How can baptism be required for salvation?

[GodLovesCats]

If you can't find any verse saying something along the lines of:

Baptism is
“An outward sign of an inward change.”
“Only symbolic.”
“A public display of your conversion.”

then humble yourself, repent and submit to what Christians have always believed, that the merits of Christ are applied to us through faith at baptism.

So you will not accept what a church pastor says unless he is quoting Scripture? That is not acceptable in any church.

If baptism itself is what saves people, explain why millions of people who were baptized during infancy do not believe Jesus is God and will never enter His kingdom. I am horrible at remembering Bible references, but do know with absolute certainty some verses are about not needing water baptism for salvation.

 

[Zachm531]

So you will not accept what a church pastor says unless he is quoting Scripture? That is not acceptable in any church.

If baptism itself is what saves people, explain why millions of people who were baptized during infancy do not believe Jesus is God and will never enter His kingdom. I am horrible at remembering Bible references, but do know with absolute certainty some verses are about not needing water baptism for salvation.

Friend, why did you ignore the 5-10 references proving baptism as a necessary condition for salvation?

No, there is not a single verse that says “baptism is not necessary for salvation”
Nor is their verses that say “baptism is only symbolic” or “baptism is an outward sign of an inward change” or anything remotely close to that.

The reason that there are people who were baptized as infants and currently reject Jesus, is the same reason that people make professions of faith for a time and fall away.

salvation is not one and done, its a life-long commitment to Christ

 

[Zachm531]

So you will not accept what a church pastor says unless he is quoting Scripture? That is not acceptable in any church.

If baptism itself is what saves people, explain why millions of people who were baptized during infancy do not believe Jesus is God and will never enter His kingdom. I am horrible at remembering Bible references, but do know with absolute certainty some verses are about not needing water baptism for salvation.

Please go back an re-read my post, i quoted 7 passages that explicitly say that Baptism is necessary for salvation, and you completely ignored them. I know its scary to accept when baptist preachers tell you that you will go to hell if you “add any work to the gospel message” but, that is what cultists do. The true gospel message includes baptism:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬ ‭

 

[bbbbbbb]

Amen!

I am still waiting for your response to my questions in Post #475

 

[Doug Brents]

So you will not accept what a church pastor says unless he is quoting Scripture? That is not acceptable in any church.

Certainly that is acceptable. What is not acceptable is to sit at the feet of a person who teaches something that cannot be backed up by Scripture. The Bareans were counted as more noble than others because they refused to believe what men said unless it was backed up, and agreed, with Scripture.

If baptism itself is what saves people, explain why millions of people who were baptized during infancy do not believe Jesus is God and will never enter His kingdom. I am horrible at remembering Bible references, but do know with absolute certainty some verses are about not needing water baptism for salvation.

Scripture is very clear that just getting wet is not what saves you. You MUST have belief in Jesus as the Christ, confess His name as Lord, and repent of the sin in your life first. But Scripture is also clear that without baptism we do not connect with the blood of Christ, and the Spirit does not remove our sin and unite us with Jesus’ death and resurrection.

There are absolutely NO verses that say we are saved without baptism. There are passages that you have been TOLD (erroneously) say that, but you were told wrong. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. Because that is true, when multiple passages state emphatically and clearly that baptism is the point at which we are saved, there can be no passage that means otherwise. Period.

 

[Doug Brents]

It does, however, retain the tricky problem of household baptisms. If, in fact, every living human being in a household was baptized, including infants, then that might also, logically, include slaves and other servants. If these slaves and servants did not actually believe in Jesus Christ nor profess Him as Lord, what value would their baptism hold?

Absolutely no value whatsoever. Which means that either the servants were allowed to listen and come to believe on their own, or they were not baptized (being considered “household” property, but not part of the family.

Also, I am waiting to hear your thoughts concerning individuals who have sincere faith in Jesus Christ and have professed Him as Lord but, for reasons entirely beyond their control, are unable to be baptized before their die. To give you a real life example, there are more and more Muslims who are professing faith in Jesus Christ. Because of that profession their family is duty-bound to kill them. If not the family, then the government, which follows Sharia law in countries such as Iran, undertake the execution of the heretic.

I have already addressed this question. I feel great sorrow for those who confess Jesus as Lord but fail to act in faith and receive baptism (either through delay, lack of urgency, fear, or for any other reason). I read Scripture as being very clear that they have not received salvation because they have not been washed in the Blood.

As for Muslims who, due to fear of reprisal, do not get baptized; they are placing fear of man over fear of God. They have their reward.

 

[Dan Perez]

So you will not accept what a church pastor says unless he is quoting Scripture? That is not acceptable in any church.

If baptism itself is what saves people, explain why millions of people who were baptized during infancy do not believe Jesus is God and will never enter His kingdom. I am horrible at remembering Bible references, but do know with absolute certainty some verses are about not needing water baptism for salvation.

It is BETTER to believe what the bible says , than believe TRADITIONS !!

If anyone believes in water baptism , can they explain 1 Cor 10:2 where all were BAPTIZED unto to Moses , unto the CLOUD and unto the SEA ?

What does the CLOUD represent as it does represent ?

What does the SEA represent ?

dan p

 

[Valletta]

It is BETTER to believe what the bible says , than believe TRADITIONS !!

If anyone believes in water baptism , can they explain 1 Cor 10:2 where all were BAPTIZED unto to Moses , unto the CLOUD and unto the SEA ?

What does the CLOUD represent as it does represent ?

