How can we be sure??

[Albion]

The baptism in the river done to Jesus by John; was a showing of a cleansing before sacrificing.

Yes, that was the point of all the baptisms done by John and other Hebrew preachers prior to the coming of the Messiah--a gesture symbolizing the individual's commitment to a new life.

The baptism of Jesus Christ is what most Christians will or at least should be looking for; you can most certainly be baptized by someone in water for a signal for outside expression of your decision to sacrifice your own life towards Loving God and Loving Others, maintaining your life, be creative and enjoy life and when you come home take rest some and enjoy your time home.

Well, that would seem to describe the kind of baptism that John engaged in and which is described in the New Testament as having been a prelude to Christian baptism.

Christian baptism is not just a gesture or an obligation that we fulfill in order to testify to our repentance and belief in Christ. It marks the recipient as a member of Christ's church, forgives sin or reassures the person of the forgiveness of his sins, conveys Grace, and imparts the Holy Ghost.

 

[GallagherM]

Being baptized by three different people in my life for no reason other than thought it was something that was a requirement which has simply been a tradition of man for many years since the death of Christ and resurrection of Christ by (Yahwah), if you do not believe that your sins have been forgiven by and through faith in Christ;

Why would baptism give a difference sense of feeling by doing it? So would be my question, @Albion. A believer knows that their sins have been forgiven by the blood shed of Christ Jesus. Do you need to get baptized every time when you do commit sin be it towards God, and or towards your neighbor? Or do you run to the Father in prayer and ask Him to help to overcome the sin that might have befallen you and to have a change of mind (Repentance)?

That is why I am stressing the fact of the spiritual baptism of Jesus Christ which is the circumcision of our hearts, and it has nothing to do with the outside appearance.

Notice again in Matthew 3:14 "But John tried to prevent Him, saying, 'I (John) have the need to be baptized by You (Jesus), and yet You (Jesus) are coming to me?'

I do not hold on to the traditions of man of the need of someone to baptize you personally but some do that is why it was mentioned if that is something you believe you would like to do that is fine you can do that, but being baptized three times before like was mentioned I had no change of heart, it was just an outward thing done that was a tradition.

 

[Albion]

Why would baptism give a difference sense of feeling by doing it? So would be my question, @Albion.

I'm afraid that I may not be getting what you mean when you say "give a difference sense of feeling." Baptism is not intended to give the recipient a new feeling, although we certainly understand that we all can be excited or reassured, etc. whenever any big event or accomplishment happens in life.

A believer knows that their sins have been forgiven by the blood shed of Christ Jesus. Do you need to get baptized every time when you do commit sin be it towards God, and or towards your neighbor?

Certainly not. I thought I was very emphatic about that. What's more it's considered to be impossible ; baptism is seen to be a once-for-always event, something that is indelible. If a baptized person goes bad and disavows the faith, leaves the church, and so on, there are ways to start again...but being baptized once more isn't part of it.

Or do you run to the Father in prayer and ask Him to help to overcome the sin that might have befallen you and to have a change of mind (Repentance).

Yes. God is always welcoming to the lost sheep that comes back to the flock. Depending on which church a person belongs to, there are more specific means in addition to your personal act of turning to God with contrition and a commitment to repair your life. Confession of sins as a separate sacrament or as part of the worship service, Confirmation, and some others. But a "re-baptism" shouldn't be done.

That is why I am stressing the fact of the spiritual baptism of Jesus Christ which is the circumcision of our hearts, and it has nothing to do with the outside appearance.

Well, I don't see why we have to choose between the two. The institutional church exists for many reasons and shepherding the believer through life is part of it. Of course, what's in our heart is absolutely a necessary part of it as well.

I do not hold on to the traditions of man of the need of someone to baptize you personally but some do that is why it was mentioned if that is something you believe you would like to do that is fine you can do that, but being baptized three times before like was mentioned I had no change of heart, it was just an outward thing done that was a tradition.

Being baptized every time you renewed your commitment to God or returned to the church after falling away may be called a "tradition of men" in those particular churches which do that (and they are a minority), BUT the sacrament of Baptism itself, properly understood and observed, was instituted by Christ himself, he commanded his followers to convert all nations and baptize them, and all of this is Scriptural.

It is not, in other words, a mere "tradition of men." Yes, there are some observances and rituals that could be called traditions of the church, but Baptism is one of the few practices that even the first Christians knew was instituted by the Lord and was to be done as part of converting newcomers to the faith.

