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Featured How Could God allow this?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by ZNP, Apr 11, 2020.

  1. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Please read the Opening Post, Post #6, Post #14 and Post #20
     
  2. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    1. Some read the title of the thread, nothing more and then rebuke me. Telling me I am wrong. I did not ask this question and that is made clear in the opening Post.

    see my posts #6, #14 and #20.

    2. Some say it is impossible for God to be responsible for the evil, He didn’t create it.

    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

    Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.


    3. Some argue that just because evil takes place doesn’t mean God gave his approval.

    Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

    Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

    Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

    Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Lamentations 3:37

    14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

    15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

    16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. Exodus 9:14-16


    6 And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall die of a great pestilence. Jeremiah 21:6

    13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;

    14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2Chronicles

    Malachi 2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith Jehovah of hosts, then will I send the curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings; yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.


    4. Yes, God made a righteous man to be sin

    21 Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

    5. One effect of this pandemic is a collapse in global trade, the stock market and widespread unemployment.

    Isaiah 23:8 Who hath purposed this against Tyre, the bestower of crowns, whose merchants are princes, whose traffickers are the honorable of the earth? 9 Jehovah of hosts hath purposed it, to stain the pride of all glory, to bring into contempt all the honorable of the earth.
     
  3. Jay Sea

    Jay Sea ................ Ke ĉiuj vivu

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    We have been given this world to care for and to inhabit and to create in the way befitting being in "God's Kingdom NOW" We have been made by God to learn so that we can care for this earth and all it's creatures as suits God's purpose. It is we who are responsible to understand nature and the trials that we face here on earth and to mitigate them for the sake of all. There are no races or nations in the Kingdom of God. We are one every human being on this sorry planet. The virus came and spread because of poverty and poor hygiene in a market, not uncommon in some other countries and spread by greed that depleted health systems. Many more will die after the pandemic from poverty through the greed of opportunists and entrepreneurs and bankers and investors who will see only the money. I a fail to see why since there is enough resources in the world we cannot all come through this and make sure that we then fight the poverty. Everyone has a right to FREE HEALTH CARE, FREE EDUCATION EVEN TO UNIVERSITY, TO A HOME, TO A BASIC INCOME, TO RESPECT. To be a christian is to be in this world but not of it!!! I am a world citizen. Tough I was born in Scotland from Irish family and now live in Australia as a citizen. So I have special leave to hold each of these to account and that means to cry faul if they try to cheat another country.

    in love
    Jay
     
  4. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Read the OP. But give me a few verses that say he is responsible for all evil that happens, for starters. All, mind you, not some unpleasant events and he says he is RESPONSIBLE.
     
  5. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Your question is that if the Chinese do not ask God concerning their behavior then God is not responsible for it.
    It is offensive to me. I lived in China and many are Christians, believers, and godly people. Second, this pandemic has spread over the entire globe and effects many, many people and countries who do ask God. According to our dollars "in God we trust". We are making God accountable for our cash. 3rd then who is responsible. Are you? Of course not. Eventually everyone can find someone else who is responsible. It isn't our fault it is the Chinese. It isn't their fault it is only those in Wuhan. It isn't their fault, only those who go to wet markets. It isn't there fault, only those who sell bats at wet markets. It isn't their fault, their families have been doing this for hundreds of years, it is due to nature, or due to 1 billion people living together, or it is due to the new economy that involves airplanes flying from one country to another in a few hours. Can't blame the Chinese for the airplane, can't blame them for the world economy.

    Jesus is Lord of All. The buck stops with Him.
     
  6. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Read post #208
     
  7. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. We are destined to be kings, to rule over this Earth and to be involved in the restoration of all things. It is nice to see someone take responsibility as a future king and not just blaming sinners, satan, and everyone else.
     
  8. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but first he had to ask God for permission and God placed some restrictions on what he could and couldn't do.
     
  9. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    The word evil means calamity. He claims no responsibility for the Devils’ action and the fact that he punish evil actions of men shows he doesn’t blame himself for that either.
    ???
    Job didn’t suffer from moral evil but misfortune. And he was wrong. God didn’t do it, read behind the scene.

    Correct
    God did not touch him.
    Doesn’t say he sends everything!
    Doesn’t say ALL plagues are from him.
    You don’t know the events i’m Egypt were unique and had a unique outcome?? That wasn’t SOP for God.
    Notice this is only for his people, not the world.

    Again, not said to the world.
    No, never. God cannot tempt a man to do evil.
    ???
    Huh?? That wasn’t said to the world, just one city and it’s history.

    If a man wants to understand God, he must believe God is good (because he is) and calling God the author of evil will prevent that man from receiving insight from God as to His ways. I know why too.

    You can call God “evil” today but there will be no walking with him in that case.
     
  10. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Job was still wrong. And the book isn't a explanation of how God works. God never really explains other than saying Job can't understand what all he does.
    What Job did right was that he didn't take his wife's advice, and he kept talking to God even though he didn't understand what was happening at all.
     
  11. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Since you are sure God does moral evil, i’m glad you’re not in charge seeing that you think the one in charge can do moral evil.
     
  12. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Agreed

    Agreed, but not a persuasive explanation to anyone with this question.

    Agreed.
    Obviously you did not read posts #6, #14 and #20. Probably not even the opening post. Simply the title. Difficult to have an intelligent conversation with someone who will only read 5 words.
     
  13. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    If a man is so right and good in God’s eyes, special attention from another quarter might occur. But the man has to be of a high righteous caliber it seems.
     
  14. ZNP

    ZNP Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Besides the 5 words of the title did you read anything else? Did you read the opening post? Did you read Post #6, #14 and #20.

    In the opening post I said "Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?"
    All of which I agreed to. However, I also agree that God is omnipotent, omniscient and the creator of all. I agree that Jesus is Lord of all. I don't deny his responsibility or that He is accountable for His creation, his creatures, and His people whether sheep or goats. But in posts #6, 14 and 20 I reconcile these two using the Bible.
     
  15. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Only in the feminine form of the word. In the masculine form it does mean evil.

    H7451
    ra? ra^a^h
    rah, raw-aw'
    From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

    Essentially the word means literal evil when it's in the masculine form, or can mean "turmoil or calamity" if it's in the feminine form. In the masculine form it can mean natural evil or moral evil. God is fully moral so the evil God creates is not morally evil but is known as "natural evil" which means something bad mainly from the perspective of those receiving the evil from God. Example: When God rained fire from heaven on Sodom, the people would consider that receiving evil from God because burning to death is painful. They deserved this fate so it was not morally evil to kill them in this sense.
     
  16. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    I’m not talking to anyone else in this post, just you who accuse God of moral evil.
    I read both and found the fallacy in the opening post not falling into that fallacy myself. I suspect you fell in and don’t see it.
     
  17. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    It wasn’t moral evil and that’s the point. A judge needs to enact judgement to be good.
     
  18. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Still God did not do any evil/calamity himself.
     
  19. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    I read #6 and it was useless. His thoughts are just and true and he wants moral good for us. Otherwise the description of his thoughts is too superficial above. Sounds like an old grandpa who just wants us happy.

    And he is NOT at all accountable for his creation or his creatures. Where do you see him blaming himself for what creatures do? Men don’t want to be his and so aren’t his creation. They are their own creation for which he takes no responsibility at all.
     
  20. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Freewill allows God's creatures who have been created with it to choose to alienate themselves from God. It is they who cause evil. Suffering (which includes pain and death) is the road by which some of those who are alienated return to being with God. Suffering is therefor not the greatest evil: alienation from God is the greatest evil, because there is no greater good than when we are with God.
     
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