How Can Abortion Be Biblically Defended?

[SkyWriting]

The minute you said that local laws take priority over the word of God, you lost all credibility to argue your case.

Still no scripture to back you up?
Jesus claimed that local laws are the Father's will.

John 19:11
10So Pilate said to Him, “Do You refuse to speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You and authority to crucify You?”
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed Me over to you is guilty of greater sin.”

 

[SkyWriting]

I agree. I just figured that if Skywriting didn't want to listen to the Bible or the hundreds of Christian's who are telling him he is wrong, perhaps maybe he would listen to a pastor. I dont think any pastor who respects the word of God would tell him that God's word is final.

Hmmm....most would.
--------------------------------------------
I came to this conclusion more strongly as there has been no scriptural rebuttal.
Plus I have handed out completely unbiased research tools:
55 Bible verses about Government - Knowing Jesus – Bible

 

[SkyWriting]

Except now you are shifting the argument. Nobody is saying we are to favor personal views over government. We are saying that we should favor the word of God over government. Now keep reading acts 5 and report what you find.

Here are ALL my research tools:

This one is lightning fast:
What Does the Bible Say About Subjection To Government?
This one is more detailed:
Bible Search: authority

Let me know if you find anything on Gods written laws as the priority.

 

[SkyWriting]

And what does verse 16 tell you?

1 Peter 2
13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor[c] as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants[d] of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. 19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22 He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Still no scripture to back you up?
Jesus claimed that local laws are the Father's will.
Let me know if you find anything on Gods written laws as the priority.

What Does the Bible Say About Obedience?

So why do you even bother with the Bible. Because you believe that local laws takes priority over scripture, why bother with it? You really believe that God would write an entire book of instructions and then say, "Obey all my commandments, unless someone else tells you not to. In that case, you are forbidden to obey me. Thus, your obedience would actually be your disobedience."? Translation, God says, "How dare you obey me over your local mayor!"

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

1 Peter 2
16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants[d] of God.

Translation: "Live as people who are free, not using women's rights as an excuse to cover up the evil of abortion." That is what it tells me. Now answer the question. What does it mean to you?

 

[SkyWriting]

- You would have
- no authority over Me
- if it were not given to you
- from above.

authority - given to you
authority over Me

It's pretty clear.

 

[SkyWriting]

Translation: "Live as people who are free, not using women's rights as an excuse to cover up the evil of abortion." That is what it tells me. Now answer the question. What does it mean to you?

Yes. The freedom written about is not "women's rights", an imaginary topic.
There is no such thing as "women's rights" as explained here:

Matthew 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. (Except women, of course)

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Except women, of course)


The freedom is the new covenant.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:6
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Hebrews 8:7-8
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Galatians 5:1
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

Galatians 5:13-14
For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The freedom is the new covenant.

Yes, we are free from the bondage of the Old covenant, but don't let that freedom be an excuse to cover up evil. Which is exactly what you are doing by suggesting that local laws take priority over the word of God. With that perverse approach to scripture, any and all wickedness and evil can be excused as long as it is "legal". Again, I will not discuss the biblical justification for abortion with you on this thread because you have already demonstrated that the premise of the OP is valid the minute you claimed "local laws take priority over scripture."

 

[Pavel Mosko]

My question is more centered around their logic and justification in supporting abortion.

I AM PROLIFE - BUT I WILL PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE AND MAKE A BIBLICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR IT! I'm a little surprised at the lack of imagination etc. of people on the thread in reading the first few pages.... The deck is stacked against abortion but the Bible has many passages and someone who is willing to brainstorm can usually find something, besides just the Romans passage on conscience.


But here it goes.... Decades ago, IN the early 90s when at a friends house, who had a father who was extremely conservative (far right end of John Birch Society) the guy was ranting on and on about how abortion was murder. now I am and was against it, but thought that his position was too extreme based on the Bible.


In summary if you look at the Bible humans are expecting to reproduce (Early Genesis), and there are many passages in the OT that show that children are "a blessing from God". So clearly abortion from that perspective is not positive, it goes against nature etc.

But does it constitute murder? Prolife people like myself typically will point to passages that indicate "life begins at conception", the passage in the NT about Jesus "leaping in Mary's womb" being a frequently cited one. But if you want to talk about a passage that says something directly to the issue then I would say No!

The most direct passage that corresponds to modern abortion is a passage or two from the Pentateuch that covers a situation where a person causes a kind of abortion via a miscarriage.

Exodus 21:22
22If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely,but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows.


The fact that Bible does not require a death sentence here I find very telling! Because if you look throughout the Pentateuch, Yahew was not shy at handing out death sentences for many things.


