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How can I come back from being apostate? (Hebrews 6)

Invalidusername

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I apologize for continuing this but why again do you think that you will bring many to Christ? For what you have done in the past, you will suffer for a time appointed by God The Father. However, after sufficient scourging and chastising, I believe that you will have grown a great deal in Christ. Patience training is difficult. Since Christ can pull away from you and then get close to you according to The Will of God The Father many times per day, you learn quickly that you are at His Mercy. When the day comes that you can be set free, you will appreciate it much more while warning others not to take Salvation for granted. I’ve used the following analogy; when you lift weights and get tired to stop. When Christ is training you in longsuffering and patience, you have no control over how long Christ might have you endure. The key point here is to endure and to thank God The Father for what you have. I also have cried many tears as a dog that returned to its own vomit. However, since that time I have been Blessed with many miracles. The Peace that Passes all Understanding has only come to me very few times. However, I have experienced The True Love of God The Father and That Love is so Powerful that my words can’t do It Justice. That Love will not easily go away. Chastisement and scourging are very much part of our growth. Look at Christ Himself. At the very worst moment in eternity for Christ, Christ felt that God The Father had abandoned Him. There are so many Scriptures that are hidden from the many. When Christ comes to you as a thief in the night and Truly opens your eyes and ears, that is when you will understand. Please do let me know why you believe in future events that relate to you?

It's interesting reading your posts because I am being overtaken by a crippling fear of going to hell in the last couple weeks so it feels like you're telling the truth here. Hopefully you are right and OP is just being chastised.
 
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lsume

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It's interesting reading your posts because I am being overtaken by a crippling fear of going to hell in the last couple weeks so it feels like you're telling the truth here. Hopefully you are right and OP is just being chastised.
Having lived through understanding God’s Word in Hebrews Chapters 6 and 10, I can speak from experience. I can absolutely say that I never want to go through that again. I can also back up God’s Word That Says It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God! Please trust me when I tell you that you do not want to fall into The Hands of The Living God. God The Father knew what I would do before the world was formed. In fact, as the time drew near for my rebirth, I was warned about what I might do or would do. I absolutely believe that Christ will not lose any of God’s elect. I’ve taken comfort in the story of King Saul. When he died he would be where Samuel was.
 
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Invalidusername

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Having lived through understanding God’s Word in Hebrews Chapters 6 and 10, I can speak from experience. I can absolutely say that I never want to go through that again. I can also back up God’s Word That Says It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God! Please trust me when I tell you that you do not want to fall into The Hands of The Living God. God The Father knew what I would do before the world was formed. In fact, as the time drew near for my rebirth, I was warned about what I might do or would do. I absolutely believe that Christ will not lose any of God’s elect. I’ve taken comfort in the story of King Saul. When he died he would be where Samuel was.

Unfortunately I was truly born again when I backslid. People will say "Well you were never truly saved." but they don't know how genuine my repentance was at conversion. I just was a moron and didn't read the Bible and increase my faith after conversion but rather sat back and expected God to do it all. So over time my heart waxed cold and I was able to sin without conviction.

I don't know if I ever will recover from this. I want to cry about my sins and be remorseful but I cannot. I think I might be Esau, searching for repentance carefully but there is no place left for it.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Unfortunately I was truly born again when I backslid. People will say "Well you were never truly saved." but they don't know how genuine my repentance was at conversion. I just was a moron and didn't read the Bible and increase my faith after conversion but rather sat back and expected God to do it all. So over time my heart waxed cold and I was able to sin without conviction.

I don't know if I ever will recover from this. I want to cry about my sins and be remorseful but I cannot. I think I might be Esau, searching for repentance carefully but there is no place left for it.

That's your singleness and depression talking, along with your being "stressed out" from college. Don't beat yourself black-and-blue for things that were set in motion by the surrounding culture.

Are you at fault for some measure of your sine (whatever that something is?). Sure. You are. However, remember, "they" are at fault too, but the usual civic philosophy and mantra, focusing on individualism the way it does, typically leans toward exonerating corporate society as a whole whenever there's dirt to be dug up on anyone ................................. just remember that. And then remember what Paul says in Ephesians Chapter 6. ;)
 
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LoveHisPresence

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Just so you know, I read but a few first replies. One thing I was wondering...it seems you spent more than a few years "backsliding" I use quotes because I didnt see you mention any real discipline from the Lord or spiritual consequences because of walking away. That just makes me WONDER if you are sure you got saved that week after you spoke to your couch.
I speak from unfortunate experience that you can't go years into deep sin as a bornagain Christian without God really dealing with you to a greater and greater degree. Not just bad things happening that happens to everyone, but you will get to the point where God will allow demons to bother you because you are of the truth and God won't be mocked. HE does it in love to bring you back. You will also sense that draw, your conscience and God won't let you sin in such a way and not let it just vex your soul. Because you have the holy spirit, it goes against your new nature when you sin. But you didn't mention things like that just that bad things happened and you knew you were sinning. That could just be because you had a Christian upbrining.
I don't know you, I can't say for certain you're not saved but it's something to consider. And if I'm wrong and you just left those parts out I apologize.
 
