How can I come back from being apostate? (Hebrews 6)

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't know what type of willful sins you were involved with, but from my experience, there is usually some sin that has not been dealt with or renounced when relationship with God is not restored.

Supernatural power is usually involved when willful sins are involved for a lengthy period of time to draw us into deeper sins and to stay there. You need to be willing to come into a full surrender with God and formally confess and renounce each of your sins.

I have found the following article very helpful to help me to restore my relationship with God. I would strongly recommend you to follow the prayers outlined in the article below and modify them to your particular circumstances even if you do not believe demons are involved:

www.bible-knowledge.com/prayer-legal-rights

1. Confess each one of these sins direct to the Lord, apologize to the Lord for engaging in these sins for as long as they have, and then ask God, through the blood of His Son Jesus, to fully forgive them of these sins and to fully wash away the stain of these sins from their souls.
2. Repent and renounce on each one of these sins. When you repent of a sin, you are telling God that you will never, ever go back to it again.
3. Fully break and fully sever any ungodly soul ties if there were any other partners involved with them in any of the above sin areas.

www.bible-knowledge.com/dealing-with-the-legal-rights-of-demons​

The above is quite good but I would add an important point if you want to be free. In any of these sins involve people whom you sinned against, you must go to them and ask for forgiveness and make any restitution necessary. And sins that involved taking something you ought not to have done or any damage you caused that you can make right needs to be done. Only then will full grace be released and freedom experienced. We sin against man too and must ask forgiveness of those we sin against.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I've been praying for God to change my heart but it's not happening.

It is likely that you do not yet want it bad enough. And do not listen to anyone who tells you to essentially "do nothing and trust God" because that theology got you in this mess in the first place. "Sit back and trust God" is sometimes a spin on "be lazy" whereas the Bible clearly lays out our part. He will not make anyone repent. He opens eyes but if the person refuses to see becasue it hurts the pride, the light they had been given is removed.

You already know the truth that we can indeed lose our salvation so I would advise that you do not listen to anyone who tells you that this cannot happen and trys to put a positive spin on this because they cannot deal with the idea that they too can lose their salvation as you have done. You have suffered the consequences of deliberate and repeatedly chosen sin.

God is definately wanting you back, but you will have to suffer now the pains of being determined to become one of His now. That means there is no "praying but it is not happening" in your position. You need to tell yourself that you will pray and fast and weep and mourn until either He answer or you die. Are you willing to do that? You threw away the gift and if a man is truly sorry that he did this to the living God in reckless disregard for what He did for you, then he needs to tell himself that the price will be a lot higher to get the gift back than what it costs to receive it the first time.

The woman who came to Jesus to ask him to heal her daughter was not given an immediate "yes" but had to deeply humble herself associating herself with the dogs. She was likely a proud woman and she had to choose between her pride and love of her daughter. She chose well and did not accept "I asked but he did not answer" as the conclusion.

I am very confident that God will answer but I can clearly see why you are going to have to hate the sin you do and did and not merely hate the idea of going to Hell. And since you have no confidence Heaven is your home, this is very likely a warning from God that it is not...not yet.

How badly do you want Him to grant you repentance or grant you salvation or grant you forgiveness, whichever fits? How badly do you want this? I suspect that is the test and He is watching to see how badly you want Him to answer. He answered before and you threw it away for pleasure. Has that really changed, this is the question I suspect.

 

[Invalidusername]

It is likely that you do not yet want it bad enough. And do not listen to anyone who tells you to essentially "do nothing and trust God" because that theology got you in this mess in the first place. "Sit back and trust God" is sometimes a spin on "be lazy" whereas the Bible clearly lays out our part. He will not make anyone repent. He opens eyes but if the person refuses to see becasue it hurts the pride, the light they had been given is removed.

You already know the truth that we can indeed lose our salvation so I would advise that you do not listen to anyone who tells you that this cannot happen and trys to put a positive spin on this because they cannot deal with the idea that they too can lose their salvation as you have done. You have suffered the consequences of deliberate and repeatedly chosen sin.

