How can I come back from being apostate? (Hebrews 6)

[Dorothy Mae]

Can you please find out the pastor or mans name? That sounds exactly like my story

Well, the pastor is in Australia so I do not think you will be able to visit. The man's name he did not give out of respect for the man. But I met him once at a seminar and will write him and ask if you can contact him via email or whatever.

 

[Curtis697]

Well, the pastor is in Australia so I do not think you will be able to visit. The man's name he did not give out of respect for the man. But I met him once at a seminar and will write him and ask if you can contact him via email or whatever.

I had looking him up on youtube in mind.

 

[Dave L]

I don't believe i was ever truly saved

I don't think you were either. But the good news is, whoever believes in Jesus has eternal life. If you believe this, I think you do, then simply follow his teaching and make him Lord of your thoughts and actions. God is love, and Jesus is God, so He is Lord when love refines our thoughts and determines our course of action.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I want to live in sin. But i know the end result. I want to have the desire to live for Jesus.

There had been a long period of time God let me taste how it felt like to be without light but only darkness, without God but only Satan. But God had never forsaken me, He came to seek me out even though I resented Him for destroying the idol I had in my life and turned my back on Him for years. After that experience, I don't ever want to be back there to be without God again.

Choosing to live in sin is to have a bondage to Satan. You need to surrender yourself to God. That includes your life, your idols, and your sins. Let God release you from your bondage to sin, so that sins will no longer be attractive to you.

Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. (James 4:7-8 NASB)​

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I had looking him up on youtube in mind.

OK, I will find the piece where he talks about that guy.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't think you were either. But the good news is, whoever believes in Jesus has eternal life. If you believe this, I think you do, then simply follow his teaching and make him Lord of your thoughts and actions. God is love, and Jesus is God, so He is Lord when love refines our thoughts and determines our course of action.

The description of his life tells me he was truly saved. He was like the earth that accepted the seed and rejoiced for a while and bore fruit, only to have the pleasures of this world choke out the seed, the Word of God, in his life and it died. That descriptions fits his story. Someone who was never saved to begin with doesn't have that kind of experience and sensitivity to God. It is true, the pleasures of this world can choke out the seed in one's life.

 

[Dave L]

The description of his life tells me he was truly saved. He was like the earth that accepted the seed and rejoiced for a while and bore fruit, only to have the pleasures of this world choke out the seed, the Word of God, in his life and it died. That descriptions fits his story. Someone who was never saved to begin with doesn't have that kind of experience and sensitivity to God. It is true, the pleasures of this world can choke out the seed in one's life.

“For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4–5)

 

[Richard T]

On a practical level, I once thought I was apostate. Ok, so I thought I was going to hell. What to do next? I simply decided to serve God even if I was going to hell. Better than serving Satan. Fortunately, I got hold of a series called the Sin Unto Death, from Pastor Bob Yandian. He presented how a believer, caught up in gross sin may end up dying an early death. The biblical example is found in
1 Corinthians 5:5 (KJV) 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Most believe later that this person was restored.
2 Corinthians 2:5-8 (KJV)
5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all. 6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. 7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. 8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

This gives some logic to have a less strict interpretation of Hebrews 6. I am not advocating death, though you have been close. If you were going to be a cast out apostate, I think God would have just killed you, that your spirit would be saved too. That you seek to repent would disqualify you from being one found in Heb 6 or the man in I Cor. under the sin unto death.

As to your marriage and all those visions/signs that you had. It could very well be that some fo those were false. The devil would love to trick you so that you feel incomplete or out of joint. Not only have you lost your helmet of salvation, but in the back of your mind your faith will never be strong because you married a specific women? Get behind thee Satan.
Proverbs 18:22 (KJV) 22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Stand up to who you are in Christ, repent, take full forgiveness and start moving into God. Cut yourself some slack too in your giftings. Without love they are basically useless anyway, concentrate on your foundation, and take it slow. Don't be like Joseph bragging about your dreams (calling) I would also suggest you seek further deliverance or at a minimum find some men of God who can help you on your path.
James 5:14-15 (KJV)
14 Is any sick (weak) among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

God Bless

 

[Dorothy Mae]

“For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4–5)

"Take care that no one deceives YOU" Jesus. Hummm possible to be deceived and thereby not overcome the world. The above reference in 1 John is not set in concrete.

It sure would be a lot better if those who insist all believers who do overcome the world are really born of God such that the measure is no longer merely believing (agreeing) but actually overcoming the world. That is, if a believer has not overcome the world, they are not yet born of God. But this is something no one who does name it claim it theology does.