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akaDaScribe

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Unfortunately I was truly born again when I backslid. People will say "Well you were never truly saved." but they don't know how genuine my repentance was at conversion. I just was a moron and didn't read the Bible and increase my faith after conversion but rather sat back and expected God to do it all. So over time my heart waxed cold and I was able to sin without conviction.

I don't know if I ever will recover from this. I want to cry about my sins and be remorseful but I cannot. I think I might be Esau, searching for repentance carefully but there is no place left for it.

Why are you not remorseful about your sin?
 
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Invalidusername

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Why are you not remorseful about your sin?

I don't know. I try and try to have remorse. I know my sin broke my relationship with God and alienated Him from me. It's a head knowledge but I can't get my heart to follow.

Repentance is a gift of God.
 
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Ing Bee

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Hi there-
I am so glad you wrote in and I only regret that this couldn't be an actual conversation because this back-and-forth typing business is not ideal. As you read my response, please read it with all the warmth, affection and humor your can imagine, because that is the spirit in which it is intended. I know this issue probably feels heavy and oppressive, but if we were chatting over coffee you would hear the loving-kindness of God in His word. He's the God who knows you and that you can know.

To begin, I am confident that 1 John 5:10-11 provides context for all of these type of questions. "He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have life". The righteousness of God comes solely through personal trust in the Father's unique Son, the exact representation of His Being (Hebrews 1:2-3). Christ came to rescue rebels, to seek and save those who are lost (John 3:17). He knows his sheep and no one can snatch them from his hand.

As "Sabertooth" indicated in his comments, the fact that you want to know God and are worried about not being able to indicates that your heart is not seared. Read Psalm 51, written by David after his adultery, conspiracy, murder, and collateral murder (all the soldiers that died when Joab pulled back from Uriah). In verse 17 he writes under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, " a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise".

As with any relationship, interpersonal trust with God can't be imparted by family or compelled by any other individual or group. You know that from your experience in your home.

If you do a study in the New Testament, "faith" and "belief" are not primarily about intellectual assent to some biblical doctrines or propositions. After all, as James says, "even the demons believe and shudder" (James 2:19). Just recognizing that someone exists does not mean you are in a love relationship with them. There is no such thing as trusting Jesus as your Savior and not as your Lord. He can't be your Savior if he is not your Lord. On the day of Judgement Jesus will say "I never knew you" to those who called him "Lord" and did works in his name (Matthew 7:21) This is all consistent with your experience in High School and your experience through Bible college.

The issue is: are you in a personal relationship with the only One that saves, trusting in all that he has said and done on your behalf, not as a list of facts but as descriptions of a real person who loves you and has acted in history while you were still a sinner (Romans 5:8)?

Regarding your intentional sin to "punish" God, it's not really any different than the younger son in Jesus's parable about the two brothers. Jesus uses that parable to shame the self-righteous pharisees by showing the overflowing kindness of generosity God has toward rebels who turn to him. Note that the son comes back because he believed 1) his father was generous and 2)would at least receive him as a worker. The father then completely blows the son away with his generosity by first unashamedly running to meet the son (a complete indignity in the Middle East) then clothing him and giving him his signet ring.

If I can simplify, when you trust someone in any relationship, you step in confidence based not on the unknown, but on the known--what their character is. It sounds like you are listening to lies: God won't or can't take you back, God's goodness and grace is limited by your feelings. Read Exodus 34:5-7. That is what Yahweh, the God revealed to Moses and revealed by Jesus says about himself. He is a free agent. As Jesus said, the Son gives life to whomever he wishes. He is not limited by your current limitations and inability. He has a perpetual stance toward you, until death, of openness and invitation. All is not lost. Take heart. The key question is do you believe him?

What sometimes gets called "walking by faith" is really living your life on the basis of what he says is true rather than what your personal experience tells you is true. Hebrews 11:6 says that there are two things necessary to please God: 1) you believe there is Someone there to know and be in a right relationship with and that 2) your persistent seeking WILL be rewarded with relationship to your Creator.

To put it another way, if you in your despair give up on the idea that God will be pleased as you seek him, then you are no longer "earnestly" or "persistently" seeking him. You have been lulled into a deception that only certain types of people who persistently seek will be rewarded, something He has never said.