God is definately wanting you back, but you will have to suffer now the pains of being determined to become one of His now. That means there is no "praying but it is not happening" in your position. You need to tell yourself that you will pray and fast and weep and mourn until either He answer or you die. Are you willing to do that? You threw away the gift and if a man is truly sorry that he did this to the living God in reckless disregard for what He did for you, then he needs to tell himself that the price will be a lot higher to get the gift back than what it costs to receive it the first time.

The woman who came to Jesus to ask him to heal her daughter was not given an immediate "yes" but had to deeply humble herself associating herself with the dogs. She was likely a proud woman and she had to choose between her pride and love of her daughter. She chose well and did not accept "I asked but he did not answer" as the conclusion.

I am very confident that God will answer but I can clearly see why you are going to have to hate the sin you do and did and not merely hate the idea of going to Hell. And since you have no confidence Heaven is your home, this is very likely a warning from God that it is not...not yet.

How badly do you want Him to grant you repentance or grant you salvation or grant you forgiveness, whichever fits? How badly do you want this? I suspect that is the test and He is watching to see how badly you want Him to answer. He answered before and you threw it away for pleasure. Has that really changed, this is the question I suspect.

Yeah I don't believe in OSAS garbage. That's what got me into this situation. I believed that no matter how much I sinned God would always chastise me until I repented so I took the back seat in my faith. Well one day bam the Holy Spirit leaves me and let me tell you when the Holy Spirit leaves you, you become so numb and reprobate. I have been given over to a reprobate mind, I struggle to understand spiritual things and it's incredible that the grace of God has enabled me to somehow search for repentance in this state. I know that it is only by the grace of God that I even want to repent.

I want to see and hate my sin but unfortunately Hebrews 6 is a thing. I wish Jesus had killed me instead of letting me fall away. I am such a stiff necked reprobate.

Also by your saying "I threw away the gift." Is not entirely correct. I never rejected Christ but rather resisted his promptings until he took it from me. I pushed the envelope believing in OSAS. I never rejected Christ and never wanted to. Just didn't want to cooperate with him at the time. There's a parable about the wicked servant that says "My master delayth his coming" and he gets drunk with wine. Jesus comes to him at an hour unknown to him and assigns him to the same place as an unbeliever. I think this parable is me.

Only the grace of God will grant me true repentance and hating my own sin. No efforts I put forth will change God's mind. But I will try anyways.

Thank you for your honesty and pay attention to Galatians. It says to turn a brother from his sins but to care of pride lest YOU may fall. Don't think that what I did is beyond you. All of us are capable of searing our conscience. Resist the Holy Spirit 1 time and then it gets easier to do it a 2nd time and so on.

 

[Invalidusername]

Yes, this is true. But, where does the text specifically tell us "how" God draws us? Is it by some internal power in our mind that we feel drawn like a magnet? It can involve this, but this is not necessarily what being 'drawn' will always feel like. It's could also be that He's slowly bringing you through parts of your life through which you'll grow by having gone through them.

Besides, obviously you're here, talking to us, fellowshipping. That's undeniable, and despite the fact that you feel like you just don't have the strength and motivation to respond to God at the moment, you're still hanging around here. Why might this be the case, if not for the fact that you still chase hope in Christ, ay?

I hope you're right. I hope I am saveable.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yeah I don't believe in OSAS garbage. That's what got me into this situation. I believed that no matter how much I sinned God would always chastise me until I repented so I took the back seat in my faith. Well one day bam the Holy Spirit leaves me and let me tell you when the Holy Spirit leaves you, you become so numb and reprobate. I have been given over to a reprobate mind, I struggle to understand spiritual things and it's incredible that the grace of God has enabled me to somehow search for repentance in this state. I know that it is only by the grace of God that I even want to repent.

I believe every word and your story is repeated by others I have heard. They believe in OSAS and neglected their salvation to the point where it was lost.