What happens is, being a believer is defined by giving verbal agreement. That it is all sealed. But if someone falls in to sin, as this poster does, well then they are not a true believer. Why? Because they did not over come. But the definition of true believer is not overcoming but merely agreeing with some particulars points. So it is easy and cheap "in" whereby you are not supposed to be able to sin, b ut if you sin, it either doesn't matter or you did not overcome so you are not a believer. The latter is for other people. The self chooses the former. The goal are rubber running all over the field.

 

[akaDaScribe]

Please explain more

Someone else pointed out that the name of the Prophet was Hosea. It is probably worth reading. The point is that God does take people back even when they have gone around whoring themselves. He values us that much. Obviously it impacts the relationship and if you look at it as a free pass to abuse the relationship, then the relationship will end at some point.

But it sounds to me like you need to start a new page with God. One where you are more interested in loving him back and not just interested having him meet your needs. I'm not trying to come down on you. I'm trying to show you where the problem lies, at least from what I can see.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

On a practical level, I once thought I was apostate. Ok, so I thought I was going to hell. What to do next? I simply decided to serve God even if I was going to hell. Better than serving Satan. Fortunately, I got hold of a series called the Sin Unto Death, from Pastor Bob Yandian. He presented how a believer, caught up in gross sin may end up dying an early death. The biblical example is found in
1 Corinthians 5:5 (KJV) 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Most believe later that this person was restored.
2 Corinthians 2:5-8 (KJV)
5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all. 6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. 7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. 8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

This gives some logic to have a less strict interpretation of Hebrews 6. I am not advocating death, though you have been close. If you were going to be a cast out apostate, I think God would have just killed you, that your spirit would be saved too. That you seek to repent would disqualify you from being one found in Heb 6 anyway.

As to your marriage and all those visions/signs that you had. It could very well be that some fo those were false. The devil would love to trick you so that you feel incomplete or out of joint. Not only have you lost your helmet of salvation, but in the back of your mind your faith will never be strong because you married a specific women? Get behind thee Satan.
Proverbs 18:22 (KJV) 22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Stand up to who you are in Christ, repent, take full forgiveness and start moving into God. Cut yourself some slack too in your giftings. Without love they are basically useless anyway, concentrate on your foundation, and take it slow. Don't be like Joseph bragging about your dreams (calling) I would also suggest you seek further deliverance or at a minimum find some men of God who can help you on your path.
James 5:14-15 (KJV)
14 Is any sick (weak) among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

God Bless

Delivering someone to the Enemy is something those in authority can do. One cannot do this for oneself for observing. I have heard of those who ASKED God to take their life instead of letting them go to hell if in the future they would fall away and be lost. But I believe one has to ask God for this. I do not think He does so otherwise. He did not do so for Judas or others who fell away so to be fair, he does not do it for anyone who does not ask.

A pastor who has exercised this, giving to Satan, says they usually repent and become restored believers again. IT is pretty dire but it seems to have an effect. But again, we have to ask for this. God does not do it on his own. If he did, no one would ever fall away and all the warnings Jesus and the apostles gave against falling away would make no sense.

"Stand up to who you are in Christ, repent, take full forgiveness and start moving into God."

THis is what I mean by "name it claim it" theology. There is no standing up and taking forgiveness from God same as one does not march into the room of someone one has wronged and "take" forgiveness from them. Frankly speaking this is the height of pride. God no longer grants it or not,...no no...you simply take the fruit and bite it insisting it is yours. How proud!! Same with demanding we are somebody special to God in CHrist when we are really a scumbag in our sin. The man who humbled himself before God was acquited of sin, not the man who proudly walked up and took forgiveness thinking he was somebody worthy of such. God opposes the proud. Demanding forgiveness is pretty prideful.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Someone else pointed out that the name of the Prophet was Hosea. It is probably worth reading. The point is that God does take people back even when they have gone around whoring themselves. He values us that much. Obviously it impacts the relationship and if you look at it as a free pass to abuse the relationship, then the relationship will end at some point.

But it sounds to me like you need to start a new page with God. One where you are more interested in loving him back and not just interested having him meet your needs. I'm not trying to come down on you. I'm trying to show you where the problem lies, at least from what I can see.

Sometimes He does not. Sometimes he lets the earth open up and swallow them. Sometimes he lets them walk away. This Jesus did more than once. I repeat, the father of the prodigal son did NOT go after the boy. He did nothing whatsoever to save him. The boy had to return on his own.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, that's works.
That would be saying, "my love, grace, salvation, promises are dependant upon YOU doing YOUR bit."

