How can I come back from being apostate? (Hebrews 6)

[Dorothy Mae]

Taking full forgiveness is not demanding it.

If someone demands your car or just takes it without saying a word, is there a difference?

It is simply exercising faith in God's word, that if you ask (I would think anyone caught in sin would always ask humbly, though of course some may not have truly repented but are just going through the motions) that God will grant the request.

Where does God promise that if you ask anything, you get it? Where is that?

Now I do recognize that you too know that repentance must be real. But even if one repents, that doesn’t mean He is obligated. And “taking” is not asking. It is demanding. Eve took the fruit and that did not work out well.

As to turning one over to Satan, yes someone in leadership typically would instigate this but what about someone without a Pastor? Certainly, it might be possible that God would do the same thing.

No there is no record of this being instigated by God. We can turn someone over to Satan to save their souls but I don’t think God does this.
(This doesn’t eliminate the right Satan has over some who gave themselves to him to get some pleasure.)

Anyway, lots of implications here, the finer points probably not too relevant with the main thing having any believer get back into fellowship with God.

I agree.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I have no reason to believe it is not sincere, and am answering it as such.

If, at some point, the OP writes "ha, fooled you all; this is a joke", the worst that will happen is that I may feel foolish. I'd rather that, than find out it is real and genuine, but that I have not taken it as such and mocked a Christian brother.
As I said, if you felt it is not real, you could have refrained from saying anything. Or, if you needed the OP to know that in your opinion he was talking nonsense; messaged him privately.

I do not share your point of view for several reasons.jn7:24. You are welcome to your point of view. I do not believe every story posted as I have seen this kind of thing before.
In his own words he says...God was speaking directly to him, then he admits he was not sure it was the voice of God.

 

[lsume]

I agree. Not sure if these care anymore. Curtis cares. The others probably don’t come to Christians to get help.

I’ve started a conversation with Curtis on his situation. The Word of God in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 both refer to those whom have truly been born again. This very strong meat in God’s Word is not for babes in Christ. For someone who has not yet been visited by Christ and tasted of Heaven and been illuminated and enters into ongoing willful sin, a simple prayer for forgiveness is not sufficient. Punishment is waiting on such an individual. A certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation reserved for the adversaries awaits. Consider what King Saul went through. I know this from first hand experience. I can’t absolutely say that I ever entered into a knowing and continuing willful act of sin. However, it is a fearful thing to fall into The Hands of The Living God. I have had that experience as well and I never want to have that happen again for eternity. Scourging and chastising are part of True Christian growth as well. The Fear of The Lord is in today’s vernacular bone paralyzing terror. When the enemies of God The Father were cast out of Heaven to earth, it was then that The Word of God came that States thou believest there is one God, thou doest well, the devils also believe and tremble. Those that were cast out had no clue as to the absolute and infinite Power of God The Father. I doubt that God The Father has ever Shown all of His Power. Since when Christ walked the earth, He was a perfect example of how God The Father is. God The Father has infinite Wisdom and is the only one Who Knows the Future and those He shares knowledge of the future with. Because of His Great Wisdom, He would not have shown those He knew would fall His Power. The fallen found out the hard way. After they were cast down, they wanted Enoch to plead with God The Father on their behalf. God The Father refused to hear of it.

Now consider, after all of the time since the fall, that the fallen have waxed worse and worse with pure hatred and no tempering. Also consider that all of the pain and suffering in this world has been caused by sin. There is a great deal more that can be gleaned from Scripture on this topic. I do not recommend that just anyone read The Book of Enoch not because it’s not true but because it names names that you don’t want floating around in your head until you are 100% protected by Christ.

If you think that any of the aforementioned is crazy or sounds crazy, please consider something that will sound even more so. The evil knowledge that the fallen shared with man, some of which had been written down, was burned up in the form of books by new believers. The value in pieces of silver was 50,000. Christ was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver.

Acts.19

1. 
   [19] Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Just as some of God The Father’s children know that they are His children, so do some of the children of the fallen. The fallen had knowledge that surpassed man and has continued to grow in probability. I have considered that perhaps the millions of UFO sightings might be constructed by the fallen and/or the children of the fallen. That possibility is not necessary for salvation and might be a giant waste of time to ponder. However, should such a thing be true, public revelation of such a thing could cause a great falling away. I don’t dwell on that possibility nor do I recommend anyone else to dwell on it.

 

[Strong in Him]

I do not share your point of view for several reasons.jn7:24. You are welcome to your point of view. I do not believe every story posted as I have seen this kind of thing before.
In his own words he says...God was speaking directly to him, then he admits he was not sure it was the voice of God.

You're entitled to your point of view.
Even so, writing things like, "sure ..... ha ha", and "lol .... very active imagination for sure", are not edifying or necessary. You may not think much of the OP; these words don't show you in a very good light.