I want to see and hate my sin but unfortunately Hebrews 6 is a thing. I wish Jesus had killed me instead of letting me fall away. I am such a stiff necked reprobate.

If you let HEbrews 6 apply to you such that you do not seek Him with tears and fastings, you have lost already. Are you sure you are not using that as an excuse not to try? Trying will be painful and giving up is a lot less.

By the way, if you wanted God to take you before you fall away, you have to ask for that one. He will not take anyone away who does not ask for it. That is not how He works.

Also by your saying "I threw away the gift." Is not entirely correct. I never rejected Christ but rather resisted his promptings until he took it from me. I pushed the envelope believing in OSAS. I never rejected Christ and never wanted to. Just didn't want to cooperate with him at the time. There's a parable about the wicked servant that says "My master delayth his coming" and he gets drunk with wine. Jesus comes to him at an hour unknown to him and assigns him to the same place as an unbeliever. I think this parable is me.

When you knowingly choose to do that which He hates, you are throwing away the gift. If a woman fools around spending her time with other men, over the course of time (long or short) she is throwing away her marriage. It does not matter if she never actually tells her husband she doesn't want him, by choosing that which he hates, she is doing so. So you threw away your salvation when you chose what God hates. You prefered the pleasures of sin over the Word of God and God himself. THat is what Jesus said.

Yes I can see that those verses you select describe you. That happens for a time. Then the Master finally comes and it is over. That is what happened. You quenched the Holy SPirit enough and He left.

Only the grace of God will grant me true repentance and hating my own sin. No efforts I put forth will change God's mind. But I will try anyways.

If you do not demonstrate that you want it badly enough, He will not grant it. You took his love and salvation for granted last time with no effort put forth to curb your lusts. If you continue to take that easy and painless and frankly speaking, lazy road, I am very certain He will not grant you this. IT is easy to see why. You do not want it very badly. Have you ceased from sinning? Do you go to church now every Sunday? How will your wife feel about you joining a church? If you wait for God to make you feel like it, you will wait your whole life.

Thank you for your honesty and pay attention to Galatians. It says to turn a brother from his sins but to care of pride lest YOU may fall. Don't think that what I did is beyond you. All of us are capable of searing our conscience. Resist the Holy Spirit 1 time and then it gets easier to do it a 2nd time and so on.

Well, thank you for your willingness to read this. I am trying to speak in love for you. I do not see that God will ever grant you want you desire unless you spend the effort to seek it desperately, not casually.

I know what you want to say and it does not offend me in the last paragraph. I will let you alone now as what more can be said. But I am afraid I am way beyond the sin that you describe. What you did is not in the realm of possibility for me. I have walked decades with God, since I was a child and have been tempted but passed the test. How shall I put it? Reminds me of the man who traveled a lot in his work and one day someone asked him if he was ever tempted to cheat on his wife. He looked at the man and said, "that is like asking me if I would ever be tempted to steal a VW Bug while I have a Mercedes at home in the garage."

 

[Invalidusername]

I believe every word and your story is repeated by others I have heard. They believe in OSAS and neglected their salvation to the point where it was lost.
If you let HEbrews 6 apply to you such that you do not seek Him with tears and fastings, you have lost already. Are you sure you are not using that as an excuse not to try? Trying will be painful and giving up is a lot less.

By the way, if you wanted God to take you before you fall away, you have to ask for that one. He will not take anyone away who does not ask for it. That is not how He works.
When you knowingly choose to do that which He hates, you are throwing away the gift. If a woman fools around spending her time with other men, over the course of time (long or short) she is throwing away her marriage. It does not matter if she never actually tells her husband she doesn't want him, by choosing that which he hates, she is doing so. So you threw away your salvation when you chose what God hates. You prefered the pleasures of sin over the Word of God and God himself. THat is what Jesus said.

