How can we be sure??

[Jaxxi]

I don't think any of us would deny Satan's evil power, but how, exactly, do you suspect that he can or does sabotage and invalidate a sacrament (such as Baptism)?

And I don't know- that's why I wanted to address it because of it's importance to our faith. I mean I know it is on earth but when someone writes up their last will and testament, if certain things are not done properly, it is thrown out null and void. Or if a marriage ceremony is not done properly it can be considered invalid. My purpose is not for anyone to doubt their baptism, but with something so sacred, shouldn't we double check to make sure it was done properly as intended in a worthy church and not some prosperity "sew the seed for gain " church?

 

[BobRyan]

Okay, it’s good you like doing that. Glad you are able to help in getting the word out there friend. It is know that for the most part everyone does have their own viewpoint of how they look at scripture. It’s why I shared Matthew 3:14? Because it’s my view of looking at John and what he said to Jesus.

He said to Jesus I need to baptized by you.

And I agree with that. John was a sinner, someone with a sinful nature - and Jesus was not.

The Father sends the Holy Spirit through faith on the Lord Jesus Christ in which a person receives the holy spirit in which is Christ dwelling in them.

Agreed. But the Holy Spirit leads that person to walk in harmony with the Word of God - where the first step after that born-again experience is water baptism a public confession of our faith in Christ.

If we take a look at (Galatians 2:20) we can see that the spirit of Christ dwells in us by faith. I see the Holy Spirit of God and the spirit of Christ all in the same way.

me too.

 

[GallagherM]

From what scripture says Jaxxi. People are lead away by their own desires

Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and drag us away.

Many people like to put the blame on Satan when scripture right here clearly defines where temptation comes from; it comes from our own heart and our own desires which enchant or entice us dragging us away from holding on to God.

Some people can lead away from God by their own desires or they have faith but they continue to go and be dragged off when temptation comes.

What does the Bible says about when temptation comes?

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

 

[GallagherM]

@BobRyan it is why when a person gets to Romans 8 there is a whole bunch of ifs. If we walk by the spirit; if we walk by the spirit is a condition that done on and by our free will choice.

If you walk by the spirit you will allow Christ to produce love from with-in you. To have peace, kindness, mercy, forgiveness and it all comes from within the heart.

The heart is the thing just like previous post; it’s our heart that becomes tempted and we are enticed by our own desires that are in our heart.

It’s always a question of where is my heart residing.

 

[Albion]

And I don't know- that's why I wanted to address it because of it's importance to our faith. I mean I know it is on earth but when someone writes up their last will and testament, if certain things are not done properly, it is thrown out null and void. Or if a marriage ceremony is not done properly it can be considered invalid. My purpose is not for anyone to doubt their baptism, but with something so sacred, shouldn't we double check to make sure it was done properly as intended in a worthy church and not some prosperity "sew the seed for gain " church?

So...when you ask about Satan getting involved, it's in relation to phony or deviant churches that the ordinary person would not realize are defective.

If that's it, the answer is that the intentions of the baptizer are not considered to "trump" God's sacrament if it's otherwise performed properly -- not any more than a backsliding, insincere pastor who administers the baptism would invalidate the baptism of a truly serious individual who is repentant and coming to the Lord.

A similar explanation would apply if the question were asked about the Lord's Supper.

 

[BobRyan]

@BobRyan it is why when a person gets to Romans 8 there is a whole bunch of ifs. If we walk by the spirit; if we walk by the spirit is a condition that done on and by our free will choice.

If you walk by the spirit you will allow Christ to produce love from with-in you. To have peace, kindness, mercy, forgiveness and it all comes from within the heart.

The heart is the thing just like previous post; it’s our heart that becomes tempted and we are enticed by our own desires that are in our heart.

It’s always a question of where is my heart residing.

Agreed.

 

[BobRyan]

So...when you ask about Satan getting involved, it's in relation to phony or deviant churches that the ordinary person would not realize are defective.

If that's it, the answer is that the intentions of the baptizer are not considered to "trump" God's sacrament if it's otherwise performed properly -- not any more than a backsliding, insincere pastor who administers the baptism would invalidate the baptism of a truly serious individual who is repentant and coming to the Lord.

A similar explanation would apply if the question were asked about the Lord's Supper.

