How can baptism be required for salvation?

[rturner76]

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone.

If you have faith, you will be baptized. Your baptism is your public declaration of your faith so it's necessary, especially because Jesus commands us to do it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you have faith, you will be baptized. Your baptism is your public declaration of your faith so it's necessary, especially because Jesus commands us to do it.

Babies don't have faith, so why baptize them? They certainly don't want to be baptized and have no faith to declare.

 

[John Owen]

It appears so. However, the overwhelming majority of Scripture teaches that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, apart from any works. So, you interpret the unclear verses by the clear, overwhelming majority of verses.

 

[rturner76]

Babies don't have faith, so why baptize them? They certainly don't want to be baptized and have no faith to declare.

We baptize them to bring them into the Christian community since Christ commanded that all be baptized. Then, when you come of age your baptism is confirmed by the Church

 

[John Owen]

We baptize them to bring them into the Christian community since Christ commanded that all be baptized. Then, when you come of age your baptism is confirmed by the Church

That is a different interpretation of Baptism. The problem is that there are exactly zero instances of an infant being baptized in the New Testament.

 

[Doug Brents]

I have great pity for those who believe and confess but, for reasons beyond their control, end up in hell because they were not baptized.

I hope and pray that, being the merciful God that he is, he will show mercy to those people beyond what he has written in his word. However, seeing that he is a God who does what he says, I do not rhink that will be the case.

As Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”. Almost, but lost!!

 

[bbbbbbb]

I hope and pray that, being the merciful God that he is, he will show mercy to those people beyond what he has written in his word. However, seeing that he is a God who does what he says, I do not rhink that will be the case.

As Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”. Almost, but lost!!

I am not referencing people like Agrippa, but people who have been fully persuaded and have confessed Jesus Christ as Lord but, due to circumstances beyond their control, cannot be baptized.

 

[rturner76]

That is a different interpretation of Baptism. The problem is that there are exactly zero instances of an infant being baptized in the New Testament.

I was under the impression that whole families were baptized. I would assume the family includes the children though correct, the word "baby" is not mentioned.

Acts 16:15 “And when she was baptized, with her household, she besought us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ And she prevailed upon us” [cf. 18:18].

Acts 16:33 “And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family.”

1 Corinthians 1:16 “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas.”

 

[bbbbbbb]

I was under the impression that whole families were baptized. I would assume the family includes the children though correct, the word "baby" is not mentioned.

Acts 16:15 “And when she was baptized, with her household, she besought us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ And she prevailed upon us” [cf. 18:18].

Acts 16:33 “And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family.”

1 Corinthians 1:16 “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas.”

If you take "household" literally, as many seem to be inclined to do, that would include all slaves and servants and, probably, all other sentient beings such as camels, sheep, goats, etc. For taxation purposes they were included part and parcel with the household.

 

[Doug Brents]

We baptize them to bring them into the Christian community since Christ commanded that all be baptized. Then, when you come of age your baptism is confirmed by the Church

Acts 2:37-38 says that the listeners believed, and then we’re commanded to repent and be baptized. Mark 16:16 says, “he who believes and is baptized will be saved”. Belief and repentance must come before baptism. If not, the result is just a wet person, or in this case baby.

While this is up for debate, and in some other thread, I believe that every child is born pure and free from sin. They possess a sin nature, but are free from sin and will go to heaven if they die as an infant. That means that every person has the opportunity, if not the ability, to live a sinless life as Christ did. But every human that has ever lived has sined, and thereby giving up that perfect relationship with Christ. Infants, therefore, do not need baptism which results in forgiveness of sin, because they have no sin to be forgiven.

 

[Doug Brents]

and, probably, all other sentient beings such as camels, sheep, goats, etc.

Camels, sheep, goats, etc. are sentient? Since when?

The only creature native to Earth that is sentient is Mankind.

 

[Doug Brents]

It appears so. However, the overwhelming majority of Scripture teaches that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, apart from any works. So, you interpret the unclear verses by the clear, overwhelming majority of verses.

Acts 2:38 is VERY clear. “Repent and be baptized into Christ…” Why? “to receive forgiveness of sin.”

Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-4 are also very clear. It is during baptism that the Holy Spirit takes action to remove our sin and unite us with Christ’s death and resurrection.

And James is also very clear that faith without action is dead and worthless (James 2:26).

So yes, we are saved by grace alone - because, “while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.” And we are saved through faith alone - because we receive grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9). But man has taken the “apart from works” out of context. Works do not EARN salvation, because we had done nothing to deserve salvation when the price for it was paid. But actions are required to receive it, because faith must include action or it is dead, worthless, and unable to bring grace to us.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Camels, sheep, goats, etc. are sentient? Since when?

The only creature native to Earth that is sentient is Mankind.

In terms of enumerating members of a household, slaves were considered to be equal to other beasts of burden. Slaves were bought and sold just like any other animal. If slaves were considered to be people and members of a household, then so would other beasts of burden.

I realize that our culture has long rejected that idea, but that was the prevailing understanding in the first century.

 

[Doug Brents]

In terms of enumerating members of a household, slaves were considered to be equal to other beasts of burden. Slaves were bought and sold just like any other animal. If slaves were considered to be people and members of a household, then so would other beasts of burden.