Yes I can see that those verses you select describe you. That happens for a time. Then the Master finally comes and it is over. That is what happened. You quenched the Holy SPirit enough and He left.
If you do not demonstrate that you want it badly enough, He will not grant it. You took his love and salvation for granted last time with no effort put forth to curb your lusts. If you continue to take that easy and painless and frankly speaking, lazy road, I am very certain He will not grant you this. IT is easy to see why. You do not want it very badly. Have you ceased from sinning? Do you go to church now every Sunday? How will your wife feel about you joining a church? If you wait for God to make you feel like it, you will wait your whole life.
Well, thank you for your willingness to read this. I am trying to speak in love for you. I do not see that God will ever grant you want you desire unless you spend the effort to seek it desperately, not casually.

I know what you want to say and it does not offend me in the last paragraph. I will let you alone now as what more can be said. But I am afraid I am way beyond the sin that you describe. What you did is not in the realm of possibility for me. I have walked decades with God, since I was a child and have been tempted but passed the test. How shall I put it? Reminds me of the man who traveled a lot in his work and one day someone asked him if he was ever tempted to cheat on his wife. He looked at the man and said, "that is like asking me if I would ever be tempted to steal a VW Bug while I have a Mercedes at home in the garage." No sin the enemy could offer would be anywhere close to the wonderful communication I enjoy with God. Frankly speaking, it all stinks compared to his sweet fellowship. So no, that kind of sinful life is beyond me now. I am grateful to be in that place.

I am doing everything I can. However YOU don't determine the criteria when God will take me back. I am doing everything I can. I go to church, I pray, I fast, and etc. I have stopped all of my sins. You even praised me for my own efforts in another thread but man's efforts are worthless. Only thing that can save us is Christ. I can beg and beg but if God says I'm gone then I'm gone. It doesn't mean I will stop serving God either way. Unfortunately everything is such a hard turmoil without the Holy Spirit. I have to force myself to do everything Godly. I force myself to put others before me. I force myself to pray. I force myself to abstain from sins. It's a constant battle without God's help and you could never comprehend the living hell this is.

Your pride and self righteousness rivals the pharisees. Even Paul was afraid of being disqualified. 1 Cor 9:27 "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize." You are NOT beyond this sin. Even King David was not. King David was afraid of God taking the Holy Spirit away from him and he was a man after God's own heart. You are a sinner before a righteous God. Humble yourself or He will do it for you.

 

[Strong in Him]

Hello Strong,
I do not believe the post was sincere or believable.read it again....do you believe it to be sincere?

I have no reason to believe it is not sincere, and am answering it as such.

If, at some point, the OP writes "ha, fooled you all; this is a joke", the worst that will happen is that I may feel foolish. I'd rather that, than find out it is real and genuine, but that I have not taken it as such and mocked a Christian brother.
As I said, if you felt it is not real, you could have refrained from saying anything. Or, if you needed the OP to know that in your opinion he was talking nonsense; messaged him privately.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am doing everything I can. However YOU don't determine the criteria when God will take me back. I am doing everything I can. I go to church, I pray, I fast, and etc. I have stopped all of my sins. You even praised me for my own efforts in another thread but man's efforts are worthless. Only thing that can save us is Christ. I can beg and beg but if God says I'm gone then I'm gone. It doesn't mean I will stop serving God either way. Unfortunately everything is such a hard turmoil without the Holy Spirit. I have to force myself to do everything Godly. I force myself to put others before me. I force myself to pray. I force myself to abstain from sins. It's a constant battle without God's help and you could never comprehend the living hell this is.

OK, I apologize. I forget and one corresponds with so many here.

God has certain ways that He does things and they are very consistant. We can find out these criteria and make choices accordingly. David knew these ways as did others who walked with God. I guess I would not be very quick at all to say God says you are gone. I do not think He does this until death which is final. His love is so great that He keeps seeking and does not give up finally. But it seems to me you can need of endurance.

And yes, I cannot imagine the difficulty and struggle you have. I do not pretend to do so. I can only guess it is very very difficult. But I am convinced that if you do not give up, He will reward you with what you seek. You have repented and ceased that sinful life. I suspect you will need to continue in this for a time.

