How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[com7fy8]

overpowered by the Holy Spirit

You may want to familiarize yourself a little with their understanding. You will run across many of them here and it's easier when you know their lingo.

I have found that people of a same group can have different ways of understanding their same beliefs, even. So, I hope to let each one speak for oneself.

"overpowered" can be like how you bash a donkey over the head and then its dead body is submissive.

And "overpowered" can mean how a mommy's warm hand overpowers the cold of her little girl's hand and transforms it by warming it into submission to her.

In any case, to me it is clear that God's grace changes us to become submissive to God in His love's "gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God" (in 1 Peter 3:4). But there can be predestination people but also free will people who are not submissive and gentle in sharing with God in His love.

The ones who make the most public show of a group may not speak for others who are lower . . . not so public. Plus, how do we know certain present-day Calvinists are representing John correctly, if they can not correctly represent what the Bible says??

 

[Thursday]

Is cooperation simply another way to describe synergism compared to monergism?

It could be. It is the biblical way of describing Christianity.

We must pick up our cross daily and follow Christ. A man reaps what he sows.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"overpowered" can be like how you bash a donkey over the head and then its dead body is submissive.
And "overpowered" can mean how a mommy's warm hand overpowers the cold of her little girl's hand and transforms it by warming it into submission to her.
In any case, to me it is clear that God's grace changes us to become submissive to God in His love's "gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God" (in 1 Peter 3:4). But there can be predestination people but also free will people who are not submissive and gentle in sharing with God in His love.

The ones who make the most public show of a group may not speak for others who are lower . . . not so public. Plus, how do we know certain present-day Calvinists are representing John correctly, if they can not correctly represent what the Bible says??

That is very interesting. Never heard someone say that there is both predestination and free will.

I am not going to argue with you, nor do I say that everyone believes the same exactly. But the one thing that separates a Calvinist on the most basic level is predestination vs. free will. I will give you that to think about.

That is what separates Calvinists from non-Calvinists. Predestination, irresistable grace, the Holy Spirit hitting them over the head, vs. free will.

You will see it eventually.

 

[bottomofsandal]

I have found that people of a same group can have different ways of understanding their same beliefs, even. So, I hope to let each one speak for oneself.

"overpowered" can be like how you bash a donkey over the head and then its dead body is submissive.

And "overpowered" can mean how a mommy's warm hand overpowers the cold of her little girl's hand and transforms it by warming it into submission to her.

In any case, to me it is clear that God's grace changes us to become submissive to God in His love's "gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God" (in 1 Peter 3:4). But there can be predestination people but also free will people who are not submissive and gentle in sharing with God in His love.

The ones who make the most public show of a group may not speak for others who are lower . . . not so public. Plus, how do we know certain present-day Calvinists are representing John correctly, if they can not correctly represent what the Bible says??

Great post brother!

Calvinism is not a Biblical replacement.

It was a response and refutation to the Five Articles of Remonstrance.

Hence, The Synod of Dordt responded with 5 (TULIP) counter arguments.


Calvinism was never intended as a substitute for The Bible.

The majority of people who argue against Calvinism are absolutely clueless about its tenets.

There are so many variations of Calvinism, that really only the HYPER Calvinists are in error.

 

[Thursday]

Great post brother!

Calvinism is not a Biblical replacement.

It was a response and refutation to the Five Articles of Remonstrance.

Hence, The Synod of Dordt responded with 5 (TULIP) counter arguments.


Calvinism was never intended as a substitute for The Bible.

The majority of people who argue against Calvinism are absolutely clueless about its tenets.

There are so many variations of Calvinism, that really only the HYPER Calvinists are in error.

Do you include John Calvin in this category?

 

[bottomofsandal]

It could be. It is the biblical way of describing Christianity.

We must pick up our cross daily and follow Christ. A man reaps what he sows.

How are we cooperating with God?...by carrying our cross?

Is following Christ and working with Christ what you mean?

How about salvation? How do we cooperate with God's grace?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Great post brother!

Calvinism is not a Biblical replacement.

It was a response and refutation to the Five Articles of Remonstrance.

Hence, The Synod of Dordt responded with 5 (TULIP) counter arguments.

Calvinism was never intended as a substitute for The Bible.

The majority of people who argue against Calvinism are absolutely clueless about its tenets.

There are so many variations of Calvinism, that really only the HYPER Calvinists are in error.

No one said that Calvinism tries to replace the Bible. So you don't even know what the issue is.

Helps to know what the issue is.

 

[bottomofsandal]

I have found that people of a same group can have different ways of understanding their same beliefs, even. So, I hope to let each one speak for oneself.

"overpowered" can be like how you bash a donkey over the head and then its dead body is submissive.

And "overpowered" can mean how a mommy's warm hand overpowers the cold of her little girl's hand and transforms it by warming it into submission to her.