As I noted before - once the entire emphasis on the powers/mystic-ability of the one baptizing is removed - and all you have is "the appeal to God for a clean conscience" 1 Peter 3 by the believer being baptized and the power of Christ's resurrection, then all reference to the spiritual perfection or holiness of the man baptizing someone is removed from the entire equation.

Which means the assumption in the OP is that the one baptizing is the one with "the power" or "the ability" and if they are flawed then the baptism "did not take" so-to-speak because the one baptizing was in some way flawed either in his beliefs or practices.

But if you place all the weight on the "appeal to God for a clean conscience" by the one being baptized and zero weight on the one baptizing them -- then - exactly who is it that is a getting baptized? A born again believer? Yes.

 

[Albion]

As I noted before - once the entire emphasis on the powers/mystic-ability of the one baptizing is removed - and all you have is "the appeal to God for a clean conscience" 1 Peter 3 by the believer being baptized and the power of Christ's resurrection, then all reference to the spiritual perfection or holiness of the man baptizing someone is removed from the entire equation.

Yes, that's an interesting theory. In my replies on this thread, though, I tried to be mindful of the fact that this thread started with a question that was asked of us readers, so I thought that trying to answer as accurately as possible, and with her particular concern in mind, was what I should do.

 

[Rescued One]

Satan has power to influence Christians! We see him enter Peter to which Christ says " get behind me satan!" And he enters Judas Iscariot causing him to betray Jesus, then kill himself. Satan is as a lion seeking whom he can devour. Lions are not picky- they will devour anyone. I am not giving him more credit than he has. He is not omnipresent or all- knowing but we must make no mistake that the most Godly people are at the top of his list since he is devoted to making sure no mere human is found worthy of inheriting what he feels is rightfully his.

A Christian has more power than Satan. We have our Shepherd, we have the Holy Spirit, God won't let Satan triumph over us. I don't care about Satan's desires to steal sheep.

A person who belongs to Christ follows Christ not Satan.

• Psalms 37:28: For the LORD loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.
• Psalms 55:22: Cast your burden on the LORD, and he will sustain you; he will never permit the righteous to be moved.
• Psalms 125:1-2: They that trust in the Lord shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever. As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the Lord is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.

• Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Does a Christian give himself faith, or is it a gift from God? Does God snatch it back?

John 10
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

(Jesus is NOT a hireling!)

22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place in Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple courts in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 So the Jews gathered around Him and demanded, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 “I already told you,” Jesus replied, “but you did not believe. The works I do in My Father’s name testify on My behalf. 26 But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand..."

Can Satan like a roaring lion devour the sheep? Is Satan greater than God?

Jaxxi said:

In the end he wants all to be found unworthy of salvation, dirty and sinful so that God is disgusted at the mere sight of us.

God is not disgusted at the sight of His sheep! Christians are His sheep. By their fruits ye shall know them. God tells us how to recognize a Christian.

Jaxxi says:

In America what do we value most? Freedom from who you must ask because we have taken everything God despises and made it our lifestyle- greed, lying, idolatry, gluttony, envy, pride, lust, pornography, indecency, vanity, fashion, gossip, divorce, profanity, violence and murder, sports and games- ANYTHING that can be considered something we would rather be doing than spending time with Him, and we could be exchanging our " freedom" in this life to be enslaved in chains after selling the very soul of America without even realizing it.

Why do you think all Americans are following Satan? Satan's followers are not Christians.

 

[lsume]

How can we be sure that we were baptized correctly and what if we weren't? What if we were baptized by a church that has fallen short of the glory of God, by a doubting Pastor, or if something was compromised unknowingly by Satan? I am asking because in this day and age I cannot see Satan just allowing perfect and holy baptisms to take place without trying to interfere somehow. I am to the point now that here at the last stretch I think satan has his hand in everything we do and use- I put nothing past him. But something as important as baptism- they say you only need to be baptized once- but it is being done by man so what if it is done wrong?

The baptism that counts is the one that God does. When you experience that baptism, the water baptism is readily understood. When the dove was seen coming to Christ at his water baptism, He was baptized in The Holy Spirit. This should make sense to you considering your post. If a man could get you to heaven by putting water on you, that would not make sense right?

 

[Albion]

The baptism that counts is the one that God does. When you experience that baptism, the water baptism is readily understood. When the dove was seen coming to Christ at his water baptism, He was baptized in The Holy Spirit.

Christ, who is God, ordained and commanded sacramental Baptism.