Your pride and self righteousness rivals the pharisees. Even Paul was afraid of being disqualified. 1 Cor 9:27 "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize." You are NOT beyond this sin. Even King David was not. King David was afraid of God taking the Holy Spirit away from him and he was a man after God's own heart. You are a sinner before a righteous God. Humble yourself or He will do it for you.

Paul was not afraid of falling into grievous sin. Never. John was never afraid of falling into grievous sin. Jesus certainly was not, not once he had been tempted and had passed.

What Paul was speaking of was the high standard requred of him because of the high calling of God on his life. He wanted to finish the course set for him, and he did. He was certainly not walking in constant fear of losing it all through the pleasures of sin as you describe.

It is probably unusual to find a Christian these days who has walked with God over decades and never fell away into grievous sin, I guess. A believer who has been tempted and passed the test on these major sins that result in grievious loss is different than a younger Christian just starting out. It is really different. The life choices have been made. The crossroads were encountered and the right path chosen. The best example is a couple who have been married more than half of their lifetime and the closeness of that relationship cannot be matched by any fling that might tempt a younger person. They know they would not be tempted to lose that friendship, their best friend and over decades. There is no temptation that compares with that love and committment. This is done by atheists too, by the way. There are many marriages where neither partner strayed because of the love and committment in the relationship. How much more so when God is the partner!

 

[Invalidusername]

OK, I apologize. I forget and one corresponds with so many here.

God has certain ways that He does things and they are very consistant. We can find out these criteria and make choices accordingly. David knew these ways as did others who walked with God. I guess I would not be very quick at all to say God says you are gone. I do not think He does this until death which is final. His love is so great that He keeps seeking and does not give up finally. But it seems to me you can need of endurance.

And yes, I cannot imagine the difficulty and struggle you have. I do not pretend to do so. I can only guess it is very very difficult. But I am convinced that if you do not give up, He will reward you with what you seek. You have repented and ceased that sinful life. I suspect you will need to continue in this for a time.
Paul was not afraid of falling into grievous sin. Never. John was never afraid of falling into grievous sin. Jesus certainly was not, not once he had been tempted and had passed.

What Paul was speaking of was the high standard requred of him because of the high calling of God on his life. He wanted to finish the course set for him, and he did. He was certainly not walking in constant fear of losing it all through the pleasures of sin as you describe.

It is probably unusual to find a Christian these days who has walked with God over decades and never fell away into grievous sin, I guess. A believer who has been tempted and passed the test on these major sins that result in grievious loss is different than a younger Christian just starting out. It is really different. The life choices have been made. The crossroads were encountered and the right path chosen. The best example is a couple who have been married more than half of their lifetime and the closeness of that relationship cannot be matched by any fling that might tempt a younger person. They know they would not be tempted to lose that friendship, their best friend and over decades. There is no temptation that compares with that love and committment. This is done by atheists too, by the way. There are many marriages where neither partner strayed because of the love and committment in the relationship. How much more so when God is the partner!

I appreciate your posts. I am just so disappointed that I messed up so bad. I got blind and my mind darkened. I was very angry and bitter person before I was saved and I allowed that to creep back into my life when circumstances turned against me. It's like I woke up recently and all of a sudden realized what I had done. I wish I had never been born often. There's nothing worse than having the best thing ever given to you and then losing it. I don't know if I am saveable but I will keep trying. It's hard sometimes because if there's no hope it's hard to keep up the effort. Some days I can't even get out of bed and can't even function. I know you think it's hard to fall away but it's actually incredibly easy or at least it was for me. I can't even pinpoint exactly where it all started. It all was so gradual and crept into my life unnoticed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I hope that i only suffer in this life for what I have done. If i do somehow come out of this, the Lord will use me to set many free from the bondage i'm experiencing.

My hope is others read this and it sets them free from the OSAS lie so they realize that they too can go down the path you did if they do not take care. I think your thread and OP a great blessing to the church, frankly speaking. Your honesty is a warning.