I realize that our culture has long rejected that idea, but that was the prevailing understanding in the first century.

Before I say anything else, let me say that I find the idea of one person owning another person reprehensible. But slavery has been a fact of human history for almost all of human history.

In some cultures it is true that they considered slaves to be animals. But for the most part, while slaves were/are property (can be claimed in a balance sheet as an asset, most cultures have recognized that a slave (regardless of color, nationality, or gender) is still a human being. Some cultures allowed slaves to own slaves of their own.

But lowering a human to the level of animal does not equate to raising an animal to the level of sentience.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Before I say anything else, let me say that I find the idea of one person owning another person reprehensible. But slavery has been a fact of human history for almost all of human history.

In some cultures it is true that they considered slaves to be animals. But for the most part, while slaves were/are property (can be claimed in a balance sheet as an asset, most cultures have recognized that a slave (regardless of color, nationality, or gender) is still a human being. Some cultures allowed slaves to own slaves of their own.

But lowering a human to the level of animal does not equate to raising an animal to the level of sentience.

It does, however, retain the tricky problem of household baptisms. If, in fact, every living human being in a household was baptized, including infants, then that might also, logically, include slaves and other servants. If these slaves and servants did not actually believe in Jesus Christ nor profess Him as Lord, what value would their baptism hold?

Also, I am waiting to hear your thoughts concerning individuals who have sincere faith in Jesus Christ and have professed Him as Lord but, for reasons entirely beyond their control, are unable to be baptized before their die. To give you a real life example, there are more and more Muslims who are professing faith in Jesus Christ. Because of that profession their family is duty-bound to kill them. If not the family, then the government, which follows Sharia law in countries such as Iran, undertake the execution of the heretic.

 

[rturner76]

Acts 2:37-38 says that the listeners believed, and then we’re commanded to repent and be baptized. Mark 16:16 says, “he who believes and is baptized will be saved”. Belief and repentance must come before baptism. If not, the result is just a wet person, or in this case baby.

While this is up for debate, and in some other thread, I believe that every child is born pure and free from sin. They possess a sin nature, but are free from sin and will go to heaven if they die as an infant. That means that every person has the opportunity, if not the ability, to live a sinless life as Christ did. But every human that has ever lived has sined, and thereby giving up that perfect relationship with Christ. Infants, therefore, do not need baptism which results in forgiveness of sin, because they have no sin to be forgiven.

If you believe that then run with that. I'll go with whole families being baptized as a way to bring your whole family into the church.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you believe that then run with that. I'll go with whole families being baptized as a way to bring your whole family into the church.

Does that also include slaves and servants?

 

[Zachm531]

Baptism is a public display of your conversion to Jesus. That is why it must be immersion, not just getting your hair wet.

Show me 1 verse that either says says baptism is
“An outward sign of an inward change.”
“Only symbolic.”
“A public display of your conversion.”

If you cant show me a passage using that language or terminology, then its you who is going outside of scripture to support your beliefs.

I can biblically say
“Baptism saves” because that is what scripture says:
“There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”
‭‭I Peter‬ ‭3:21‬

I can biblically say “repent and be baptized to have your sins remitted” because that is what scripture says:
“Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I can say “believe and be baptized to be saved” because that is what scripture says(as you quoted earlier)
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I can say “you have to be baptized to put on Christ” because that is what scripture says:
“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I can say “you are buried with Christ and raised in His like, in baptism” because that is what scripture says:
“buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I can say “you are born again and receive new life in baptism” because that is what scripture says:
“Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

and


“Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.... After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5, 22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


If you cant find any verse saying something along the lines of
baptism is
“An outward sign of an inward change.”
“Only symbolic.”
“A public display of your conversion.”

then humble yourself, repent and submit to what Christians have always believed, that the merits of Christ are applied to us through faith at baptism.

 

[NPY]

Jesus set the example when He asked John to baptise Him. As a result, the Holy Spirit descended upon Him while His Father publicly acknowledged Him. In doing so, Jesus established the three states of humanity - fallen, redeemed, and glorified upon His resurrection. We need to follow His example.

 

[Doug Brents]

Show me 1 verse that either says says baptism is
“An outward sign of an inward change.”
“Only symbolic.”
“A public display of your conversion.”

If you cant show me a passage using that language or terminology, then its you who is going outside of scripture to support your beliefs.

I can biblically say
“Baptism saves” because that is what scripture says:
“There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”
‭‭I Peter‬ ‭3:21‬

I can biblically say “repent and be baptized to have your sins remitted” because that is what scripture says:
“Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I can say “believe and be baptized to be saved” because that is what scripture says(as you quoted earlier)
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I can say “you have to be baptized to put on Christ” because that is what scripture says:
“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I can say “you are buried with Christ and raised in His like, in baptism” because that is what scripture says:
“buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I can say “you are born again and receive new life in baptism” because that is what scripture says:
“Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

and


“Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.... After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5, 22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


If you cant find any verse saying something along the lines of
baptism is
“An outward sign of an inward change.”
“Only symbolic.”
“A public display of your conversion.”

then humble yourself, repent and submit to what Christians have always believed, that the merits of Christ are applied to us through faith at baptism.

Amen!