How can a person stay saved?

[TruthTeller2005]

For those who really think that salvation is at risk I ask these questions.



What are you doing TODAY to insure that you stay saved?



EXACTLY how might you loose your salvation?



Are you SURE that you are now saved, or ever were saved? And if so what is the BASIS for that assurance?



Can any person ever have ANY assurance of their salvation?



What book can you point to that tells about being saved then loosing salvation, and then regaining salvation?



Have you ever lied, cheated or stolen anything after you were born again? And if you did sin in thought, word or deed have you confessed every incident to God for forgiveness? Might these unconfessed sins that you forgot keep you out of heaven if you died suddenly in an auto wreck or of a heart attack?



What books, workshops, support groups and other resources are available to help a person from loosing their salvation? If this is a real risk and if there are many thousands of people that hold this position, then WHY are they not working together day and night to stay saved? Why have I not been invited urgently by them to join their ways to staying saved? Do they have any agreement on what needs to be done? Do they have half an idea how horrible hell is? Do they not love me enough to plead that I follow in their system?

 

[brotherjim]

We can know we will inherit eternal Life on Judgment Day--by being allowed into New Jerusalem and given access to the Tree of Life (Rev. 22:14)-- if we have truly committed in the Law of the Mind (Rom. 7) to allowing Grace to perfect us in the Love of God (1 John 2:3-5; 4:12).

"And we have known and believed the Love that God has to us. God is Love; and he that dwells in Love remains in God, and God in him.

"Herein is Love made perfect with us, that we may have boldness in the Day of Judgment: because as He is [perfect in Love], so are we in this world [if indeed we by Grace alone are].

"There is no fear in Love; but perfect Love casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears [the Day of Judgment] is not made perfect in Love."

1 John 4:16-18

 

[Bob L]

Can any person ever have ANY assurance of their salvation?

Yes, if they die having demonstrated to God that they truly were humble, loved him and obeyed him.

What are you doing TODAY to insure that you stay saved?

Humbly obeying almighty God and waiting to die. (Not in a morbid way.)

Are you SURE that you are now saved, or ever were saved?

Nope, I'm not dead, never have been.

EXACTLY how might you loose your salvation?

You can't. Once you're dead, ... you're dead.

Salvation, or more correctly eternal life (salvation literally means being kept from spiritual death) is not something that you have when you're alive in the body. When you die in the body you can go on to eternal life or eternal damnation but it's your spirit that goes. And only when you die.

 

[Van]

Truthteller, I think the above posts are asserting that there is no positional salvation, conversion, being born again, based on God spiritually baptizing believers into Christ during our physical life. Whatever these verses are talking about, it is not the meaning of the word salvation that they are using. Salvation is only the event after death where God judges us, separates the sheep from the goats.

I do not know how they respond to Ephesians 1:5 which says folks that are physically alive have been, past tense, saved. I am not sure how this view works, but apparently if you are a believer on the last day of your life, you have got it made. In the mean time, you can believe what you will and do what you will, it is only your faith when you die, so salvation is some sort of lotto. If a person dies with no chance to trust Jesus before thought ceases, the down elevator doors open. They seem to think even though Jesus bodily rose from the dead, they are still dead in their tresspasses.

Suffice to say, I have the same problem of the Calvinists, I have studied scripture and developed an understanding of what many verses teach, and so this view seems unsupportable.

 

[UMP]

[/size][/font]Yes, if they die having demonstrated to God that they truly were humble, loved him and obeyed him.

Mmmm, "having demonstrated to God". Please show me how this is not "works" ?? (specifically regarding "salvation" )

 

[Van]

1 John 4:16-18 NASB:
16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.


17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

Rather than teaching the absense of positional sanctification during our physical life, this passage actually supports positional sanctification.

If you look back at verse 15, John says whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God - and that group is called born again believers "in Christ" for - God abides in him - he is indwelt - and he in God - he has been spiritually baptized into Christ. So from the start, we are talking about folks who have been saved.

Now in verse 16, John explains how we came to be born again. We have come to know -we have heard the gospel of Christ and understood it, we have been enlightened - and have believed the love God has for us - For God so loved the world that He gave His one of a kind Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Now God is love so whoever abides in love abides in God and God in him. I think John is speaking here of the effect of being born again and indwelt, because one of the fruits of the Spirit is Love.

Verse 17, by this, being in Christ and Christ in us, love is perfected with us. I think the idea here is that as God is love, in Christ we become love ourselves, exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit. Even thought we fall short of the perfect image of Christ, because we are in Christ our love is completed or made perfect. And this condition, we bear the fruit of the Spirit and know that in Christ our imperfections are made perfect, we can have confidence now, during our life, that on that day, Jesus will will say, Welcome home, my faithful servant. Verse 18, because there is no fear in love, because the perfect love of God casts out all of our imperfections. The only folks that need to fear judgement are those who are not born again. Because we love God we fear God, we want to stay on His good side, but fear of loss of rewards and fear of discipline is a whole other deal from fear of spending an eternity in darkness.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

For those who really think that salvation is at risk I ask these questions. once a son always a son

What are you doing TODAY to insure that you stay saved? phil 3:13



EXACTLY how might you loose your salvation? can't



Are you SURE that you are now saved, or ever were saved? And if so what is the BASIS for that assurance? christ



Can any person ever have ANY assurance of their salvation? God's word

What book can you point to that tells about being saved then loosing salvation, and then regaining salvation? lets take the word out of context



Have you ever lied, cheated or stolen anything after you were born again? And if you did sin in thought, word or deed have you confessed every incident to God for forgiveness? Might these unconfessed sins that you forgot keep you out of heaven if you died suddenly in an auto wreck or of a heart attack? 1 john 1:8,10



What books, workshops, support groups and other resources are available to help a person from loosing their salvation? If this is a real risk and if there are many thousands of people that hold this position, then WHY are they not working together day and night to stay saved? Why have I not been invited urgently by them to join their ways to staying saved? Do they have any agreement on what needs to be done? Do they have half an idea how horrible hell is? Do they not love me enough to plead that I follow in their system?

once a son always a son

 

[DrBubbaLove]

being holy requires FAITH and WORKS. Like what Bob says.