The dove that appeared on the occasion of Christ's baptism in the River Jordan is representative of the third person of the Trinity. It is not to be confused with Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Christ would not have a need of being baptized with the Holy Spirit anyway.

This should make sense to you considering your post. If a man could get you to heaven by putting water on you, that would not make sense right?

Thinking that sacramental Baptism is a guarantee of salvation is a mistake commonly made by people who are affiliated with churches that see Baptism as merely a gesture on the part of the recipient. I can't think of any church that does teach that if you're baptized, you're "home free."

 

[lsume]

Christ, who is God, ordained and commanded sacramental Baptism.

The dove that appeared on the occasion of Christ's baptism in the River Jordan is representative of the third person of the Trinity. It is not to be confused with Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Christ would not have a need of being baptized with the Holy Spirit anyway.


Thinking that sacramental Baptism is a guarantee of salvation is a mistake commonly made by people who are affiliated with churches that see Baptism as merely a gesture on the part of the recipient. I can't think of any church that does teach that if you're baptized, you're "home free."

When you are born again, you will absolutely know it. What you describe sounds like man’s dogma. Christ will appear a second time to those who look for him.
Heb.9

1. [28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation

 

[Albion]

When you are born again, you will absolutely know it. What you describe sounds like man’s dogma.

It's not. Consider Christ's "Great Commission." Towards the end of the Gospel of Matthew, we read of Christ sending his Apostles out, instructing them to go to all nations, make believers of them, and to baptize the converts.

This shows us that these Apostles were to administer the sacrament of Baptism, not that it's something that is purely mystical and needs no earthly elements or a human to do the baptizing.

 

[lsume]

It's not. Consider Christ's "Great Commission." Towards the end of the Gospel of Matthew, we read of Christ sending his Apostles out, instructing them to go to all nations, make believers of them, and to baptize the converts.

This shows us that these Apostles were to administer the sacrament of Baptism, not that it's something that is purely mystical and needs no earthly elements or a human to do the baptizing.

Consider Peter. Christ told him he would deny Christ 3 times before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowed. However, Christ instructed Peter that when he was converted, to strengthen his brethren. Peter had not yet been converted when he denied Christ.

 

[Albion]

Consider Peter. Christ told him he would deny Christ 3 times before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowed. However, Christ instructed Peter that when he was converted, to strengthen his brethren. Peter had not yet been converted when he denied Christ.

What does this have to do with the administration of the sacrament of Baptism?

 

[Bobber]

How can we be sure that we were baptized correctly and what if we weren't?

Many try to get deep into understanding what is it? Full immersion, sprinkling, pour just a little water over the head. Made me smile when I read when a film company was making a Jesus movie the opted to not do a full immersion....they'd offend the sprinkle people.....they didn't do sprinkling so as not to offend the F immersion advocates....so they took the middle ground and poured a little water on the head.

I think if we just forget all the technical debates and just ask ourselves what is it to represent. My understanding....our old man sinful nature is buried so down into the water....raised again to life you're raised up out of the water. Perfect symbolism that I don't think sprinkling can really be the best comparison for...neither the pouring of water on the head.

 

[lsume]

What does this have to do with the administration of the sacrament of Baptism?

Everything

 

[Rescued One]

I was baptized into a cult. My mother, one sister and one brother followed suit (he was only eight). When God opened my eyes, I hated the darkness and the Father brought me to Christ. I requested baptism in a Christian church. My older sister never saw the light. But then neither did my mother; she had no faith in Christ and didn't allow my younger siblings to learn about Christ. She didn't believe in Him.

Many people believe in baptismal regeneration. Others of us believe that the Holy Ghost regenerates a person prior to baptism.

 

[BobRyan]

When you are born again, you will absolutely know it. What you describe sounds like man’s dogma. Christ will appear a second time to those who look for him.
Heb.9

1. [28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation

Being born again comes before baptism

 

[BobRyan]

Consider Peter. Christ told him he would deny Christ 3 times before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowed. However, Christ instructed Peter that when he was converted, to strengthen his brethren. Peter had not yet been converted when he denied Christ.

1. Peter was not baptized after that. He was only baptized by John the baptizer
2. Peter asked to have his entire body baptized at the last Supper - and Jesus said Peter had no need of it.
3. Peter had been filled with the holy Spirit in Matt 10 and went out preaching the Gospel, healing the sick, raising the dead and casting out demons.