How Can Abortion Be Biblically Defended?

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Excellent questions. Now we're on track to finding out the New and Old.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Okay, go on. Now show me where "Thou shall not murder." is now optional under the new covenant.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Exodus 21:22
22If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5414.htm
The Misuse of Exodus 21:22–25 by Pro-Choice Advocates

Basically, the passage is saying that if you strike a woman and the baby is born prematurely but healthy and unharmed, the man is to be fined. But if there is injury to the baby, you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Essentially this means that it would be the death penalty if you caused a woman to miscarry.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

That is not a Biblical justification for abortion--only a Biblical justification that abortion is a lesser offense than murder.

I would almost go as far to say that abortion is equal to any other murder. I don't remember reading anything about greater or lesser murder.

 

[usexpat97]

I would almost go as far to say that abortion is equal to any other murder. I don't remember reading anything about greater or lesser murder.

The subject of this thread is to show biblical support for it: not what YOU would go so far as.

 

[SkyWriting]

Okay, go on. Now show me where "Thou shall not murder." is now optional under the new covenant.

Options like stoning, flaying, disembowelment, feeding to the Lions, and crucifiction?
Are you asking if these should all be used for girls who have abortions?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Options like stoning, flaying, disembowelment, feeding to the Lions, and crucifiction?
Are you asking if these should all be used for girls who have abortions?

No, I am asking if the command, "You shall not commit murder." now optional under the new covenant. Also, since you are now saying that much of God's Law is now obsolete, would you then concede that it wasn't obsolete prior to the New Covenant, lets say in Daniel's time? Particularly the command against worshiping other gods?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The subject of this thread is to show biblical support for it: not what YOU would go so far as.

Very well. Biblically, the life of the unborn is just as precious as any other human life. Thus, taking the life of the unborn with out cause or authority is murder.

 

[SkyWriting]

Very well. Biblically, the life of the unborn is just as precious as any other human life. Thus, taking the life of the unborn with out cause or authority is murder.

There is a practical issue here.

True story - A girl with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis (JRA) got sick when she was 9. She is considered a quadriplegic becasue all the joints in her body were damaged and she has limited motion left in every joint. So she never walks again. Her feet can touch the ground so she can pivot into bed with assistance from others, but she is no taller than she was at 9 becasue her bones stopped getting longer. She's not flexible enough or strong enough to get in and out of her electric wheelchair on her own. In college she goes to a school known for having very good wheelchair access and with her electric wheelchair, has a very active social life including lots of friends, good public transportation, dancing on the weekends, etc. With no experience using birth control, she gets pregnant at age 26. So does she consult with the majority rule on whether to bring the pregnancy to full term or not?

Do both her and her doctor merit murder charges if she decides that having some good dexterity in one hand, is just able to cradle a small baby, but not much more than that, is not suitable for raising a child since she is unable to stand or bend down in any way?

The vast majority of pregnancies are with able bodied girls, so is murder the right charge to hold against them all and their doctors and staff if they decide not to bring the baby to full term? JRA has inherited traits increasing the chance that the baby will have JRA as well. Guilty of murder? True Story. (I married her 4 years later, so I know some of the details.)

 

[usexpat97]

I had someone VERY close to me, it threatened the life of the mother. Not only did she not commit murder--she did the right thing.

 

[SkyWriting]

No, I am asking if the command, "You shall not commit murder." now optional under the new covenant. Also, since you are now saying that much of God's Law is now obsolete, would you then concede that it wasn't obsolete prior to the New Covenant, lets say in Daniel's time? Particularly the command against worshiping other gods?

I'm not good with history.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

The Misuse of Exodus 21:22–25 by Pro-Choice Advocates

Basically, the passage is saying that if you strike a woman and the baby is born prematurely but healthy and unharmed, the man is to be fined. But if there is injury to the baby, you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Essentially this means that it would be the death penalty if you caused a woman to miscarry.

I doubt that but I will ask about this on Jewish Stack Exchange. The way I see it the monetary fine is for the child, while the other passages cover if the woman was seriously injured or dies from the attack. It's only been in modern times, with modern health care that premature babies have had a good survival rate.


Well I will see what my Jewish friends have to say about it. I asked for Orthodox rabbinic interpretation since I know many Jews are very liberal on social issues.

Exodus 21:22–25 Relevance For the issue of abortion

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

There is a practical issue here.

True story - A girl with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis (JRA) got sick when she was 9. She is considered a quadriplegic becasue all the joints in her body were damaged and she has limited motion left in every joint. So she never walks again. Her feet can touch the ground so she can pivot into bed with assistance from others, but she is no taller than she was at 9 becasue her bones stopped getting longer. She's not flexible enough or strong enough to get in and out of her electric wheelchair on her own. In college she goes to a school known for having very good wheelchair access and with her electric wheelchair, has a very active social life including lots of friends, good public transportation, dancing on the weekends, etc. With no experience using birth control, she gets pregnant at age 26. So does she consult with the majority rule on whether to bring the pregnancy to full term or not?

Do both her and her doctor merit murder charges if she decides that having some good dexterity in one hand, is just able to cradle a small baby, but not much more than that, is not suitable for raising a child since she is unable to stand or bend down in any way?

The vast majority of pregnancies are with able bodied girls, so is murder the right charge to hold against them all and their doctors and staff if they decide not to bring the baby to full term? JRA has inherited traits increasing the chance that the baby will have JRA as well. Guilty of murder? True Story. (I married her 4 years later, so I know some of the details.)