 

[GallagherM]

Thank you for the dialogue and your viewpoints, and may you enjoy the rest of your day sir.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How can we be sure that we were baptized correctly and what if we weren't? What if we were baptized by a church that has fallen short of the glory of God, by a doubting Pastor, or if something was compromised unknowingly by Satan? I am asking because in this day and age I cannot see Satan just allowing perfect and holy baptisms to take place without trying to interfere somehow. I am to the point now that here at the last stretch I think satan has his hand in everything we do and use- I put nothing past him. But something as important as baptism- they say you only need to be baptized once- but it is being done by man so what if it is done wrong?

John the Baptist baptized with water for repentance, Jesus Christ of Nazareth baptized with the Holy Spirit, for salvation. Trust in Him. Be blessed.

 

[Jaxxi]

Are you saying that Satan doesn't have power to influence non-Christians anymore?

​

Satan has power to influence Christians! We see him enter Peter to which Christ says " get behind me satan!" And he enters Judas Iscariot causing him to betray Jesus, then kill himself. Satan is as a lion seeking whom he can devour. Lions are not picky- they will devour anyone. I am not giving him more credit than he has. He is not omnipresent or all- knowing but we must make no mistake that the most Godly people are at the top of his list since he is devoted to making sure no mere human is found worthy of inheriting what he feels is rightfully his. In the end he wants all to be found unworthy of salvation, dirty and sinful so that God is disgusted at the mere sight of us. In America what do we value most? Freedom from who you must ask because we have taken everything God despises and made it our lifestyle- greed, lying, idolatry, gluttony, envy, pride, lust, pornography, indecency, vanity, fashion, gossip, divorce, profanity, violence and murder, sports and games- ANYTHING that can be considered something we would rather be doing than spending time with Him, and we could be exchanging our " freedom" in this life to be enslaved in chains after selling the very soul of America without even realizing it.

 

[BobRyan]

How can we be sure that we were baptized correctly and what if we weren't? What if we were baptized by a church that has fallen short of the glory of God, by a doubting Pastor, or if something was compromised unknowingly by Satan? I am asking because in this day and age I cannot see Satan just allowing perfect and holy baptisms to take place without trying to interfere somehow. I am to the point now that here at the last stretch I think satan has his hand in everything we do and use- I put nothing past him. But something as important as baptism- they say you only need to be baptized once- but it is being done by man so what if it is done wrong?

What is "Baptism" according to the Bible? It looks like it is baptism of believers immersed in water where the baptism is an outward sign/symbol of a decision the believer has already made to follow Christ.

Rom 6 "buried with Him in baptism" - full water immersion baptism.

Mark 1:10 "Mark 1:10 As soon as Jesus came up out of the water, He saw the heavens breaking open and the Spirit descending on Him like a dove." - full water immersion baptism.

1 Pet 3
18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which He also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20 who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

The "appeal to God for a clean conscience" by the one being baptized -
And the fact of the resurrection of Jesus is what matters in baptism - not sacramental waters or powers of some human.


In that case -- it would not matter one wit if the pastor that baptized you had some special power or special blessing or not.

 

[Albion]

Satan has power to influence Christians! We see him enter Peter to which Christ says " get behind me satan!" And he enters Judas Iscariot causing him to betray Jesus, then kill himself. Satan is as a lion seeking whom he can devour. Lions are not picky- they will devour anyone. I am not giving him more credit than he has. He is not omnipresent or all- knowing but we must make no mistake that the most Godly people are at the top of his list since he is devoted to making sure no mere human is found worthy of inheriting what he feels is rightfully his. In the end he wants all to be found unworthy of salvation, dirty and sinful so that God is disgusted at the mere sight of us. In America what do we value most? Freedom from who you must ask because we have taken everything God despises and made it our lifestyle- greed, lying, idolatry, gluttony, envy, pride, lust, pornography, indecency, vanity, fashion, gossip, divorce, profanity, violence and murder, sports and games- ANYTHING that can be considered something we would rather be doing than spending time with Him, and we could be exchanging our " freedom" in this life to be enslaved in chains after selling the very soul of America without even realizing it.

I don't think any of us would deny Satan's evil power, but how, exactly, do you suspect that he can or does sabotage and invalidate a sacrament (such as Baptism)?

 

[Albion]

What is "Baptism" according to the Bible? It looks like it is baptism of believers immersed in water where the baptism is an outward sign/symbol of a decision the believer has already made to follow Christ.

That would be the view of churches that relatively few Christians belong to.

 

[BobRyan]

That would be the view of churches that relatively few Christians belong to.

Not every verse in the Bible is popular

The Jews in Christ's day and in the days of the little Christian church just starting out - had a pretty good argument against Christian doctrine of the same sort.

