How can baptism be required for salvation?

[Eloy Craft]

And there is this as well.
The rite of marriage....
Believing spouse sanctifies the unbelieving spouse....making children clean.
1 cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Simply getting Married does this for the unbelieving, with regards to spouses, which in turn affects the Children.
Baptism of your children can sanctify them as well I believe. Many Churches have ceremonies of dedication. Baptism is the original rite.

Inspiring. Thanks for posting that.
Considering that the state of matrimony is lifted up by Christ, one could say that His Bride is in the midst of her Baptism now and will be until she is presented to Him cleansed without spot or wrinkle.
A mixed marriage is an image of the universal heavenly marriage in a way that a marriage between believers is not. "When we were yet sinners".
ralliann, may the Lord continue to bless you.

 

[klutedavid]

At what point was the thief on the cross baptized? and yet Jesus saved him.

The thief on the cross was dead before the resurrection of Jesus. Obviously, the thief could not have been baptized.

That water baptism is required and is an outward sign of that faith in Jesus Christ.

Washed clean by the blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[klutedavid]

So the entirety of Christianity has been wrong for these last two thousand years?

I would say that the church favored ceremony and sacraments. That is probably where the errors occurred. Tradition locked any errors into the doctrines, the law of the church.

For example, the Nicene Creed does not mention grace even once. How could such an important creed exclude grace. The gospel of Jesus Christ is called the gospel of grace.

Acts 20:24
But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of God’s grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Grace is mentioned 112 times in the N.T but 0 times in the Nicene Creed.

Can anyone explain how that is possible?

 

[Valletta]

I would say that the church favored ceremony and sacraments. That is probably where the errors occurred. Tradition locked any errors into the doctrines, the law of the church.

For example, the Nicene Creed does not mention grace even once. How could such an important creed exclude grace. The gospel of Jesus Christ is called the gospel of grace.

As happened so often, the Council of Nicea was called to address errors in teaching, heresies, such as was in this case taught by Arian. The Apostles Creed from the first century, as a profession of what Catholics believed as taught by the Apostles, was almost certainly a profession of faith in reaction to heresies. The Creed as it progressed was never intended to be a complete Catechism or Bible. The Creed is about the basic tenets of our Catholic faith.

 

[klutedavid]

As happened so often, the Council of Nicea was called to address errors in teaching, heresies, such as was in this case taught by Arian. The Apostles Creed from the first century, as a profession of what Catholics believed as taught by the Apostles, was almost certainly a profession of faith in reaction to heresies. The Creed as it progressed was never intended to be a complete Catechism or Bible. The Creed is about the basic tenets of our Catholic faith.

I checked the other two creeds that the catholic church affirms.

Neither the Apostles creed or the Athanasian creed mention the word grace.

These creeds are dated somewhere between the fifth and the seventh centuries.

How can three out of three creeds, fail the pub test on basic Christianity?

SAVED BY GRACE.

 

[Eloy Craft]

How can three out of three creeds, fail the pub test on basic Christianity?

Maybe there was no need to defend the meaning of Grace. Creeds guard the Faith from error.

 

[coffee4u]

Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

Baptism is not required to be saved. If you are dying or in a place where this is impossible and you die, salvation is still assured, God isn't going to toss you out for not having been baptized.
Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
God wants you to be baptized though and all Christians after coming to faith should be baptized.

The only one being condemned in Mark is the unbelieving not the unbaptized. Being baptized should come after faith and Mark shows the proper order. Belief then baptism.

 

[Valletta]

I checked the other two creeds that the catholic church affirms.

Neither the Apostles creed or the Athanasian creed mention the word grace.

These creeds are dated somewhere between the fifth and the seventh centuries.

How can three out of three creeds, fail the pub test on basic Christianity?

SAVED BY GRACE.

The teachings of the Apostles are not subject to your tests. As Saint Cyril of Jerusalem( c.313–386 A.D.) said:

"This synthesis of faith was not made to accord with human opinions, but rather what was of the greatest importance was gathered from all the Scriptures, to present the one teaching of the faith in its entirety. And just as the mustard seed contains a great number of branches in a tiny grain, so too this summary of faith encompassed in a few words the whole knowledge of the true religion contained in the Old and the New Testaments." ( Catech. illum. 5, 12)

 

[disciple Clint]

The thief on the cross was dead before the resurrection of Jesus. Obviously, the thief could not have been baptized.

That water baptism is required and is an outward sign of that faith in Jesus Christ.

Washed clean by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Do you see a contradiction in your post? Jesus just saved someone who had the opportunity to be baptized during the ministry of Jesus but did not.

 

[klutedavid]

Maybe there was no need to defend the meaning of Grace. Creeds guard the Faith from error.