 

[Invalidusername]

I’ve started a conversation with Curtis on his situation. The Word of God in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 both refer to those whom have truly been born again. This very strong meat in God’s Word is not for babes in Christ. For someone who has not yet been visited by Christ and tasted of Heaven and been illuminated and enters into ongoing willful sin, a simple prayer for forgiveness is not sufficient. Punishment is waiting on such an individual. A certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation reserved for the adversaries awaits. Consider what King Saul went through. I know this from first hand experience. I can’t absolutely say that I ever entered into a knowing and continuing willful act of sin. However, it is a fearful thing to fall into The Hands of The Living God. I have had that experience as well and I never want to have that happen again for eternity. Scourging and chastising are part of True Christian growth as well. The Fear of The Lord is in today’s vernacular bone paralyzing terror. When the enemies of God The Father were cast out of Heaven to earth, it was then that The Word of God came that States thou believest there is one God, thou doest well, the devils also believe and tremble. Those that were cast out had no clue as to the absolute and infinite Power of God The Father. I doubt that God The Father has ever Shown all of His Power. Since when Christ walked the earth, He was a perfect example of how God The Father is. God The Father has infinite Wisdom and is the only one Who Knows the Future and those He shares knowledge of the future with. Because of His Great Wisdom, He would not have shown those He knew would fall His Power. The fallen found out the hard way. After they were cast down, they wanted Enoch to plead with God The Father on their behalf. God The Father refused to hear of it.

Now consider, after all of the time since the fall, that the fallen have waxed worse and worse with pure hatred and no tempering. Also consider that all of the pain and suffering in this world has been caused by sin. There is a great deal more that can be gleaned from Scripture on this topic. I do not recommend that just anyone read The Book of Enoch not because it’s not true but because it names names that you don’t want floating around in your head until you are 100% protected by Christ.

If you think that any of the aforementioned is crazy or sounds crazy, please consider something that will sound even more so. The evil knowledge that the fallen shared with man, some of which had been written down, was burned up in the form of books by new believers. The value in pieces of silver was 50,000. Christ was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver.

Acts.19

1. 
   [19] Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Just as some of God The Father’s children know that they are His children, so do some of the children of the fallen. The fallen had knowledge that surpassed man and has continued to grow in probability. I have considered that perhaps the millions of UFO sightings might be constructed by the fallen and/or the children of the fallen. That possibility is not necessary for salvation and might be a giant waste of time to ponder. However, should such a thing be true, public revelation of such a thing could cause a great falling away. I don’t dwell on that possibility nor do I recommend anyone else to dwell on it.

The demons knew God's power. They were created with infused knowledge and many believe that they saw God creating the universe. You are painting the picture that they are helpless victims. They aren't.

I admit I don't know why God won't have mercy on them. We like to think that God is mercy(and He is) but He only has mercy on who He chooses to. The demons and the people who are not the elect all are not going to choose God by their free will but it is also because God allowed them to not choose Him. God can prevent this at any time and He does for specific individuals but not for others.

 

[lsume]

The demons knew God's power. They were created with infused knowledge and many believe that they saw God creating the universe. You are painting the picture that they are helpless victims. They aren't.

I admit I don't know why God won't have mercy on them. We like to think that God is mercy(and He is) but He only has mercy on who He chooses to. The demons and the people who are not the elect all are not going to choose God by their free will but it is also because God allowed them to not choose Him. God can prevent this at any time and He does for specific individuals but not for others.

I’m in no way painting them as helpless victims. What I’m pointing out is that God’s Wisdom is so great and His Power is so great that He would not show the fallen His maximum of either. If you have ever read The Book of Enoch, the fallen were not aware that God knew the future. That is what I believe. God The Father is Lowly and Meek even though He has infinite Power and Wisdom. The fallen still don’t know The Extent of God The Father. You give far too much credit to the fallen as I see it from your response. Thou believest there is one God, thou doest well, the devils also believe and tremble. They are terrified at what is coming.

 

[lsume]

I agree. Not sure if these care anymore. Curtis cares. The others probably don’t come to Christians to get help.

Thank you. I’m just happy that you understand and care. There are trolls on this site according to our youngest daughter who will soon turn 39. I didn’t know what that was until she explained it to me after I was attacked by one.

May our Lord Jesus The Christ Bless you

 

[Invalidusername]

I’m in no way painting them as helpless victims. What I’m pointing out is that God’s Wisdom is so great that and His Power is so great that He would not show the fallen His maximum of either. If you have ever read The Book of Enoch, the fallen were not aware that God knew the future. That is what I believe. God The Father is Lowly and Meek even though He has infinite Power and Wisdom. The fallen still don’t know The Extent of God The Father. You give far too much credit to the fallen as I see it from your response.

That's true. I admit I know nothing about it. It's a constant source of curiosity. However Enoch is not canon and thus taken with a grain of salt.

I only hope I have not failed the mercy of god just as the demons have.

 

[lsume]

Taking full forgiveness is not demanding it. It is simply exercising faith in God's word, that if you ask (I would think anyone caught in sin would always ask humbly, though of course some may not have truly repented but are just going through the motions) that God will grant the request.

As to turning one over to Satan, yes someone in leadership typically would instigate this but what about someone without a Pastor? Certainly, it might be possible that God would do the same thing. Anyway, lots of implications here, the finer points probably not too relevant with the main thing having any believer get back into fellowship with God.