It sounds like Hebrews 6 is of high significance to you but I would hold up that passage against the countless examples from both the Old and New testaments in which God says and shows his desire to show his loyal, steadfast love to rebels (1 Corinthians 13 is the classic explication of "agape" which John notes is Yahweh's nature in 1 John 4:8). Additionally, the numerous passages that indicate the New Covenant is persistent (Hebrews 8 quoting Jeremiah 31).

On a personal note, I am a father. Jesus tells me that human fathers, though we are evil, give good gifts to our children, but that God as THE Father is unmatchable. If one of my kids told me to drop dead, denouncing our family, and later was grieved at and came back, I would throw my arms around them in a heartbeat. It is not possible that I am more loving the God of Everything.

To wrap up, the proof is in the pudding: true fellowship with God in Christ through the Spirit results in a transformed life. I would go with your conclusion #1 about Hebrews 6 and then point out that your wrestling is a clear indication that your heart has not been hardened beyond feeling. There is only one way that you can not "live the calling of God in your life", and that is to reject his grace through Jesus. He is just as advertised: faithful and just to cleanse you of all unrighteousness- past, present and future. He WILL complete the work He has begun in you. Yes, you are actively involved in obedience, after all you are in an interpersonal relationship with God when you are adopted into his family (Read Ephesians 1), but you are to "work out your salvation...because it is God who works and will IN you to FULFILL His good purpose." (Philippians 2:12-13)

I hope that is helpful. I'm not saying your marriage will be easy, but I think you are making yourself the main character of the story rather than Yeshua, "God Saves". If you will trust the character of God, revealed in the Cross, and act on that trust by living the new life he has given you (Titus 3:3-7) you will walk in newness of life, not because of your ability but because of his ability and faithfulness. And by the way, as far as your wife goes, "Nothing will be impossible for God". He alone knows the story He is declaring in your life together?

With Affectionate and Confident Hope-
 
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Lily of Valleys

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I don't know. I try and try to have remorse. I know my sin broke my relationship with God and alienated Him from me. It's a head knowledge but I can't get my heart to follow.

Repentance is a gift of God.
You can ask God to change your heart though. Very often we make the mistakes of trying to fix things up by our flesh without realizing all we need to do is to simply surrender it to God and to rest in Him. To surrender involves humbling ourselves in front of God, complete trust in Him, stopping to take control and letting Him take control.

 
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ICONO'CLAST

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Why have you bothered writing a post if all you can do is doubt, mock and make fun of the OP?
Hello Strong,
I do not believe the post was sincere or believable.read it again....do you believe it to be sincere?
Do you believe a person studies at bible college and cannot spell Calvinist, or Arminian? What bible school would that be?
A person claims supernatural manifestations, and yet lives as a whoremonger fornicating with 30.women?
I think the.mocking was the other way around.I just did not report the post as I do not believe in censorship.
 
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Invalidusername

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You can ask God to change your heart though. Very often we make the mistakes of trying to fix things up by our flesh without realizing all we need to do is to simply surrender it to God and to rest in Him. To surrender involves humbling ourselves in front of God, complete trust in Him, stopping to take control and letting Him take control.


I've been praying for God to change my heart but it's not happening.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I don't know. I try and try to have remorse. I know my sin broke my relationship with God and alienated Him from me. It's a head knowledge but I can't get my heart to follow.

Repentance is a gift of God.

No, it's not really a 'gift.' It's something that we all need to do, but it's not intended to be easy.
 
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Invalidusername

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Are you still struggling with direct willful sins?

Not really. I quit all of them. I did slip up a couple weeks ago when I felt like I was a hopeless apostate. But before that I went for months trying to obey God and being successful but still no return of the Holy Spirit. I wavered and almost gave up but I'm back and still trying to restore my relationship with God.

No, it's not really a 'gift.' It's something that we all need to do, but it's not intended to be easy.

2 Timothy 2:25 "Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,"
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Not really. I quit all of them. I did slip up a couple weeks ago when I felt like I was a hopeless apostate. But before that I went for months trying to obey God and being successful but still no return of the Holy Spirit. I wavered and almost gave up but I'm back and still trying to restore my relationship with God.



2 Timothy 2:25 "Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,"

IUN, you're doing yourself a disfavor by relying on one single personal interpretation of one single verse, and I would contend (for your sake) that if we take the TOTAL contexts of all of the verses in the New Testament that pertain to "repentance," I think you'll see that it is something you decide to do.

In fact, the context of the verse you've cited has to to with a person's responding with God's assistance after being taught the truth. However, being given God's assistance through the Spirit doesn't mean He's going to supernaturally take away your temptations. No, what happens is He provides you the way, the truth and the life in Christ through other members of His Church.

So, to be free, you have to intermingle with other supportive Christians and allow your mind to be gradually transformed and renewed (not overnight) by God's direction and orchestration. It takes time, patience, and some redirection of your passions.
 