Anyway based on this fact or set of facts, it is not hard to imagine some form of limited rational justification for abortion. I would say, health reasons would be the most reasonable one and likely one. But there could be others ones based on extreme situations e.g. - a woman lives in a society that practices honor killing and doesn't want her boy friend killed for sleeping with her etc.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes, we are free from the bondage of the Old covenant, but don't let that freedom be an excuse to cover up evil. Which is exactly what you are doing by suggesting that local laws take priority over the word of God. With that perverse approach to scripture, any and all wickedness and evil can be excused as long as it is "legal". Again, I will not discuss the biblical justification for abortion with you on this thread because you have already demonstrated that the premise of the OP is valid the minute you claimed "local laws take priority over scripture."

Everything takes priority over anything that scripture says is obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete.
And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

(Are we waiting on something I don't know about?)

 

[God saves]

I AM PROLIFE - BUT I WILL PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE AND MAKE A BIBLICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR IT! I'm a little surprised at the lack of imagination etc. of people on the thread in reading the first few pages.... The deck is stacked against abortion but the Bible has many passages and someone who is willing to brainstorm can usually find something, besides just the Romans passage on conscience.


But here it goes.... Decades ago, IN the early 90s when at a friends house, who had a father who was extremely conservative (far right end of John Birch Society) the guy was ranting on and on about how abortion was murder. now I am and was against it, but thought that his position was too extreme based on the Bible.


In summary if you look at the Bible humans are expecting to reproduce (Early Genesis), and there are many passages in the OT that show that children are "a blessing from God". So clearly abortion from that perspective is not positive, it goes against nature etc.

But does it constitute murder? Prolife people like myself typically will point to passages that indicate "life begins at conception", the passage in the NT about Jesus "leaping in Mary's womb" being a frequently cited one. But if you want to talk about a passage that says something directly to the issue then I would say No!

The most direct passage that corresponds to modern abortion is a passage or two from the Pentateuch that covers a situation where a person causes a kind of abortion via a miscarriage.

Exodus 21:22
22If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely,but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows.


The fact that Bible does not require a death sentence here I find very telling! Because if you look throughout the Pentateuch, Yahew was not shy at handing out death sentences for many things.


Anyway based on this fact or set of facts, it is not hard to imagine some form of limited rational justification for abortion. I would say, health reasons would be the most reasonable one and likely one. But there could be others ones based on extreme situations e.g. - a woman lives in a society that practices honor killing and doesn't want her boy friend killed for sleeping with her etc.

About how God views abortion and in the context of whether causing death of the unborn would be viewed as wrong during the Old Testament era, how do you interpret Exodus 21:23-25: "23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Everything takes priority over anything that scripture says is obsolete.

At least now we are seeing some progress. At least you are backtracking from "Local laws take priority over scripture" to "Everything takes priority over anything that scripture says is obsolete." Are the 10 commandments and the 2 greatest commandments "obsolete"? Because murder and idolatry both make the list.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

About how God views abortion and in the context of whether causing death of the unborn would be viewed as wrong during the Old Testament era, how do you interpret Exodus 21:23-25: "23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."?

It's definitely wrong or at least unnatural. But handled as a property crime in the text.

 

[SkyWriting]

At least now we are seeing some progress. At least you are backtracking from "Local laws take priority over scripture" to "Everything takes priority over anything that scripture says is obsolete." Are the 10 commandments and the 2 greatest commandments "obsolete"? Because murder and idolatry both make the list.

Excellent questions. Now we're on track to finding out the New and Old.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

 

[SkyWriting]

I AM PROLIFE - BUT I WILL PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE AND MAKE A BIBLICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR IT! I'm a little surprised at the lack of imagination etc. of people on the thread in reading the first few pages.... The deck is stacked against abortion but the Bible has many passages and someone who is willing to brainstorm can usually find something, besides just the Romans passage on conscience.


But here it goes.... Decades ago, IN the early 90s when at a friends house, who had a father who was extremely conservative (far right end of John Birch Society) the guy was ranting on and on about how abortion was murder. now I am and was against it, but thought that his position was too extreme based on the Bible.


In summary if you look at the Bible humans are expecting to reproduce (Early Genesis), and there are many passages in the OT that show that children are "a blessing from God". So clearly abortion from that perspective is not positive, it goes against nature etc.

But does it constitute murder? Prolife people like myself typically will point to passages that indicate "life begins at conception", the passage in the NT about Jesus "leaping in Mary's womb" being a frequently cited one. But if you want to talk about a passage that says something directly to the issue then I would say No!

The most direct passage that corresponds to modern abortion is a passage or two from the Pentateuch that covers a situation where a person causes a kind of abortion via a miscarriage.