It’s more like the bride saying “I’ll love you as long as you dont start dating other women and sleeping with them.

God loves because he is love. He shows grace, mercy, kindness etc because he is all those things. He sent Jesus to die for sinners - godless, wicked, death deserving sinners, Romans 6:23; Romans 5:8.

“He who loves me keeps my teaching and HIM the Fsther loves and we will come and dwell in him.”

Read your own story and look at how many times he spoke to you, prompted you - like to put on your motorcycle helmet - gave visions through a friend, and so on. You yourself have testified to being overwhelmed with his love, ignoring it and going off to sin, only for him to speak to you again.

I think you probably ARE in his hand, but have chosen to turn your back on him and say "I need to figure out for myself how to see his face."
Try turning round - which is what repentance is; turning away from sin. Don't look at sin, look at your heavenly Father.

So repentance of the sin happens without noticing it? Those who repent see their sin clearly and don’t put a positive spin on the whole thing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I first want to start by requesting that you'll only answer if you have a solid foundation on bible doctrines. Saying to me, "well that doesn't apply to you because God is love He wouldn't send you to hell; or well you care so you're saved;" will not help at all, nor is biblically sound. I desperately need help, but I need the help to be correct..

I grew up in a Christian home. It was forced on me by my parents, so naturally I rebelled against it in my teenage years. I became an, "atheist." Well one day, when I just turned 18, my football coach offered salvation through Jesus Christ to me. I declined, but due to circumstances set up by God, accepted his offer a week later. I chose to believe in Jesus Christ as savior, but He was not yet Lord. But God did deliver me from the insurmountable situation. I have been told my whole life that I have a Call of God on my life.

God called me to bible college in 2013, and I obeyed Him and went. There, I was heavily trained in Bible Theology, as well as ministry. I received hands-on experience with how to be used by the Holy Ghost as a vessel. I preached to people, was persecuted, saw demons manifest in people around me when I preached the gospel. (Even had a posessed guy punch me in the face) laid hands on the sick and saw miraculous healings, ect. (even saw a broken bone snap back into play with a loud, "pop" sound.)
The problem was that It was never truly about the Lord to me. I wanted to marry a girl that went to the college with me. She was an idol to me, and I never truly put God before her. I would only serve God with her in mind as the end result. It was never about the Lord Jesus Christ.

By the end of my time in the bible college in 2015, she decided to be with someone else, whom she is to this day married to. I left the bible college as well as the call of God on my life. I said to God, something to the extent of, "Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, I'm done with you."
I then began sinning intentionally with the specific intent and purpose of silencing the voice of the Holy Ghost in my heart. Since then, I have slept with 30 women, and have fallen into a more sinful state than I ever was previously in. 7 times worse sounds about right.

Since then, I have found myself in a place of absolute despair. I have found no place in my heart for repentance of any sort. I feel no sorrow for my sins, cannot hear from God, continue living a wicked lifestyle.. ect. I'm telling you, I cannot seem to break through this problem. I cry out day and night, but my heart remains wicked. If i'm honest, I only care because I know hell is at stake.

I can almost believe with certainty that nobody currently alive has studied Hebrews 6 more than I have. I have read what seems to be every commentary, every translation, and every interpretation many times over. I probably have, without exaggeration, put 100 hours study into Hebrews 6:4-6. I know the Calvanist, Armenian, and pretty much every other interpretation, as well as the flaws behind them.
The only interpretation that is completely flawed throughout is the one that says, "the writer is describing that it is impossible to fall away and lose your salvation." - the bible does not speak in such complex verbiage. It is made to where the simple minded can understand. I'm no slouch when it comes to the English Language, but trying to read it in the way they describe is completely confusing and asinine.

That being said, I have decided, based on 100 hours of research that this verse means either one of two things.

1. If a person is indulged in the things of God to the extent that I was, and does not backslide, but rather consciously turns their back on the faith.. then it is impossible that they, under any circumstance, ever return to repentance. It's not that God wouldn't forgive them if they did, but rather that their hearts will never be able to be changed, due to their prior exposal to the things of God.

2. If a person falls away after being in the fulness of the things of God, then it is impossible for any man to lead them back to the way of righteousness. (There are numerous scriptures in the NT talking about leading people going astray, back to repentance.) This interpretation says that BECAUSE they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh, it is impossible. They cannot be reasoned with. But if they decide to, then they can come back.
I truly do not know which one of these is correct.

