How can we be sure??

[Albion]

In the Bible he is in the water. In your version he is standing on the river bank or walking up a hill.

LOL. Of course he was "in" the water, just not totally under the water. We don't think he was walking on water at this point in his ministry.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's pretty clear in Jesus' case - it was once.

But this is not a detail I would get a lot of concern over if someone said "Hey I would like to be dipped 3 or 4 or 5 times during my baptism"

Biblically we have no idea, but historically Jewish ritual tevilah involved a full body immersion, this could be several times--2, 3, or even more. John's baptism of repentance was a form of this Jewish practice, and so in form it probably didn't look different from standard Jewish tevilah. Without a time machine the only information we have to go off is what is written historically, such as in the New Testament (though Josephus also mentions John the Baptist), and the general knowledge of Jewish ritual practice of the time. So we can only make educated guesses.

Claiming that John's baptism was single immersion is fundamentally unknowable. It could have been, or it could have involved several immersions.

The fact that the early Church's normative custom was three-fold immersion (in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit) simply links the Christian Sacrament of Baptism with its historically Jewish context, and gives the number special Trinitarian significance as per Christ's injunction that we baptize in the three-fold name of the Holy Trinity.

We also know that the early Church wasn't legalistic about the mode of Baptism, as the Didache presents clear evidence of what is ideal, but does not belabor the necessity of all details. Immersion was normative (specifically three-fold immersion as mentioned above), but affusion (again, thrice, in the name of the Holy Trinity) is perfectly acceptable when and where full immersion may not be possible. This, also, has basis in historic Jewish practice, as some ritual washings in Judaism involved pouring water--so it isn't surprising that the early Church accepted various modes of Baptism as valid.

Single immersion is, of course, perfectly acceptable; but it isn't the necessary mode of Baptism. There are several things necessary for Baptism to be valid Baptism, but the specific mode of Baptism isn't one of them.

Since Baptism isn't a work we do for God, but rather a work of God done for us, it would be improper for us to place unnecessary obstacles where God gives free and open invitation. The baptismal font is open to all, because the call of Christ is for all. Where certain things have been said about the proper way of baptizing the point isn't to place unnecessary obstacles, but rather to insist on a proper articulation of the Christian faith. Christian Baptism is Christian Baptism because it is Christian; and what makes it Christian is, according to the historic understanding of the Christian Church, that it is instituted by Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sins (not repentance, John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, Christian Baptism is for remission of sins by our dying, being buried with, and rising with Christ, this is by grace alone, not by our works), and we also insist that we use Christ's own words, "in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit" to be explicit in our faith.

Even a heretic or an unbeliever could, in theory, baptize someone as a Christian; because what makes Christian Baptism Christian isn't about who administers the Sacrament; but that it is done in the Christian manner.

This is why the historic Christian Church has never been legalistic about the Sacrament of Baptism, and when people have tried to bring in legalism concerning the Sacrament the Church has responded by condemning such things as errant and heretical. For example, the Donatists were condemned as heretical because they tried to use Christ's Sacraments as a cudgel to punish, rather than to reconcile. God's grace is free and abundant, the Church has God's sacred command to be the instrument of Jesus in the world through which that grace is poured out: By the preaching of the Gospel and the administering of the Sacraments.

Legalism always kills,
Grace always gives life.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Daniel Marsh]

How can we be sure that we were baptized correctly and what if we weren't? What if we were baptized by a church that has fallen short of the glory of God, by a doubting Pastor, or if something was compromised unknowingly by Satan? I am asking because in this day and age I cannot see Satan just allowing perfect and holy baptisms to take place without trying to interfere somehow. I am to the point now that here at the last stretch I think satan has his hand in everything we do and use- I put nothing past him. But something as important as baptism- they say you only need to be baptized once- but it is being done by man so what if it is done wrong?

The correct formula of Baptism is Father, Son and Holy Spirit as Jesus clearly commanded and historically verified in the Didache. Acts 2:38 tells us it was by the authority of Jesus people were baptized. "In Jesus name" is not the correct formula. One need only look at passages that have "in the name of" to see that the phrase refers to the authority of the one named.

It is your heart during baptism that matters, not the human baptizing you.

Didache
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice (Philippians 1:15-18)

If someone got saved from those preaching out of bad motives they would still be saved.

 

[Mark Quayle]

How can we be sure that we were baptized correctly and what if we weren't? What if we were baptized by a church that has fallen short of the glory of God, by a doubting Pastor, or if something was compromised unknowingly by Satan? I am asking because in this day and age I cannot see Satan just allowing perfect and holy baptisms to take place without trying to interfere somehow. I am to the point now that here at the last stretch I think satan has his hand in everything we do and use- I put nothing past him. But something as important as baptism- they say you only need to be baptized once- but it is being done by man so what if it is done wrong?

All churches fall short of the glory of God. What perfect and holy baptisms? What do you think baptism is? You sound superstitious, which is not at all the same thing as spiritual.

 

[Jaxxi]

Jesus never water baptized anyone.

So, concern yourself with being born again, if you want to go to heaven.
Being born again is a "spiritual baptism" that happens on the inside of you.
Water Baptism can only get your body wet, and nothing more.

Trying to be saved, by water baptism, is exactly as futile as trying to take communion to be born again.
In both cases, the person is doing a work, and God is doing nothing.