I can only speak of my own experience as it relates to the original topic. I went through great tribulation after sinning with knowledge. To whom much is given much is expected. I do know that I can’t speak for anyone else.

 

[lsume]

That's true. I admit I know nothing about it. It's a constant source of curiosity. However Enoch is not canon and thus taken with a grain of salt.

I only hope I have not failed the mercy of god just as the demons have.

I strongly agree with you in that The Book of Enoch is not a canon accepted as part of The Bible. However, as I recall, I explained that in my comment. Until one has Christ build the protective hedge around His Brothers and Sisters, they very well may be exposed to names listed in The Book of Enoch that they don’t want in their heads. As you probably know, names have power and meaning as evidenced by Abraham and Sarah and The Apostle Paul and they are not alone. If you have ever read testimony of someone who was possessed and later freed and saved by Christ, the point should make sense. I don’t feel comfortable writing on that subject.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I hope you're right. I hope I am saveable.

I'm confident you're saveable.

However, at some point, you'll need to begin take some steps--even if just baby steps--to allow God to 'expand' and 'recondition' your mind ............... so that you eventually do come to a place where you can say to yourself, "Self, I think I see what's been happening to me. And I don't like it, and I'm going to join hands with the Christ's Church through the Holy Spirit so that I can grow further in God's 'likeness.'" It can be done. But, the growth comes in steps, not by way of some sudden, overwhelming flash of light or wind of inspiration that perfects you without your ongoing effort(s) and process of learning through it all.

Anyway, just you're being here at CF and being open to talking about these things is one of the first steps. So, well done on that account, my friend!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Thank you. I’m just happy that you understand and care. There are trolls on this site according to our youngest daughter who will soon turn 39. I didn’t know what that was until she explained it to me after I was attacked by one.

May our Lord Jesus The Christ Bless you

What does it mean and what does turning 39 mean? I have no idea.

 

[lsume]

What does it mean and what does turning 39 mean? I have no idea.

It means that I had never heard of a troll on websites before and it took a 39 year old to tell me about it.

 

[Strong in Him]

What does it mean and what does turning 39 mean? I have no idea.

Turning 39 means that she will soon be celebrating her 39th birthday.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It means that I had never heard of a troll on websites before and it took a 39 year old to tell me about it.

Thanks, thought it had something to do with the troll.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I only hope I have not failed the mercy of god just as the demons have.

The major difference between you and the demons are, the demons have not turned from their wicked way and have shown no sign of wanting to return to God, but you have.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I have repented of my sins but I will continue to try and find something that I have not renounced. I'll read that article that you posted tomorrow. Don't like reading about demons before bed. I typically have bad dreams or panic attacks at night time if I do.

Try going through the list in that article about demon legal rights to see if anything rings a bell. For me, unforgiveness and inheritance - generational were something that I didn't think about.

 

[Invalidusername]

Try going through the list in that article about demon legal rights to see if anything rings a bell. For me, unforgiveness and inheritance - generational were something that I didn't think about.

I will read about it soon and then pm you.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I am just so disappointed that I messed up so bad. I got blind and my mind darkened. I was very angry and bitter person before I was saved and I allowed that to creep back into my life when circumstances turned against me. It's like I woke up recently and all of a sudden realized what I had done. I wish I had never been born often. There's nothing worse than having the best thing ever given to you and then losing it. I don't know if I am saveable but I will keep trying. It's hard sometimes because if there's no hope it's hard to keep up the effort. Some days I can't even get out of bed and can't even function. I know you think it's hard to fall away but it's actually incredibly easy or at least it was for me. I can't even pinpoint exactly where it all started. It all was so gradual and crept into my life unnoticed.

It sounds like you are depressed. Your feeling of your relationship with God have not yet been restored could be due to a demon oppression (not possession).

 

[Richard T]

If someone demands your car or just takes it without saying a word, is there a difference?
Where does God promise that if you ask anything, you get it? Where is that?

I admit God is not a short order cook filling orders as Christians ask. Still, he did set things into motion that if you ask according to His word, by faith and satisfying any conditions, he will respond.
Matthew 7:11 (KJV)
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Mark 11:24 (KJV)
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
John 15:7 (KJV)
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Of course, if you ask for the wrong things, or in the wrong heart, you won't receive.
James 4:3 (KJV)
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
1 John 3:22 (KJV)
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

When one truly repents and asks God for forgiveness, it seems important to me that you can clear the slate. Those who continue in guilt and condemnation have a burden they really can't carry. It is nullifying the work of the cross. Hebrews 6 is conditional, and no one can tell when a specific believer crosses the line. Jesus said to forgive 70 x 7, and God is merciful. Also, as I said, even if one thinks they may have crossed the line, I would still suggest serving God and see where that takes you. A seared conscience may take some time to figure out the response. This person can be foggy, unable to hear from God, pestered by Satanic influences and will have to press in. Still, I have not known or heard of anyone that truly desired God's will and ways to be shut out.