John 7:44 And some of them wanted to arrest Him, but no one laid hands on Him. 45 The officers then came to the chief priests and Pharisees, and they said to them, “Why did you not bring Him?” 46 The officers answered, “Never has a man spoken in this way!” 47 The Pharisees then replied to them, “You have not been led astray too, have you? 48 Not one of the rulers or Pharisees has believed in Him, has he? 49 But this crowd that does not know the Law is accursed!”

Ad populum is a pretty convincing argument at times. As a member of what Christianity Today calls the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world - I am not entirely out-of-sorts when I find that something is not accepted by the majority.

 

[Albion]

Not every verse in the Bible is popular

I've noticed.

 

[Jaxxi]

That is a view.

Repentance is change of mind.

Then I saw heaven opened and here came a white horse! The one riding it was called “Faithful” and “True,” and with justice he judges and goes to war. 12 His eyes are like a fiery flame and there are many diadem crowns on his head. He has a name written that no one knows except himself. 13 He is dressed in clothing dipped in blood, and he is called the Word of God. 14 The armies that are in heaven, dressed in white, clean, fine linen, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth extends a sharp sword, so that with it he can strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod, and he stomps the winepress of the furious wrath of God, the All-Powerful. 16 He has a name written on his clothing and on his thigh: “King of kings and Lord of lords.”

17 Then I saw one angel standing in the sun, and he shouted in a loud voice to all the birds flying high in the sky:

“Come, gather around for the great banquet of God,
18 to eat your fill of the flesh of kings,
the flesh of generals,
the flesh of powerful people,
the flesh of horses and those who ride them,
and the flesh of all people, both free and slave,
and small and great!”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to do battle with the one who rode the horse and with his army. 20 Now the beast was seized, and along with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf—signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire burning with sulfur.
I don't see how it can be a view when we are told the order in which these things will happen. We know this because it says "Then,"

 

[Jaxxi]

I don't think any of us would deny Satan's evil power, but how, exactly, do you suspect that he can or does sabotage and invalidate a sacrament (such as Baptism)?

My first 2 responses on this thread say Satan has no power, so yes people are denying it.

 

[GallagherM]

@Jaxxi. There is a deep blessing if one seeks to understand revelation in all of its context and that is all I will say. From start to end. I’m not worried about discussion about Satan. Just desired to answer about baptism really though, did produce my belief of Satan defeated which many people don’t believe.

 

[BobRyan]

Why would baptism give a difference sense of feeling by doing it? So would be my question,

John 14:15 "if you Love Me keep My commandments" - following in obedience does matter
Matt 7 - "by their fruits you shall know them"

Matt 7
16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Matt 28
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to follow all that I commanded you;

 

[GallagherM]

BobRyan thank you for the scripture but can’t you just type to me like I’m a human being and just have a general discussion friend ? Ive read the Bible and don’t need preached at but like discussion.

 

[BobRyan]

Satan has power to influence Christians! We see him enter Peter to which Christ says " get behind me satan!" And he enters Judas Iscariot causing him to betray Jesus, then kill himself. Satan is as a lion seeking whom he can devour. Lions are not picky- they will devour anyone. I am not giving him more credit than he has.

True and Paul predicts error coming into the Christian Church.

Acts 20:
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan thank you for the scripture but can’t you just type to me like I’m a human being and just have a general discussion friend ? Ive read the Bible and don’t need preached at but like discussion.

I don't think a post of Bible texts that address a question raised is "preaching at you" yet on this thread. But I am open to correction on that point.

I like to give the Bible texts - because as soon as I say "I think this" or "I think that" the response comes back "well that is just your view, your preference, your teaching" and of course one person's view is not as significant as what the Word of God actually says on the topic.

 

[Albion]

My first 2 responses on this thread say Satan has no power, so yes people are denying it.

Fair enough. That's what generalizations can do. LOL

But now about my request for a clarification...?

 

[GallagherM]

Okay, it’s good you like doing that. Glad you are able to help in getting the word out there friend. It is know that for the most part everyone does have their own viewpoint of how they look at scripture. It’s why I shared Matthew 3:14? Because it’s my view of looking at John and what he said to Jesus.

He said to Jesus I need to baptized by you. The Father sends the Holy Spirit through faith on the Lord Jesus Christ in which a person receives the holy spirit in which is Christ dwelling in them.

If we take a look at (Galatians 2:20) we can see that the spirit of Christ dwells in us by faith. I see the Holy Spirit of God and the spirit of Christ all in the same way.