Are you saying Jesus was not water baptized? You say Jesus did not baptize with water....but He is Jesus!
We are not being baptized by Jesus.
The Bible says' I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Matthew 3:11

 

[Jaxxi]

All churches fall short of the glory of God. What perfect and holy baptisms? What do you think baptism is? You sound superstitious, which is not at all the same thing as spiritual.

No it's the fact that Satan has his hand in everything these days and we know humans make mistakes. I worry that my baptism might be done improperly or tainted somehow by the one prowling to devour. You know it is very naive to think that satan will just let you attain what he feels should be rightfully his without thwarting it somehow.

 

[Jaxxi]

To be "baptized into Christ", is Spiritual Baptism.
Its the result of being born again.

To be "born again" is a birth, of your Spirit", that puts you "IN Christ" as a "new Creation".

There is your "baptized into Christ".

Yes but something happens in the spirit world in a water baptism. We are laying down our old life to die and rising reborn and not only that but we are rising covered and protected in the blood of the lamb by the water we are in.

"This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth." 1 John 5:6

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

 

[Jaxxi]

I was actually baptized twice. The first time was sprinkling. Later in life, the Spirit tugged at my heart to get baptized, as in full immersion, and after that felt at peace that it pleased the Lord. It's about following the lead of the Holy Spirit.

This is true and maybe this is why the Holy Spirit is telling me it was not performed by proper people because this is my true concern. If someone was baptized by a closet satanist or an Atheist would the baptism be jeopardized? I believe they might be and maybe the Holy Spirit is what lets you know. I should not feel unsettled yet I do. Thank you!

 

[Jaxxi]

The correct formula of Baptism is Father, Son and Holy Spirit as Jesus clearly commanded and historically verified in the Didache. Acts 2:38 tells us it was by the authority of Jesus people were baptized. "In Jesus name" is not the correct formula. One need only look at passages that have "in the name of" to see that the phrase refers to the authority of the one named.

It is your heart during baptism that matters, not the human baptizing you.

Didache
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice (Philippians 1:15-18)

If someone got saved from those preaching out of bad motives they would still be saved.

What is Didache? Are you Catholic?

 

[Mark Quayle]

No it's the fact that Satan has his hand in everything these days and we know humans make mistakes. I worry that my baptism might be done improperly or tainted somehow by the one prowling to devour. You know it is very naive to think that satan will just let you attain what he feels should be rightfully his without thwarting it somehow.

Baptism done right cannot save you, nor condemn you done somehow wrong. Start there and rethink this thing.

 

[andreha]

This is true and maybe this is why the Holy Spirit is telling me it was not performed by proper people because this is my true concern. If someone was baptized by a closet satanist or an Atheist would the baptism be jeopardized? I believe they might be and maybe the Holy Spirit is what lets you know. I should not feel unsettled yet I do. Thank you!

That's the thing that so many tend to miss. The Holy Spirit is the very personification of all the fruits of the Spirit, such as kindness, gentleness, patience etc. So, He has a way of gently leading us in the right direction. And through the course of 40 odd years, I have finally learnt that the more we explicitly invite Him to lead and guide us, the more His influence will continue to shine through. We have to explicitly invite Him in, otherwise He will remain waiting at the door of one's heart.

 

[Albion]

No it's the fact that Satan has his hand in everything these days and we know humans make mistakes. I worry that my baptism might be done improperly or tainted somehow by the one prowling to devour. You know it is very naive to think that satan will just let you attain what he feels should be rightfully his without thwarting it somehow..

If the baptism is performed correctly, most churches view it as valid, even if the one performing it is unworthy in any way. This is God's sacrament instituted by Christ for our good, and the usual opinion is that its impact is not negated by the sinfulness of the administrator (and all of us are sinners, after all).

 

[Jaxxi]

Baptism done right cannot save you, nor condemn you done somehow wrong. Start there and rethink this thing.

If a President does not swear in his oath properly he is not yet President. If a preacher does not say the right ceremonial words them the couple is not married, hence fake weddings on tv shows etc. And if the person baptizing you does not say it right or believe then I don't think you would be properly baptized. Not just anyone could baptize Jesus. He needed someone special and sent by God to do it, right? I am just analyzing it with my stupid human brain! I'm sorry! I realize I don't always get the spiritual effect it has.

 

[Albion]

If a President does not swear in his oath properly he is not yet President. If a preacher does not say the right ceremonial words them the couple is not married, hence fake weddings on tv shows etc. And if the person baptizing you does not say it right or believe then I don't think you would be properly baptized.

However, the issue here is none of those things. The sacraments were instituted by God, not some church leader. God's purpose is not thwarted because the administrator of the sacrament is sinful or even deceitful.

It is well established among the Christian churches--and long has been--that the sacrament if properly performed is valid and effective for the recipient even if the minister is unworthy--which, after all, is the case with any minister, if we get right down to it. No minister, no human, is "qualified" to do the mighty works of the Lord except that God uses us mortals for his purposes.

 

[Jaxxi]

However, the issue here is none of those things. The sacraments were instituted by God, not some church leader. God's purpose is not thwarted because the administrator of the sacrament is sinful or even deceitful.

It is well established among the Christian churches--and long has been--that the sacrament if properly performed is valid and effective for the recipient even if the minister is unworthy--which, after all, is the case with any minister, if we get right down to it. No minister, no human, is "qualified" to do the mighty works of the Lord except that God uses us mortals for his purposes.

You are right. I see your point. Thank you.