WHAT DOES PAUL. SAID OF Eph 1 : 4. !!

[Dave...]

And it not funny as it is not A PARABLE as many believe

AS. the rich man body is in. the GRAVE !!

The rich mans SOUL is. in HELL !!

And his SPIRIT. GOES back to CHRIST that gave it to. him. ECC 12:7. for UNBELIVERS

And for those saved BELIVERS their BODIES go. to a Grave

So where does a BLIEVERS , SPIRIT AND SOUL go ??

dan p

Hey Dan, I would say, not hell, but Hades. Hell, as understood by 16th century Christians who translated the KJV, carried the same idea as Hades does today, called Sheol in the OT. The NKJV Bible fixed that. I agree that it's not a parable. Abrahams bosom, that's where OT believers who where physically dead waited for Jesus and the cross. Promises don't justify, nor do they make born again, only in Christ do we have those things that save us. Without the Holy spirit indwelling (baptism with the Holy Spirit, we are not in Christ and not saved.

 

[Dave...]

Glad to see you DAVE ~~

In. Eph. 1 :4 we were CHOSEN , BEFORD //. PRO. is a PREPOSTION

THE FOUNDATION //. KATABOLE , is in the GENITIVE CASE , IN. THE SIGNULAR and. the SIGNULAR means ONLY

CHOSEN ONE TIME ONLY

of the WORLD //. KOSMOS. and also in. the GENITIVE CASE also. in. the SINGULAR.

dan p

In Him...We were chosen in Him. One time was Jesus chosen. When we are in Him we are chosen with Him.

 

[timf]

The actual term "born again" which is what Nicodemus was supposed to have understood comes from Ezekiel.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This was for the faithful remnant of Israel that would enter the earthly kingdom. While Christians could be called "regenerated" when receiving new and eternal life when placed into the body of Christ, it can be confusing to also call this being "born again".

 

[Dave...]

The actual term "born again" which is what Nicodemus was supposed to have understood comes from Ezekiel.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This was for the faithful remnant of Israel that would enter the earthly kingdom. While Christians could be called "regenerated" when receiving new and eternal life when placed into the body of Christ, it can be confusing to also call this being "born again".

Hey Tim

That's what born again is. When we are placed in Christ, we become spiritually one with Him. At that same placing into Him, we are also, in effect, placed into His death and resurrection, meaning we die with Him and are raised up with Him. This is born again. I'm, going to start a thread on that very topic.

I agree that the promise was made go all the way back in Ezekiel. The promise, The Holy Spirit indwelling, called the baptism with the Holy Spirit, resulting in being born again, was still future. We can see this same future promise still not fulfilled in John 7:38-39.

John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Compare that to EZ. 36:25-27. Also, vs. 27, should be capitol "S", as in Spirit, not spirit. The NKJV fixed that and use a capitol "S" when the Bible is speaking of the Holy Spirit, and a small "s" when speaking of our spirit.

Anyways, this was exactly Jesus' point in John 3. After explaining born again, Jesus says this in 3:14-15.... In other words, this must happen first....

John 3:14-15 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

This all points to Pentecost and the baptism (placing into Christ) with the Holy Spirit [indwelling]. The reason Nicodemus didn't understand Jesus was because He was not born again. Nobody can be born again unless they are in Christ. Nobody can be placed in Christ without the Holy Spirit indwelling that places us in Christ. That indwelling was not available until Pentecost.

Here are some more verses to consider. John 12:32-33, 14:25-29, 15:26, 16:7, -->16:12-16 <-- This is why Nicodemus didn't understand.

Prophesied, Jesus is the baptizer, the Holy Spirit is the Agent of that baptism.

 

[timf]

Dave, I appreciate your kind reply. However, I think if you look deeper. the Ezekiel verses parallel the Jeremiah verses in talking about the new covenant for Israel and the earthly kingdom they could expect.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The desire to see everything in the bible (especially the gospels) as applying to us can be very strong. By maintaining a distinction between what is intended for Israel and what is for the body of Christ, we can avoid a lot of confusion. I know it is unconventional and unfamiliar, but then there was a time when not praying to Mary was radical.