1. There is a biblical issue that abortion is murder.
2. The motive for your denial is revealed.
3. Mercy killing an unborn child is still murder.
4. Did she not know that sex caused pregnancy?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I'm not good with history.

Not good with history? It is a simple question. Is "thou shalt not murder" an obsolete/optional commandment in the New Covenant? Did the command "thou shall have no other gods" apply to in the Old Covenant? If you cannot answer this simple question, I really dont think you are qualified to biblically defend abortion.

 

[SkyWriting]

1. There is a biblical issue that abortion is murder.
2. The motive for your denial is revealed.
3. Mercy killing an unborn child is still murder.
4. Did she not know that sex caused pregnancy?

I actually know a number of women and their stories. I'm a grown up.
If abortion is not murder in your local law today, then it is not murder.
Even in scripture.

Exodus 21:22-25
Numbers 5:11-31
Deuteronomy 28:18,53
2 Kings 8:12
2 Kings 15:16
Isaiah 13:18

#4 Doctors had told her she could not get pregnant. She was in hospitals for over 2 years.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not good with history? It is a simple question. Is "thou shalt not murder" an obsolete/optional commandment in the New Covenant? Did the command "thou shall have no other gods" apply to in the Old Covenant? If you cannot answer this simple question, I really dont think you are qualified to biblically defend abortion.

My opinions have absolutely no influence on your ability to post your opinion.
I can not screen you out, if I tried.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not good with history? It is a simple question. Is "thou shalt not murder" an obsolete/optional commandment in the New Covenant? Did the command "thou shall have no other gods" apply to in the Old Covenant? If you cannot answer this simple question, I really dont think you are qualified to biblically defend abortion.

So, before you ask more questions:

Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Luke 22:20
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Hebrews 8:6
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I actually know a number of women and their stories. I'm a grown up.
If abortion is not murder in your local law today, then it is not murder.
Even in scripture.

Exodus 21:22-25
Numbers 5:11-31
Deuteronomy 28:18,53
2 Kings 8:12
2 Kings 15:16
Isaiah 13:18

#4 Doctors had told her she could not get pregnant. She was in hospitals for over 2 years.

Sounds like a miracle baby then. The point is that murder is murder regardless of legality. The bottom line is what I have been saying since the beginning of this thread. Abortion is murder. No, I am not saying that women who have an abortion should be convicted of murder. But they and those who performed the abortion are guilty of murder.

Exodus 21:22-25
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

Note that the scripture is saying that if they baby is born prematurely but is healthy nonetheless, the man should be fined. However, if the baby is harmed, "eye for eye, tooth for tooth". Meaning, if she miscarries, the man is put to death.

Deuteronomy 28:18,53 - Miscarriages and cannibalism as punishment for disobedience and you are encouraging more disobedience? Notice that these are "curses" as a result of Israel's disobedience. This is something you could have easily seen if you actually read the chapters you are referencing rather than doing topical searches to data mine the scriptures you want. If you had actually took the time to read the passages in context you would see that in v. 15 it clearly says "However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you". Then it talks about miscarriages and cannibalism.

In regards to the other scriptures, did you even read the passages to understand the literary context at which they were written by reading the chapters they are located in? I assume you haven't because these are all passages that either state that "ripping open pregnant women" was wicked or was as a result of God's wrath for disobedience. These passages actually support the argument against abortion.

Listen, the bottom line is that abortion is murder. Your wife is guilty of murder. Pro-choice is pro-murder. Biblically, there is no other way around it. No, I am not saying she should be convicted because "he who is without sin may cast the first stone". I understand that you and your wife have a personal dilemma because of her decisions in the past. But just sin is sin and rationalizing it and making excuses for it is not the right choice. God will forgive her, but their has to be repentance, not excuses. Do you not see how dangerous this has become for you? In your attempts to rationalize, justify, and defend a sinful decision, you are on the record on this thread saying that: "local laws take priority over scripture"; Daniel was wrong for not praying to the King; Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were wrong to worship the golden image because it resulted in people being forced to show reverence to God; and we must receive the mark of the beast. Your attempt to biblically defend abortion is no different than someone trying to biblically defend prostitution because Rahab was a prostitute, adultery because David committed adultery, or idolatry because the Israelites worshiped a golden calf. Your distortion of scripture is a result of you trying to make the scriptures justify and excuse your wife.

 

[SkyWriting]

Sounds like a miracle baby then. The point is that murder is murder regardless of legality. The bottom line is what I have been saying since the beginning of this thread. Abortion is murder. No, I am not saying that women who have an abortion should be convicted of murder.

Such a wet noodle attitude! Wake up and read the scripture!

We can't have those guilty of murder on the streets,
so any woman that has had an abortion must be put to death
or in wimpy noodle states, life in prison.

I addition we will include any medical doctor and their associates
that were aware of this murder. Family members who are aware
of this murder will also be charged for aiding or planning these murders.
All murderers must be put to death. It's pretty simple.

Lesser crimes?

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.(Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

 

[Pavel Mosko]

delete

 

[SkyWriting]

Listen, the bottom line is that abortion is murder. Your wife is guilty of murder.

What are you going on about? My point was you will never be consulted. No pregnant woman has any value for your opinion. End of story.