Does anybody have anything that I have missed? Does anybody have insight or a first hand experience related to this? All answered are greatly appreciated.



If you have read enough and just want answer the quick question, then stop here.. but i'm going to further expand on the backstory in this situation, to show you how crazy it really is if you keep reading.


6 months after leaving bible college, I got into a motorcycle accident that almost killed me. Before leaving the house that night, I felt something nudging at me as if insisting me to put on my motorcycle helmet, which i never would normally wear. My life was spared because of that.
In the hospital, I felt what I believed to be the presence of God, flooding the hospital room. It was to the point where even a single thought about God would make me begin weeping uncontrollably. I can't say that I've had such easy access to His presence in my lifetime.
However, in the hospital, I decided that when I recovered, I would go back into the world, once more. And so I did. This time, darker and deeper than before.

What are your thoughts? Does Hebrews 6 describe the reason why I keep falling back into darkness, and just have not been able to truly repent?
Please, any advice is helpful. God bless.

That’s is truly an amazing testimony brother. In answer of your question pertaining to Hebews 6:4 I have come to the conclusion that your second interpretation according to what we know about Jesus’ forgiveness makes the most sense. I think the key words are it is impossible to bring back to repentance. I believe Paul is saying it is impossible for someone to guide a person who has fallen back to repentance because they can’t produce and further evidence that the fallen person doesn’t already know. Once the fallen person has partaken in the Holy Spirit he is sealed with the Holy Spirit and I believe The Spirit will continue to work in that person even against the person’s will. They will never fully lose the feeling of conviction by the Holy Spirit. You knowing the gospel will forever have God’s message in you.

As for why you keep falling back into darkness that’s a tough question. A number of things could be causing this but according to your testimony I think it is evident that the Spirit is working on you. If you earnestly seek and knock I am confident you will find and the door will be opened and God is faithful to complete what He has begun in you. Just don’t give up brother and keep praying and seeking God always and I guarantee God will put you back on the path to salvation. Perhaps God has sent you to bring your wife along with you in your journey. Perhaps the vision was not about being with your wife but instead the path you were both on at the time. I will pray for you and your wife. God bless you both.

 

[Bobber]

I want to live in sin. But i know the end result. I want to have the desire to live for Jesus.

I'd contend you don't want to live in sin. You've admitted it scares you. It seems you want an existence where you never have a bad thought of temptation and if you do you define that as your true desire and go under condemnation. The devil has played that trick yes on multitude of Christians and have defeated them.

You've said you know the end result and that scares you about sin. So what's wrong with that? Well yes you can listen to various preachers who'll try to tell you that if you're motivation to serve God is due to fear then you're off base.

Absolute nonsense! Paul the Apostle warned repeatedly about the one who would come to judge Acts 17 and Jesus inspired people with some very sobering thoughts about what the future holds as well meant to inspire people to get their lives right with God.

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Acts 17:31

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2 Pt 3:11

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family. Heb 11:8

We're not called like Noah to build an Ark but we are called to build and develop a relationship with God. Noah built the Ark out of a godly fear and reverence of God. Why don't you build your relationship with God therefore out of the same motivation? So you've said you have fear about the end results of sin? Why can't you translate that as a desire to serve Jesus? Would Jesus mind that you do that? I think not. Other motivations will come but why not go with what you've got. If you're sincere God will develop you with other motivations as well

 

[Curtis697]

That’s is truly an amazing testimony brother. In answer of your question pertaining to Hebews 6:4 I have come to the conclusion that your second interpretation according to what we know about Jesus’ forgiveness makes the most sense. I think the key words are it is impossible to bring back to repentance. I believe Paul is saying it is impossible for someone to guide a person who has fallen back to repentance because they can’t produce and further evidence that the fallen person doesn’t already know. Once the fallen person has partaken in the Holy Spirit he is sealed with the Holy Spirit and I believe The Spirit will continue to work in that person even against the person’s will. They will never fully lose the feeling of conviction by the Holy Spirit. You knowing the gospel will forever have God’s message in you.

As for why you keep falling back into darkness that’s a tough question. A number of things could be causing this but according to your testimony I think it is evident that the Spirit is working on you. If you earnestly seek and knock I am confident you will find and the door will be opened and God is faithful to complete what He has begun in you. Just don’t give up brother and keep praying and seeking God always and I guarantee God will put you back on the path to salvation. Perhaps God has sent you to bring your wife along with you in your journey. Perhaps the vision was not about being with your wife but instead the path you were both on at the time. I will pray for you and your wife. God bless you both.