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Lily of Valleys

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Not really. I quit all of them. I did slip up a couple weeks ago when I felt like I was a hopeless apostate. But before that I went for months trying to obey God and being successful but still no return of the Holy Spirit. I wavered and almost gave up but I'm back and still trying to restore my relationship with God.
I don't know what type of willful sins you were involved with, but from my experience, there is usually some sin that has not been dealt with or renounced when relationship with God is not restored.

Supernatural power is usually involved when willful sins are involved for a lengthy period of time to draw us into deeper sins and to stay there. You need to be willing to come into a full surrender with God and formally confess and renounce each of your sins.

I have found the following article very helpful to help me to restore my relationship with God. I would strongly recommend you to follow the prayers outlined in the article below and modify them to your particular circumstances even if you do not believe demons are involved:

www.bible-knowledge.com/prayer-legal-rights

  1. Confess each one of these sins direct to the Lord, apologize to the Lord for engaging in these sins for as long as they have, and then ask God, through the blood of His Son Jesus, to fully forgive them of these sins and to fully wash away the stain of these sins from their souls.
  2. Repent and renounce on each one of these sins. When you repent of a sin, you are telling God that you will never, ever go back to it again.
  3. Fully break and fully sever any ungodly soul ties if there were any other partners involved with them in any of the above sin areas.
 
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Invalidusername

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IUN, you're doing yourself a disfavor by relying on one single personal interpretation of one single verse, and I would contend (for your sake) that if we take the TOTAL contexts of all of the verses in the New Testament that pertain to "repentance," I think you'll see that it is something you decide to do.

In fact, the context of the verse you've cited has to to with a person's responding with God's assistance after being taught the truth. However, being given God's assistance through the Spirit doesn't mean He's going to supernaturally take away your temptations. No, what happens is He provides you the way, the truth and the life in Christ through other members of His Church.

So, to be free, you have to intermingle with other supportive Christians and allow your mind to be gradually transformed and renewed (not overnight) by God's direction and orchestration. It takes time, patience, and some redirection of your passions.

I do know though is that salvation is the work of God and that if God is not involved then salvation is not possible. Example: "all those who come to me are drawn by the father. Nobody can come to me unless the father draws them."

Supernatural power is usually involved when willful sins are involved for a lengthy period of time to draw us into deeper sins and to stay there.

I definitely agree with above statement. I was tormented by demons while I was living in the willful sins but I still get some torment even now but mostly with deep crippling fear of dying and going to hell. I have repented of my sins but I will continue to try and find something that I have not renounced. I'll read that article that you posted tomorrow. Don't like reading about demons before bed. I typically have bad dreams or panic attacks at night time if I do.
 
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Lily of Valleys

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I definitely agree with above statement. I was tormented by demons while I was living in the willful sins but I still get some torment even now but mostly with deep crippling fear of dying and going to hell. I have repented of my sins but I will continue to try and find something that I have not renounced. I'll read that article that you posted tomorrow. Don't like reading about demons before bed. I typically have bad dreams or panic attacks at night time if I do.
I have posted two links in my last post. It seems like they would be relevant to you. The bottom one is about dealing with the legal rights of demons while the top one is the prayers to break those legal rights. I agree not to read them at night. Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss.

Good night and have a good sleep.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I do know though is that salvation is the work of God and that if God is not involved then salvation is not possible. Example: "all those who come to me are drawn by the father. Nobody can come to me unless the father draws them."
Yes, this is true. But, where does the text specifically tell us "how" God draws us? Is it by some internal power in our mind that we feel drawn like a magnet? It can involve this, but this is not necessarily what being 'drawn' will always feel like. It's could also be that He's slowly bringing you through parts of your life through which you'll grow by having gone through them.

Besides, obviously you're here, talking to us, fellowshipping. That's undeniable, and despite the fact that you feel like you just don't have the strength and motivation to respond to God at the moment, you're still hanging around here. Why might this be the case, if not for the fact that you still chase hope in Christ, ay? :cool:
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I don't know. I try and try to have remorse. I know my sin broke my relationship with God and alienated Him from me. It's a head knowledge but I can't get my heart to follow.

Repentance is a gift of God.
Sounds like your heart got very hard from all that sin. Sounds like you need to beg God to soften your heart or open your eyes to see your sin as he sees it or plainly put, grant you grace to repent.

Sounds to me like he is after you or you wouldn't care but you must want this bad enough to be willing to do whatever it takes and endure as long as necessary until He has mercy and grants you repentance. You had the gift and threw it away for the pleasure of sin. Are you sorry for the consequences of sin now or sin itself? (Just questions for you to consider, not judgements and I do not want an answer.)
 
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