In any case, to me it is clear that God's grace changes us to become submissive to God in His love's "gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God" (in 1 Peter 3:4). But there can be predestination people but also free will people who are not submissive and gentle in sharing with God in His love.

The ones who make the most public show of a group may not speak for others who are lower . . . not so public. Plus, how do we know certain present-day Calvinists are representing John correctly, if they can not correctly represent what the Bible says??

Different people have different definitions.
Within a definition is variations, degrees, and subtle nuances.
Even within mainstream denominations there is not complete unity.

We cannot pigeonhole, compartmentalize, and brand people.
This is really just laziness and lack of effort to establish unity.
It does not add anything to the dialogue telling others what they believe.

I am glad you spoke of free will and predestination in the same breath.
Many people people view this as an either or proposition, but it is a both and.
Chosen in Him before the foundations of the world does not exclude freewill.

 

[Thursday]

How are we cooperating with God?...by carrying our cross?

Is following Christ and working with Christ what you mean?

How about salvation? How do we cooperate with God's grace?

By obedience to Jesus.

 

[com7fy8]

Never heard someone say that there is both predestination and free will.

I was told that the Roman Catholic Church teaches both.

My personal take is that we have real freedom, only as much as we are in sharing with God in His freedom.

 

[com7fy8]

How are we cooperating with God?...by carrying our cross?

I think that taking up our cross means or includes that we live the love which had Jesus so suffer and die for any and all people. So, we are sharing with Him in His own all-caring love, like Jesus on the cross.

How about salvation? How do we cooperate with God's grace?

1 Corinthians 6:17 says,

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

First, our Father draws someone, then joins him or her to His Holy Spirit, making the individual "one spirit with" Jesus. Now the person has one's new beginning in God's own love in the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). Faith includes this union; so it is not only believing.

Different people have different definitions.

This can make any discussion interesting. Ones can disagree with each other, but not even understand what each other means.

 

[bottomofsandal]

By obedience to Jesus.

Obedience is pretty broad. Can you narrow it down please?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I think that taking up our cross means or includes that we live the love which had Jesus so suffer and die for any and all people. So, we are sharing with Him in His own all-caring love, like Jesus on the cross.

I think that carrying our cross also entails that once the world knows who we are, Christ's Kid, they will hate us as the world hated Him. Says in God's Word that will happen.

 

[EmSw]

Obedience is pretty broad. Can you narrow it down please?

What part of obedience do you not understand? Please share.

It is obedience to listen to Jesus, 'come' to Him that you may have life.

Why are you hesitating? Did you find life somewhere else?

 

[ToBeLoved]

1 Corinthians 6:17 says,

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

First, our Father draws someone, then joins him or her to His Holy Spirit, making the individual "one spirit with" Jesus. Now the person has one's new beginning in God's own love in the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). Faith includes this union; so it is not only believing.
.

Good verse.

We are not only joined to the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit also resides within us. We (each believer) is a temple of the Holy Spirit. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[bottomofsandal]

I was told that the Roman Catholic Church teaches both.

My personal take is that we have real freedom, only as much as we are in sharing with God in His freedom.

Though we are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world,

our (free) will must still believe in The One sent. Do you concur?

The bugaboo for some is between predestination and foreknowledge.

Whether the outcome is predetermined or foreknown, it is the same...

 

[ToBeLoved]

What part of obedience do you not understand? Please share.

It is obedience to listen to Jesus, 'come' to Him that you may have life.

Why are you hesitating? Did you find life somewhere else?

Off topic, but you must promise me never to change your icon. It makes me laugh each time I see it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The bugaboo for some is between predestination and foreknowledge.

Whether the outcome is predetermined or foreknown, it is the same...

Not really.

Foreknowledge is that He is Omniscient, knows all, the past, present and future. He cannot not know. I think most believers believe that to be true.

Predestination is that He has planned out and destined before the world each thing that we would think, say and do. That's the one that many don't think God did. If we were predestined to God, then we didn't come to Him out of desire to be with Him or love. The Holy Spirit did it through no desire on our part. We just love Him because the Holy Spirit made us do it.

 

[EmSw]

Off topic, but you must promise me never to change your icon. It makes me laugh each time I see it.

I will not change it unless I ask you first.

 

[bottomofsandal]

First, our Father draws someone, then joins him or her to His Holy Spirit, making the individual "one spirit with" Jesus. Now the person has one's new beginning in God's own love in the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). Faith includes this union; so it is not only believing.

Jesus tells us no one can come to Him, unless The Father draw him.

The unprecedented union with Father, Son, and Spirit is almost incomprehensible.

I love that verse...the love of God poured out in our hearts by The Holy Spirit.


It's a stark reminder that some have a love "FOR" God, and others have the love "OF" God!

two completely different things...