Exodus 21:22
22If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely,but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows.


The fact that Bible does not require a death sentence here I find very telling! Because if you look throughout the Pentateuch, Yahew was not shy at handing out death sentences for many things.


Anyway based on this fact or set of facts, it is not hard to imagine some form of limited rational justification for abortion. I would say, health reasons would be the most reasonable one and likely one. But there could be others ones based on extreme situations e.g. - a woman lives in a society that practices honor killing and doesn't want her boy friend killed for sleeping with her etc.

Again with the stupid court system.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I first wanted to clarify upfront that I am in absolutely no way challenging that someone who is pro-choice isn't a Christian. My question is more centered around their logic and justification in supporting abortion. With so much scripture that condemns abortion, how can a Christian hold true to the Word of God and support abortion at the same time? It seems as though you would have to throw the word of God out the window to justify it. Please explain to me why I am wrong for having this point of view? I also want to clarify that I want to keep this discussion centered around the biblical justification. This is not a discussion about women's rights (unless you can show me in the Bible where woman have the right to an abortion). I also don't want to hear emotional responses or assertions without any biblical support or justification. I want to keep this centered around biblical truths in order to explain to me why pro-choice Christians are not disregarding the Word of God. Here are some examples of blatantly pro-life (anti-abortion) scripture.

God knew us before He formed us in the womb.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5)

God was an active role in our creation and formation in the womb.

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts, God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand—
when I awake, I am still with you. (Psalm 139:13-16)

The Old Testament Law says that whatever harm you cause to an unborn child, you will receive the same fate. Hence, the Old Testament Law prescribed the death penalty for someone who caused the death of a baby in the womb in the same way as someone committing murder would have been put to death. Clearly indicating that the life of an unborn child is just as valuable as any other human life.

“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise." (Exodus 21:22-25)

I AM PROLIFE - BUT I WILL PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE AND MAKE A BIBLICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR IT! I'm a little surprised at the lack of imagination etc. of people on the thread in reading the first few pages.... The deck is stacked against abortion but the Bible has many passages and someone who is willing to brainstorm can usually find something, besides just the Romans passage on conscience.


But here it goes.... Decades ago, IN the early 90s when at a friends house, who had a father who was extremely conservative (far right end of John Birch Society) the guy was ranting on and on about how abortion was murder. now I am and was against it, but thought that his position was too extreme based on the Bible.


In summary if you look at the Bible humans are expecting to reproduce (Early Genesis), and there are many passages in the OT that show that children are "a blessing from God". So clearly abortion from that perspective is not positive, it goes against nature etc.

But does it constitute murder? Prolife people like myself typically will point to passages that indicate "life begins at conception", the passage in the NT about Jesus "leaping in Mary's womb" being a frequently cited one. But if you want to talk about a passage that says something directly to the issue then I would say No!

The most direct passage that corresponds to modern abortion is a passage or two from the Pentateuch that covers a situation where a person causes a kind of abortion via a miscarriage.

Exodus 21:22
22If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely,but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows.


The fact that Bible does not require a death sentence here I find very telling! Because if you look throughout the Pentateuch, Yahew was not shy at handing out death sentences for many things.


Anyway based on this fact or set of facts, it is not hard to imagine some form of limited rational justification for abortion. I would say, health reasons would be the most reasonable one and likely one. But there could be others ones based on extreme situations e.g. - a woman lives in a society that practices honor killing and doesn't want her boy friend killed for sleeping with her etc.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

- You would have
- no authority over Me
- if it were not given to you
- from above.

authority - given to you
authority over Me

It's pretty clear.

We....must.....obey.....God......rather.....than....men!" (Acts 5:29)
Even clearer.
Also, here are the hundreds of other scriptures that you are ignoring.
What Does the Bible Say About Obedience To God?

Lastly, the passage that you keep coming back to is a declaration of Christ's authority over Government. This means that Christ is supreme over all. This includes local laws, God is supreme over them. Thus, his word is supreme over local laws.

"15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy."

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

About how God views abortion and in the context of whether causing death of the unborn would be viewed as wrong during the Old Testament era, how do you interpret Exodus 21:23-25: "23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."?

@SkyWriting, I am sorry that whatever unfortunate events that have happened in your life have happened, and I do agree that to an extent that sometimes people do things partly out of hurt, but I do not believe that excuses sin and I believe that while we should love our enemies I believe that we should be honest about sin

Yeah, it pretty much says that if you strike a woman and she miscarries, it would be the death penalty.

 

[usexpat97]

Exodus 21:22
22If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely,but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows.

That is not a Biblical justification for abortion--only a Biblical justification that abortion is a lesser offense than murder.