 

[Strong in Him]

That isn't the point. The point is relationship. You might love someone who betrays you, but you do not have a healthy loving relationship with them. In my example, you do not have a marriage.

No. But my point was that you can't always "turn off" love.
You may say "our marriage is through", or want it to be, or scream or shout because you hate the other person's behaviour. But I don't believe it is possible to say "I'll only love you IF .....".
This is what you appear to be saying about God - that he will only love us IF - we keep his commands, listen to him or whatever. I'm saying that God loved us and sent his Son to die for us when we were sinners, didn't believe in him and had done nothing good.

And if we do not repent and believe we will perish away from that love. Again, we are talking relationship, not merely getting. And parents truly love their children, at least a lot of them and they put A LOT of conditions of them BECAUSE they love them. God disciplines us for our good and that is putting conditions on us.

I realise that God disciplines us; I realise he has a plan for our lives, wants us to do his will and so on. I realise there are times he may say 'no, you cannot do that/that isn't for you".
All I am saying is that he does not withdraw his love if/when we mess up. We may not be close to him or in fellowship with him for a while - but if we disobey his commands, he still loves us.

Jesus said he knows that we love God when we obey God. No word about him first loving us and then we do.

Jesus didn't say this, no; John did.

I know for a fact that when I think of God's love, how much he has done for me, helped, forgiven, stayed with me and just been there - time after time, even though I was unreceptive and did nothing to deserve such patience and mercy - my love for him increases.
"We love because he first loved us", 1 John 4:19.
God is love, is eternal and his love came first. He created us, in love. He saved us, in love. He wants us to be his children, because he loves us. When we think of this, how much love he has and how he loves us unconditionally; we will respond in love - I believe.

Non Christians, or Christians who haven't received God's love, may still do good things, help others etc. They may not be doing it from love for God, though, but from fear.
I know that there's a BIG difference between when I was a teenager doing things for God because I wanted to impress him - I didn't believe he loved me, but maybe I could win his approval; and doing things now out of love and gratitude.
To others, it may seem that I am doing all of the same things - but I know, and the Lord knows, that my attitude and motives are completely different.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I appreciate your posts. I am just so disappointed that I messed up so bad. I got blind and my mind darkened. I was very angry and bitter person before I was saved and I allowed that to creep back into my life when circumstances turned against me. It's like I woke up recently and all of a sudden realized what I had done. I wish I had never been born often. There's nothing worse than having the best thing ever given to you and then losing it. I don't know if I am saveable but I will keep trying. It's hard sometimes because if there's no hope it's hard to keep up the effort. Some days I can't even get out of bed and can't even function. I know you think it's hard to fall away but it's actually incredibly easy or at least it was for me. I can't even pinpoint exactly where it all started. It all was so gradual and crept into my life unnoticed.

I think it is incredibly easy to fall away. It is harder to endure to the end. I can imagine your struggle is unbelievable.

You are saveable. I agree with everyone here who wrote that because you are writing here, that you are trying, that God is drawing you. I think He is in your life and working to get you back, but you have a harder road now than before, as you already know.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No. But my point was that you can't always "turn off" love.
You may say "our marriage is through", or want it to be, or scream or shout because you hate the other person's behaviour. But I don't believe it is possible to say "I'll only love you IF .....".
This is what you appear to be saying about God - that he will only love us IF - we keep his commands, listen to him or whatever. I'm saying that God loved us and sent his Son to die for us when we were sinners, didn't believe in him and had done nothing good.

That is not what I am saying. I am saying actually that love has demands upon the beloved for the sake of relationship. I know a couple, for example, who exercised very tough love and booted their starting into big crime son out of the house. The son did not speak to his parents for 2 years. But that act probably saved his life. The son realized that if you want to eat, you need to work and stealing brings a whole kind of life he did not want. So their love and separating themselves from him, not their love, just their presence, saved him. You are missing the requirement of relationship that are obvious in and every single loving relationship on earth and in Heaven.

