frumanchu,
Does man cooperate in his birth?
What has that got to do with anything?
Given this statement, why is it that people become nearly apoplectic when it's pointed out that they advocate man's sovereignty over God? God does not need our permission do to anything, sojo.
If God is only able to perserve us if we permit Him to do so, then He is not really able. Think about it for a second...we would have to continually be willing to be preserved in faith in order for God to preserve us in faith. We would in essence be preserving ourselves in our faith, merely using God as an instrument. There is no point at all in ascribing any ability whatsoever to God because He is completely incapable of doing it apart from our permission.
Or is it that He's able but not necessarily willing?
Your last statement is almost correct. I'm sure God is able to do a lot of things. But in this case He is not willing either. He cannot by His own sovereignty. He created man specifically to perform this function. If God is going to do it for you, why create you in the first place. You become totally superfluous. Have no purpose whatsoever. Thus if God did what you want Him to do, He would violate His own sovereignty and He would have changed. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Man is not more sovereign than God, man does not overrule God's sovereignty, but man does fulfill His sovereign plan. He freely choses to accept (believe) and remain in that abiding faith, or reject Him. You will be held accountable for it. God is not going to judge Himself whether He gave you salvation or withheld it from you.
Never said that was the case.
Everything you have stated says this. Even your questions above make that statement. If it was otherwise, you would be explaining it the same way the Bible does which is anti OSAS and never speaks of our relationship as "saved" but being saved.
But wouldn't stumbling constitute falling out of alignment with His will? Aren't you in essence saying that as long you don't stumble He is fully able and will keep you from stumbling?
No, because we do that daily, in fact many times daily. It is referencing the concept that we should remain in the faith, by not rejecting, by not being so lax as to fall into total disobedience. When we do that, we are no longer on the right road and when we are not 'in faith' abiding in faith" we are no longer IN Christ and not being saved. Repentance gets us back, unless we die before we repent, that we again get aligned with Him. You are under the concept that we are saved, thus we become unsaved, in and out type of thing. We grow in faith which means we become better at staying in alignment. We persist in the spirit being more willing than the flesh to dominate our lives.
The way in which you are rendering these passages makes them completely meaningless. You are subordinating God's will and ability to man. Period. By your own words God is able only if man ALLOWS Him.
Precisely. Now you have the Biblical meaning of freedom through Christ. Adam put our human nature, the free will of man being created in His Image, was also corrupted. But even if man had been willing he would have been unable to have a Union with God before Christ came. Man did, because God had promised a Messiah to overcome the wrong of Adam. We were in an eternal bondage to death and sin. Adam was free to choose or reject God before he sinned. His will was not controlled, nor compelled.
Christ freed all of mankind from that bondage to death and sin. He freed us so we can also choose and reject Him by ourselves. We are no longer under Adam, but Christ. We have nothing to do with Adam any longer. We cannot blame him for anything. All the blame falls in each individual person in that God calls all men to repentance. All men will give an active answer to that call. They will accept, believe, follow, abide, or reject Him outright or not abide, lose faith.
Your view, not only violates God's express sovereign will, but makes man inhuman.
The whole of the NT speaks about how man, if he accepts Christ, can work with God, to overcome the powers of the flesh which remain with us. Christ did not eradicate either sin, sinful natures, nor sinful world. We will live with all of this and thus it is a struggle, we suffer from Christ's sake, to make sure the flesh does not dominate. That is why we are IN Christ so we have the help. But when we choose to reject or once believe, but leave, forwhatever reason, we also leave the help available. Sin separates man from God. Man, a believer, must continually reconcile himself with God by repentance.
When sin dominates, we do not seek repentance, we are willingly disobedient, we are no longer IN Christ. If not IN Christ, one is not being saved. Christ is the only way. We must remain IN HIM. Remaining IN Him is OUR responsibility. That is what we are accountable for, and God will not do it for you. If, in fact, it was up to Him, then we would all believe in Universal salvation as well and He is not only fully able, but also very willing that all be saved.
That was the long answer.
The short answer, - Man's will is free, independent of God's will. Man is subordinate to God's will, but God's will does not override man's. That is His will.