Actually you're spot on. When I said that I believe that God told me He would allow me to marry her, I also felt that the vision represented the path we were heading down.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Curtis 697, I sent you a link privately. I am listeing to it now and I think this applies to you.

 

[Strong in Him]

It’s more like the bride saying “I’ll love you as long as you dont start dating other women and sleeping with them.

Some people love even when their spouses start fooling around.
Some kids love their parents, even though they may be abusive.

Love is love. True love doesn't put conditions on something/someone. Jesus died for us when we were sinners.

“He who loves me keeps my teaching and HIM the Fsther loves and we will come and dwell in him.”

Jesus gave us a new command to love as he loves us. He loved us when we were godless sinners.
We cannot have this kind of Agape love unless we have first received it ourselves - Scripture says "we love because he first loved us.
So we cannot keep his teaching and command to love, unless we have received his love and have him dwelling in us; and when we have him in us we will receive more of his love and so be able to love others.

I
So repentance of the sin happens without noticing it? Those who repent see their sin clearly and don’t put a positive spin on the whole thing.

Who said anything about wither repenting without noticing it, or "putting a positive spin" on things?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Some people love even when their spouses start fooling around.
Some kids love their parents, even though they may be abusive.

That isn't the point. The point is relationship. You might love someone who betrays you, but you do not have a healthy loving relationship with them. In my example, you do not have a marriage.

Love is love. True love doesn't put conditions on something/someone. Jesus died for us when we were sinners.

And if we do not repent and believe we will perish away from that love. Again, we are talking relationship, not merely getting. And parents truly love their children, at least a lot of them and they put A LOT of conditions of them BECAUSE they love them. God disciplines us for our good and that is putting conditions on us.

Jesus gave us a new command to love as he loves us. He loved us when we were godless sinners.
We cannot have this kind of Agape love unless we have first received it ourselves - Scripture says "we love because he first loved us.
So we cannot keep his teaching and command to love, unless we have received his love and have him dwelling in us; and when we have him in us we will receive more of his love and so be able to love others.

If we wait to be motivated to obey Him, we do not understand how humans work and how the heart sometimes does not want to do what the person has ultimately promised to do.

The best example is a mother loves her infant son but that does not mean she does NOT want to get up every 4 hours and feed him being dead tired. Nevertheless, the will makes the body do it. On one level she wants to, but at the moment she sure would prefer to sleep.

Just so, there are times when one who has promised to love Jesus needs to make the body do through pure will, what the decision was made when emotions where high. All good marriages that last must go through carrying out the vows when the will is not particularly there.

One can receive his love and do nothing at all. A lot of people do this. They take and take in life. Receiving does not mean automatically giving. It does not happen if we do not choose it.

Who said anything about wither repenting without noticing it, or "putting a positive spin" on things?

Some people think the Holy Spirit is working in them while they sleep as it were. They are "waiting" for some love or whatever to be put in them so they stgart to obey.

Jesus said he knows that we love God when we obey God. No word about him first loving us and then we do. He just said if we love God we keep his teaching. That is the measure. How it starts is not as important as that it is happening.

 

[lsume]

I hope that i only suffer in this life for what I have done. If i do somehow come out of this, the Lord will use me to set many free from the bondage i'm experiencing.

I apologize for continuing this but why again do you think that you will bring many to Christ? For what you have done in the past, you will suffer for a time appointed by God The Father. However, after sufficient scourging and chastising, I believe that you will have grown a great deal in Christ. Patience training is difficult. Since Christ can pull away from you and then get close to you according to The Will of God The Father many times per day, you learn quickly that you are at His Mercy. When the day comes that you can be set free, you will appreciate it much more while warning others not to take Salvation for granted. I’ve used the following analogy; when you lift weights and get tired to stop. When Christ is training you in longsuffering and patience, you have no control over how long Christ might have you endure. The key point here is to endure and to thank God The Father for what you have. I also have cried many tears as a dog that returned to its own vomit. However, since that time I have been Blessed with many miracles. The Peace that Passes all Understanding has only come to me very few times. However, I have experienced The True Love of God The Father and That Love is so Powerful that my words can’t do It Justice. That Love will not easily go away. Chastisement and scourging are very much part of our growth. Look at Christ Himself. At the very worst moment in eternity for Christ, Christ felt that God The Father had abandoned Him. There are so many Scriptures that are hidden from the many. When Christ comes to you as a thief in the night and Truly opens your eyes and ears, that is when you will understand. Please do let me know why you believe in future events that relate to you?