When a couple marry, there are requirements on each of them that were not there beforehand. THis is accepted as part of a loving relationship. Do you see what I mean? Understanding the relationship means conditions must be met does not mean there is no love.

Jesus dies for us. That is love for sure. But there are requirements for that love and resulting salvation to be applied to us. Do you agree? Doesn't change his love but means that a real relationship is a two way street. One side cannot do all the giving and the other all the taking.

I realise that God disciplines us; I realise he has a plan for our lives, wants us to do his will and so on. I realise there are times he may say 'no, you cannot do that/that isn't for you".
All I am saying is that he does not withdraw his love if/when we mess up. We may not be close to him or in fellowship with him for a while - but if we disobey his commands, he still loves us.

God loves every single person in hell. DO you agree? Do you see then that God loving does not mean He suspends all conditions for relationship with him?

God so loved the world that He gave.... Most of the world will end up in hell. Does not change God's love for them but His love does not change the conditions for relationship. The pure in heart shall see God. Does not mean God does not love those who are not.

Jesus didn't say this, no; John did.

INcorrect. Jesus said that. He said, "Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."" Jesus said that. You really should watch editing out passages that you do not like. You said some words of JEsus were the old covenant and therefore did not apply to you. I would caution you not to do this.

I know for a fact that when I think of God's love, how much he has done for me, helped, forgiven, stayed with me and just been there - time after time, even though I was unreceptive and did nothing to deserve such patience and mercy - my love for him increases.
"We love because he first loved us", 1 John 4:19.
God is love, is eternal and his love came first. He created us, in love. He saved us, in love. He wants us to be his children, because he loves us. When we think of this, how much love he has and how he loves us unconditionally; we will respond in love - I believe.

That sounds really nice but you above have decided some of the words of the Bible, the uncomfortable ones, are not for you. That is not expressing much love and trust for him if you decide you do not want some of the things he taught. I know the feelings are there, but the mind needs to accept what Jesus said even if not what one wants to hear. Btw, do you think the Gospel of John is not telling the truth in some places? That is, speech he reported Jesus as saying, Jesus never said? Sounds like it.

Non Christians, or Christians who haven't received God's love, may still do good things, help others etc. They may not be doing it from love for God, though, but from fear.

The ones I see do it because it is a nice thing to do. I do not recall any atheist helping anyone else out of fear.

I know that there's a BIG difference between when I was a teenager doing things for God because I wanted to impress him - I didn't believe he loved me, but maybe I could win his approval; and doing things now out of love and gratitude.
To others, it may seem that I am doing all of the same things - but I know, and the Lord knows, that my attitude and motives are completely different.

I applaud you for your honestly and humility here. Not everyone is like that though.

 

[Invalidusername]

I think it is incredibly easy to fall away. It is harder to endure to the end. I can imagine your struggle is unbelievable.

You are saveable. I agree with everyone here who wrote that because you are writing here, that you are trying, that God is drawing you. I think He is in your life and working to get you back, but you have a harder road now than before, as you already know.

Btw I realised you were talking to me thinking I'm OP. I'm just another guy who had a similar experience as OP although less extreme.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Btw I realised you were talking to me thinking I'm OP. I'm just another guy who had a similar experience as OP although less extreme.

Sorry, I got you mixed up. My apologies. He is Curtis.

 

[lsume]

It is likely that you do not yet want it bad enough. And do not listen to anyone who tells you to essentially "do nothing and trust God" because that theology got you in this mess in the first place. "Sit back and trust God" is sometimes a spin on "be lazy" whereas the Bible clearly lays out our part. He will not make anyone repent. He opens eyes but if the person refuses to see becasue it hurts the pride, the light they had been given is removed.

You already know the truth that we can indeed lose our salvation so I would advise that you do not listen to anyone who tells you that this cannot happen and trys to put a positive spin on this because they cannot deal with the idea that they too can lose their salvation as you have done. You have suffered the consequences of deliberate and repeatedly chosen sin.