It is not defending the faith, so much, as it is defending the apostle's official proclamation.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

We are not defending the faith, we are defending that we are saved by grace in the first instance.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Acts 20:24
But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of God’s grace.

Romans 3:24
Being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 5:2
Through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God.

 

[klutedavid]

Do you see a contradiction in your post? Jesus just saved someone who had the opportunity to be baptized during the ministry of Jesus but did not.

Negative Houston, no contradiction.

 

[klutedavid]

The teachings of the Apostles are not subject to your tests. As Saint Cyril of Jerusalem( c.313–386 A.D.) said:

"This synthesis of faith was not made to accord with human opinions, but rather what was of the greatest importance was gathered from all the Scriptures, to present the one teaching of the faith in its entirety. And just as the mustard seed contains a great number of branches in a tiny grain, so too this summary of faith encompassed in a few words the whole knowledge of the true religion contained in the Old and the New Testaments." ( Catech. illum. 5, 12)

I am sorry but they must align with the apostle's teaching. If they had carefully searched the scripture they would have found the following verse.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and of pleading, so that they will look at Me whom they pierced; and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

 

[Eloy Craft]

is not defending the faith, so much, as it is defending the apostle's official proclamation.

What you called 'official proclamation' I called the Deposit of Faith. Not to be contrare but I think the term you use is imprecise.

We are not defending the faith, we are defending that we are saved by grace in the first instance.

Saved by Grace is universally understood so doesn't need defended, 'in the first instance' doesn't need defended either since it is believed by few and even if true is inconsequential to Christian life.

 

[HTacianas]

I would say that the church favored ceremony and sacraments. That is probably where the errors occurred. Tradition locked any errors into the doctrines, the law of the church.

For example, the Nicene Creed does not mention grace even once. How could such an important creed exclude grace. The gospel of Jesus Christ is called the gospel of grace.

Acts 20:24
But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of God’s grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Grace is mentioned 112 times in the N.T but 0 times in the Nicene Creed.

Can anyone explain how that is possible?

I can explain that. The Nicene Creed is the statement of faith of Christianity. Anything contradicting the Nicene Creed is not Christianity, but something else. But the Nicene Creed was not written as a statement of faith per se. It was written in response to heresies that came up over time. It beings:

We believe in one God...

That is to refute the heresy of Gnosticism, which holds that there are two gods. It continues:

...maker of all things, visible and invisible...

That again refutes the Gnostic belief that one god created the material world, while another god created an invisible world.

Grace within Christianity is a given. It has never been disputed so needs no refutation.

 

[enoob57]

And there is this as well.
The rite of marriage....
Believing spouse sanctifies the unbelieving spouse....making children clean.
1 cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Simply getting Married does this for the unbelieving, with regards to spouses, which in turn affects the Children.
Baptism of your children can sanctify them as well I believe. Many Churches have ceremonies of dedication. Baptism is the original rite.

The Bible is clear that marriage choice cannot be unequally yoked! The only way the verses above are applicable if both were unbelievers and one came to Christ…

 

[YeshuaFan]

For God so loved the world He gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (No mention of baptism)

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 (No mention of baptism)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16 (Notice baptism is completely useless without faith.)

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone. Why did John baptize people before the Holy Spirit came down? Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

Water baptise one once have professed faith in Jesus as lord, so not required to get saved, but should be done afterwards!

 

[ralliann]

The Bible is clear that marriage choice cannot be unequally yoked! The only way the verses above are applicable if both were unbelievers and one came to Christ…

Paul is clear, the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse. And the children of that maritial union are holy, all due to the believer. The passages of "yoke" you speak of is not talking about marriage specifically. The passages concerning (being joined) marriage speaks of the unbelieving spouse being "pleased to dwell with". The catholic Church will marry a Catholic and a non Catholic, but the unbelieving spouse must agree the children of that marriage will be raised as a Catholic. I think the passage on this is handled well in this instance.
I do not even know if unequally yoked can even be speaking of marriage, at least not in the sense God joining together . Yoke is "zugos" a pair, of balances etc. Where as union in marriage is to be made one, no longer two. yoke seems to be more to do with carrying out work, like a ministry etc. Used of oxen, etc.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Water baptise one once have professed faith in Jesus as lord, so not required to get saved, but should be done afterwards!

So, Baptism is inconsequential? Why should it be done at all?

 

[YeshuaFan]

So, Baptism is inconsequential? Why should it be done at all?

To be a member of a local assembly, to public identify with Jesus, to be outward sign of an already done internal salvation!

 

[ralliann]

To be a member of a local assembly, to public identify with Jesus, to be outward sign of an already done internal salvation!

Is that why Abraham was circumcised? So, the new covenant sign is baptism? Why did Abraham Circumcise his children I wonder?