation.

But the Jews don’t read the NT.
They’ll never get that message.

Your position has a number of holes.

Why did Jesus constantly talk
about being judged (believers) for what we did if faith requires no deeds?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

G

You want to focus on my position to be fair?

 

[mama2one]

continued....From post #423

below from an article "from India to Venice ...."

"Amid the unprecedented coronavirus global lockdown, scenes worthy of a Disney film have emerged; from swans gliding through the now-clear canals of Venice to blue skies over China where the air is usually choked with smog."

 

[Guojing]

Just for clarity, antichrist isn’t mentioned in Revelation. John actually said there are many antichrists in the world at that time.
You said what James wrote applies only to Jews. Are you changing your position? Now it applies to all, non jews too, who take the mark of the beast. Is that fair since Jews and non-christians don’t read James?

Is that the only work that James meant? Why did he refer to meeting physical needs and not the mark of the beast?
But James tells them that works includes meeting the physical needs of others. If you say those who have faith are the poor then, they can’t meet anyone’s needs. Just the condemned (mark takers) can do that. Makes no sense.

But the Jews don’t read the NT.
They’ll never get that message.

Your position has a number of holes.

Why did Jesus constantly talk
about being judged (believers) for what we did if faith requires no deeds?

Jesus was only sent to the Jews during his earthly ministry, and he was preaching the same gospel of the kingdom to the Jews, which required faith AND works.

Before the Tribulation, the rapture of the Body of Christ will happen.

When that happen, many of the unbelieving Israel will realized that what Paul was telling all of us was actually correct. I believe many of them will finally open their eyes to the NT, but of course, you are free to disagree.

 

[Jaxxi]

The Corona virus is similar to the SARS virus seen some years ago.

Funny thing is that virus has a US patent number. It is similar but not the same. A house cat is similar to a bobcat but they are not the same.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Funny thing is that virus has a US patent number. It is similar but not the same. A house cat is similar to a bobcat but they are not the same.

Cats are complex life forms. Virus are not even really life forms and can mutate easily. It’s not an accurate comparison.

 

[ZNP]

"How could God allow this to happen?" said @ZNP


how could he not?
species have been disappearing, ocean & animal's are filled with plastic, skies filled with smog, China has a huge increase in children born with disabilities cause of that pollution, polar bear's ice is melting, etc

we needed a time out to save the planet

Yes, it is true. But prior to the restoration of all things God will need to deal with a few things, particularly those that have been killed for the word and for their testimony. For 2,000 years, ever since this unrighteousness was on full display with Jesus death we have been praying "How long Lord will you not deal with these corrupt murderers?" We have seen evil government rulers like Caesar Nero who burned down part of Rome so that he could buy it back at a fire sale price. After the day of the Lord's wrath has come, then we can get started on the restoration of all things.

This post finally brings us to motive. If God is the one who is operating all things, and I believe He is, then this pandemic is from His hand. Why? Because before you can plunder the strong man's house, which is His intention, you have to first bind the strong man. Too many people are fixated on the number of people dying from this virus and are missing the much bigger picture, the Lord is binding the strong man.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, it is true. But prior to the restoration of all things God will need to deal with a few things, particularly those that have been killed for the word and for their testimony. For 2,000 years, ever since this unrighteousness was on full display with Jesus death we have been praying "How long Lord will you not deal with these corrupt murderers?" We have seen evil government rulers like Caesar Nero who burned down part of Rome so that he could buy it back at a fire sale price. After the day of the Lord's wrath has come, then we can get started on the restoration of all things.

This post finally brings us to motive. If God is the one who is operating all things, and I believe He is, then this pandemic is from His hand. Why? Because before you can plunder the strong man's house, which is His intention, you have to first bind the strong man. Too many people are fixated on the number of people dying from this virus and are missing the much bigger picture, the Lord is binding the strong man.

After it’s all over life will be the same. I see no indication God’s hand is in this.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus was only sent to the Jews during his earthly ministry, and he was preaching the same gospel of the kingdom to the Jews, which required faith AND works.

Before the Tribulation, the rapture of the Body of Christ will happen.

When that happen, many of the unbelieving Israel will realized that what Paul was telling all of us was actually correct. I believe many of them will finally open their eyes to the NT, but of course, you are free to disagree.

Was Abraham the father of the Jews? Was he declared righteous by God based on his faith or his works?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

G,

I believe a very different eschatology. I think pieces of the Dispensational theology full of holes.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus was only sent to the Jews during his earthly ministry, and he was preaching the same gospel of the kingdom to the Jews, which required faith AND works.

Do you also discredit most of Jesus’ preaching? I’m sorry but it sounds like it.

Before the Tribulation, the rapture of the Body of Christ will happen.

I don’t believe a rapture will happen. The whole thing sounds a lot like what the Pharisees taught the Messiahs reign will be like.

Resurrection? Yes. Rapture? No.

When that happen, many of the unbelieving Israel will realized that what Paul was telling all of us was actually correct. I believe many of them will finally open their eyes to the NT, but of course, you are free to disagree.

If they didn’t believe, many of them, Jesus was right when he walked the earth, theyre not going to believe Paul was right no matter what happens.

So you see, we disagree.

 

[Guojing]

Do you also discredit most of Jesus’ preaching? I’m sorry but it sounds like it.
I don’t believe a rapture will happen. The whole thing sounds a lot like what the Pharisees taught the Messiahs reign will be like.

Resurrection? Yes. Rapture? No.
If they didn’t believe, many of them, Jesus was right when he walked the earth, theyre not going to believe Paul was right no matter what happens.

So you see, we disagree.

We can agree to disagree, no problem. Cheers

 

[Guojing]

Was Abraham the father of the Jews? Was he declared righteous by God based on his faith or his works?

Most of us only know how to quote Genesis 15:6, but we often forgot about Genesis 17

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Abraham was declared righteous by God before circumcision, that is true. But his righteousness had conditions for him to keep as well. If he doesn't keep them, he will be cut off from God.

Our righteousness from Jesus is different, its faith apart from works of any kind.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Most of us only know how to quote Genesis 15:6, but we often forgot about Genesis 17

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Abraham was declared righteous by God before circumcision, that is true. But his righteousness had conditions for him to keep as well. If he doesn't keep them, he will be cut off from God.

Our righteousness from Jesus is different, its faith apart from works of any kind.

Paul disagrees sharply with you.

We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited as righteousness. 10In what context was it credited? Was it after his circumcision, or before? It was not after, but before.

Abraham was declared righteous BEFORE so you are wrong. The jews understood righteousness by faith.

If you have a friend who trusts you, has faith in you, do you expect them to make different choices (deeds) than the man who distrusts you or has no opinion on your trustworthiness?

 

[Guojing]

Paul disagrees sharply with you.

We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited as righteousness. 10In what context was it credited? Was it after his circumcision, or before? It was not after, but before.

Abraham was declared righteous BEFORE so you are wrong. The jews understood righteousness by faith.

If you have a friend who trusts you, has faith in you, do you expect them to make different choices (deeds) than the man who distrusts you or has no opinion on your trustworthiness?

I already stated that I too believe that Abraham was declared righteous before circumcision. But are you saying that Genesis 17 is not a work he must do in order not to be cut off from God?

What work do we have to do now for that same purpose? None whatsoever.