God is definately wanting you back, but you will have to suffer now the pains of being determined to become one of His now. That means there is no "praying but it is not happening" in your position. You need to tell yourself that you will pray and fast and weep and mourn until either He answer or you die. Are you willing to do that? You threw away the gift and if a man is truly sorry that he did this to the living God in reckless disregard for what He did for you, then he needs to tell himself that the price will be a lot higher to get the gift back than what it costs to receive it the first time.

The woman who came to Jesus to ask him to heal her daughter was not given an immediate "yes" but had to deeply humble herself associating herself with the dogs. She was likely a proud woman and she had to choose between her pride and love of her daughter. She chose well and did not accept "I asked but he did not answer" as the conclusion.

I am very confident that God will answer but I can clearly see why you are going to have to hate the sin you do and did and not merely hate the idea of going to Hell. And since you have no confidence Heaven is your home, this is very likely a warning from God that it is not...not yet.

How badly do you want Him to grant you repentance or grant you salvation or grant you forgiveness, whichever fits? How badly do you want this? I suspect that is the test and He is watching to see how badly you want Him to answer. He answered before and you threw it away for pleasure. Has that really changed, this is the question I suspect.

Read Romans 1 and I think you will find that there is a point when God The Father will allow a person to become reprobate.

 

[Richard T]

Delivering someone to the Enemy is something those in authority can do. One cannot do this for oneself for observing. I have heard of those who ASKED God to take their life instead of letting them go to hell if in the future they would fall away and be lost. But I believe one has to ask God for this. I do not think He does so otherwise. He did not do so for Judas or others who fell away so to be fair, he does not do it for anyone who does not ask.

A pastor who has exercised this, giving to Satan, says they usually repent and become restored believers again. IT is pretty dire but it seems to have an effect. But again, we have to ask for this. God does not do it on his own. If he did, no one would ever fall away and all the warnings Jesus and the apostles gave against falling away would make no sense.

"Stand up to who you are in Christ, repent, take full forgiveness and start moving into God."

THis is what I mean by "name it claim it" theology. There is no standing up and taking forgiveness from God same as one does not march into the room of someone one has wronged and "take" forgiveness from them. Frankly speaking this is the height of pride. God no longer grants it or not,...no no...you simply take the fruit and bite it insisting it is yours. How proud!! Same with demanding we are somebody special to God in CHrist when we are really a scumbag in our sin. The man who humbled himself before God was acquited of sin, not the man who proudly walked up and took forgiveness thinking he was somebody worthy of such. God opposes the proud. Demanding forgiveness is pretty prideful.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I am doing everything I can. I go to church, I pray, I fast, and etc. I have stopped all of my sins. You even praised me for my own efforts in another thread but man's efforts are worthless. Only thing that can save us is Christ. I can beg and beg but if God says I'm gone then I'm gone. It doesn't mean I will stop serving God either way. Unfortunately everything is such a hard turmoil without the Holy Spirit. I have to force myself to do everything Godly. I force myself to put others before me. I force myself to pray. I force myself to abstain from sins. It's a constant battle without God's help and you could never comprehend the living hell this is.

I believe you are on the right track. Just persevere and do not give up hope. God is a merciful God (Psalm 145:8-9).

When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it. (Jonah 3:10 NASB)​

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. (John 14:23 NASB)​

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Read Romans 1 and I think you will find that there is a point when God The Father will allow a person to become reprobate.

I agree. Not sure if these care anymore. Curtis cares. The others probably don’t come to Christians to get help.

 

[Richard T]

Taking full forgiveness is not demanding it. It is simply exercising faith in God's word, that if you ask (I would think anyone caught in sin would always ask humbly, though of course some may not have truly repented but are just going through the motions) that God will grant the request.

As to turning one over to Satan, yes someone in leadership typically would instigate this but what about someone without a Pastor? Certainly, it might be possible that God would do the same thing. Anyway, lots of implications here, the finer points probably not too relevant with the main thing having any believer get back into fellowship with God.