 

[UMP]

being holy requires FAITH and WORKS. Like what Bob says.

The procurement of salvation is not of works. It is a free gift of God given to whom He chooses, unconditionaly. True "works" are an evidence of said gift and are not even from ourselves, they are from Christ living in us.

Ephesians 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

not like what Ump says

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

titus 3:5 and eph 2 says different

argue with God

 

[Romanbear]

Hi UMP;

The procurement of salvation is not of works. It is a free gift of God given to whom He chooses, unconditionaly.

Are you saying that men are saved with out requirements placed on them?
Do you mean they don't have to do anything at all. If this was true then all men either are saved or will be. With out condition there can be no difference between anyone so everyone will be saved.

True "works" are an evidence of said gift and are not even from ourselves, they are from Christ living in us.

I would have to disagree with this altogether. Our works is the surrender of our will to His. Our works is the willingness to be used by the Lord.
In Christ; Romanbear

 

[UMP]

Hi UMP;
Are you saying that men are saved with out requirements placed on them?
Do you mean they don't have to do anything at all. If this was true then all men either are saved or will be. With out condition there can be no difference between anyone so everyone will be saved.

Well, you show me how "dead men" can do ANYTHING, much less any sort of works.

Ephesians 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;

 

[Rebel Gnostic]

Hello. Here are my thoughts.

The reason why people don't remained saved is because most people haven't even understood what Jesus meant by salvation.

"Enter by the narrow gate: for the gate is wide and easy that leads to destruction, and many are they who take it; for the gate is narrow and the way is difficult that leads to life, and those who find it are few." -Matthew 7:13-14

Salvation lies in the elimination of all the undesirable elements we carry within, namely: the Seven Deadly Sins that Jesus drove out of the body of Mary Magdalene.

These sins are the Legion of psychic aggregates, "Me's" "Myself's" and "I's" that we possess within our own psychological interior.

Now you can understand clearly what was meant when the Christ, Jesus, asked the lunatic for his name... and the man replied, "We are Legion... because we are many."

So, from common sense, we can deduct that from each Deadly Sin was a host of psychic aggregates that constitute "Legion" within ourselves.

It would be interesting if people would seriously consider the "I" and grasp the bull by the horns, to understand how and why it works, with all its contradictions, perversities, and delusions.

But first, this requires that we awaken Consciousness, in order to percieve and understand this within ourselves, here and now.

Love not [psychological] sleep,
Lest thou come to [spiritual] poverty
Open thine eyes [of the consciousness]
[and] Thou shalt be satisfied with bread [of wisdom: Gnosis]
-Proverbs 20:13

 

[LLC3GUYS]

The only requirement that He has placed upon His salvation, is to accept the sacrifice of Jesus (the real "widow's mite"). Anything else is legalism, and a lie. The next choice is to "grow" and bear "fruit". This, He explains, is accomplished in one way, as well, -- by following and obeying. This obviously implies an "active" relationship, not one "resting" on the moment the relationship began, but growing and bearing the effects of a life of walking and talking with Him.

 

[ZACTAK]

Once you are saved, you are always saved, you cannot lose your salvation. You can step away from your walk, but as soon as you accept Jesus into your heart and learn the truth, you cannot lose your salvation.

 

[Stinker]

Once you are saved, you are always saved, you cannot lose your salvation. You can step away from your walk, but as soon as you accept Jesus into your heart and learn the truth, you cannot lose your salvation.

A truly born-again Christian just cannot abide in the defilements of the world for very long without returning to God. They keep coming back time after time. Now the Christian who has not actually been born again, will not have any difficullty at all in going back into the defilements of the world and it is these that leave the church assembly for good when the world's temptations snag them this second time.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

A truly born-again Christian just cannot abide in the defilements of the world for very long without returning to God. They keep coming back time after time. Now the Christian who has not actually been born again, will not have any difficullty at all in going back into the defilements of the world and it is these that leave the church assembly for good when the world's temptations snag them this second time.

But in your example, would it not matter if the Christain who was "abide in the defilements" died before having the chance to be "returning" to God?

 

[ZACTAK]

A truly born-again Christian just cannot abide in the defilements of the world for very long without returning to God. They keep coming back time after time. Now the Christian who has not actually been born again, will not have any difficullty at all in going back into the defilements of the world and it is these that leave the church assembly for good when the world's temptations snag them this second time.

Once a person accepts the oath to bring Jesus into their heart, they are saved. As I said before they may walk away from their faith and might even denounce that God exists, but they are still saved in the eyes of God.

 

[Stinker]

But in your example, would it not matter if the Christain who was "abide in the defilements" died before having the chance to be "returning" to God?

A truly born-again person fits in with the world like a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. People of the world do sense when there is a barrier between them and the born-again people. I believe this barrier is the presence of the Holy Spirit. Even if His influence is being quenched.