What does the SEA represent ?

dan p

There is a huge difference between Sacred Tradition and the mere tradition of men. The Bible is very clear that we are saved through Baptism:

1 Peter 3:20-21 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. RSVCE

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is a huge difference between Sacred Tradition and the mere tradition of men. The Bible is very clear that we are saved through Baptism:

1 Pet 3:20-21 God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.

Curiously, you clipped off the end of verse 21. Was that intentional?

Here is the complete verse -

21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

My question to you is how can an unwitting person make an appeal to God for a good conscience?

 

[Valletta]

Curiously, you clipped off the end of verse 21. Was that intentional?

Here is the complete verse -

21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

My question to you is how can an unwitting person make an appeal to God for a good conscience?

Oops, sorry about that. It doesn't say who the appeal is from. If it were a child I would think the appeal would be from the parents. By the way, I asked you for a citation for your Vietnam story a couple of times. See #906 . I didn't see an answer.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Oops, sorry about that. It doesn't say who the appeal is from. If it were a child I would think the appeal would be from the parents. By the way, I asked you for a citation for your Vietnam story a couple of times. See #906 . I didn't see an answer.

Using that line of thinking, one might establish any sort of surrogate to make an appeal, thus establishing universal salvation for all of mankind. After all, what Christian would not want to see others enter heaven if all that was required was an appeal to God on their behalf?

 

[Valletta]

Using that line of thinking, one might establish any sort of surrogate to make an appeal, thus establishing universal salvation for all of mankind. After all, what Christian would not want to see others enter heaven if all that was required was an appeal to God on their behalf?

As with circumcision, the faith of the parents suffices for infant Baptism. Neither of us is the Architect. God's way are far above our ways.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As with circumcision, the faith of the parents suffices for infant Baptism. Neither of us is the Architect. God's way are far above our ways.

Circumcision never entailed the faith of the parents for salvation. Salvation has never been an aspect of circumcision. Circumcision is the rite by which males are physically identified as being Jews.

Using the analogy of circumcision one would perforce need to exclude females from the rite of baptism. Females were never circumcised, nor could they be. If one view circumcision as a rite leading to salvation then all Jewish females were excluded.

 

[Valletta]

Circumcision never entailed the faith of the parents for salvation. Salvation has never been an aspect of circumcision. Circumcision is the rite by which males are physically identified as being Jews.

Using the analogy of circumcision one would perforce need to exclude females from the rite of baptism. Females were never circumcised, nor could they be. If one view circumcision as a rite leading to salvation then all Jewish females were excluded.

Col 2:11-12 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. NRSVCE​

 

[bbbbbbb]

Col 2:11-12 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. NRSVCE​

At its best, it is a vague correlation. It has nothing whatever to do with baptizing infants. If it did, then only male infants could be baptized and any female could never be baptized nor could any male older than the eight days prescribed for circumcision be baptized.

One must read various things into the verse to reach your conclusions.

 

[Dan Perez]

At its best, it is a vague correlation. It has nothing whatever to do with baptizing infants. If it did, then only male infants could be baptized and any female could never be baptized nor could any male older than the eight days prescribed for circumcision be baptized.

One must read various things into the verse to reach your conclusions.

If anyone EVER looks what the Greek word in Col 2:12 which reads , buried TOGETHER with Him in The BAPTISMA , that is RIGHT Greek word in verse 12 is NOT and has NEVER been the Greek word BAPTISM , PERIOD !!

Check the Greek text and see !!

SO what does the ONE BAPRISMA than mean ?

In Eph 4:5 it means ONE BAPTISMA which mean it is is the HOLY SPIRIT .

dan p

 

[Doug Brents]

If anyone EVER looks what the Greek word in Col 2:12 which reads , buried TOGETHER with Him in The BAPTISMA , that is RIGHT Greek word in verse 12 is NOT and has NEVER been the Greek word BAPTISM , PERIOD !!

Check the Greek text and see !!

SO what does the ONE BAPRISMA than mean ?

In Eph 4:5 it means ONE BAPTISMA which mean it is is the HOLY SPIRIT .

dan p

baptisma is the noun form
baptismo is the verb form
OF THE SAME WORD.

They both mean the same thing: immerse, baptismo = to immerse, baptisma = immersion.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If anyone EVER looks what the Greek word in Col 2:12 which reads , buried TOGETHER with Him in The BAPTISMA , that is RIGHT Greek word in verse 12 is NOT and has NEVER been the Greek word BAPTISM , PERIOD !!

Check the Greek text and see !!

SO what does the ONE BAPRISMA than mean ?

In Eph 4:5 it means ONE BAPTISMA which mean it is is the HOLY SPIRIT .

dan p

Buried? Do you actually believe that? If so, how is it that the Catholic Church does not bury anyone under water when they are baptized?

 

[Dan Perez]

Buried? Do you actually believe that? If so, how is it that the Catholic Church does not bury anyone under water when they are baptized?

And that Greek word BURIED / SYNTHAPTO , G4916 is in the Greek text in the KJV , ESU , and YLT

dan p

 

[Valletta]

So you will not accept what a church pastor says unless he is quoting Scripture? That is not acceptable in any church.

If baptism itself is what saves people, explain why millions of people who were baptized during infancy do not believe Jesus is God and will never enter His kingdom. I am horrible at remembering Bible references, but do know with absolute certainty some verses are about not needing water baptism for salvation.

Baptism does save us, perhaps you remember the verse about Noah and how we are saved through Baptism. But when we fall, God continues to save us, as you will find elsewhere in the Bible.