honey or vinegar?

[herev]

I have been castigated recently for being soft on sin. It's not that I'm for it, mind you, I just feel that speaking with condemnation and self-righteous judgmental indignation are no way to influence others. Since Winning Souls for Jesus is about influencing them, I feel we are better served to treat others with respect and Christian love before I tell them that their sins are an "abomination" in God's eyes.
The person attacking--yes attacking--me for my meekness has gone so far as to suggest that the people I have led to Christ through my ministry over the years may be bound for hell since they have recieved a "false gospel." He said he only wanted to "wake me up" so that I would move on towards reading the Bible for what it is intended and stop avoiding conflict with others.
Well, I'm awake!
I'm tired of self-righteous, judgemental, and mean-spirited people pushing away those non-believers who may have been ready to hear the Gospel, but now may never be open to hearing it. Just peruse the general apologetics forum and see how many atheists have been turned away because someone chose to begin their "witnessing" with words of condemnation. As I recall, Jesus reserved his harshest words for those of the religious establishment who spouted off rules while neglecting to show hospitality and love--the Pharisees. So who are the pharisees of today?
What do you think?
Do we follow in Jesus' footsteps best when we love and welcome without condoning or condemning, or should we tell them of their sins first, then tell them of the Gospel when they straighten up?

 

[Mini]

"A fool shows his annoyance but a prudent man overlooks the insult" Proverb 12 : 16

Herev,
Please forget about what this person has said. The idea behind being a Christian is to try annd live your life as closely to God as you can. Until you have gotten to know Jesus you cannot follow in his footsteps. Jesus refused to cast the first (or any) stone, so keep following in his footsteps. It is not our place to judge, but God's . Your job, as far as I can see, is to bring people closer to God. You are one of his shepherds.

I had my faith blown away by lies and false accusations last year. But my faith has been rebuilt stronger than ever. But it is still fragile sometimes. Faith needs to be nurtured like seedlings. Seedlings need very gentle handling and care. It is not until plants are mature that you can handle them roughly, and then some plants remain fragile all their lives. This person has failed to grasp this yet, which suggests that his faith is still frafile in at least one area.

I'll say a prayer for them.

Mini

 

[herev]

"A fool shows his annoyance but a prudent man overlooks the insult" Proverb 12 : 16

Herev,
Please forget about what this person has said. The idea behind being a Christian is to try annd live your life as closely to God as you can. Until you have gotten to know Jesus you cannot follow in his footsteps. Jesus refused to cast the first (or any) stone, so keep following in his footsteps. It is not our place to judge, but God's . Your job, as far as I can see, is to bring people closer to God. You are one of his shepherds.

I had my faith blown away by lies and false accusations last year. But my faith has been rebuilt stronger than ever. But it is still fragile sometimes. Faith needs to be nurtured like seedlings. Seedlings need very gentle handling and care. It is not until plants are mature that you can handle them roughly, and then some plants remain fragile all their lives. This person has failed to grasp this yet, which suggests that his faith is still frafile in at least one area.

I'll say a prayer for them.

Mini

thanks for the scripture--youre right of course, I'll get over it in short order--I actually hope not to forget it. He has done me a favor by opening my eyes further to the pain that we Christians cause in the name of Christ. But I am genuinely looking for others' opinions.
God Bless!

 

[muffler dragon]

Herev:

I'm sorry that such an atrocious consideration has been placed upon your heart and mind by someone else. What a shame!

I wish you well brother, and by the way, I voted for honey.

m.d.

 

[Polycarp1]

I have been castigated recently for being soft on sin. It's not that I'm for it, mind you, I just feel that speaking with condemnation and self-righteous judgmental indignation are no way to influence others. Since Winning Souls for Jesus is about influencing them, I feel we are better served to treat others with respect and Christian love before I tell them that their sins are an "abomination" in God's eyes.
The person attacking--yes attacking--me for my meekness has gone so far as to suggest that the people I have led to Christ through my ministry over the years may be bound for hell since they have recieved a "false gospel." He said he only wanted to "wake me up" so that I would move on towards reading the Bible for what it is intended and stop avoiding conflict with others.
Well, I'm awake!
I'm tired of self-righteous, judgemental, and mean-spirited people pushing away those non-believers who may have been ready to hear the Gospel, but now may never be open to hearing it. Just peruse the general apologetics forum and see how many atheists have been turned away because someone chose to begin their "witnessing" with words of condemnation. As I recall, Jesus reserved his harshest words for those of the religious establishment who spouted off rules while neglecting to show hospitality and love--the Pharisees. So who are the pharisees of today?
What do you think?
Do we follow in Jesus' footsteps best when we love and welcome without condoning or condemning, or should we tell them of their sins first, then tell them of the Gospel when they straighten up?

A great OP!! (I tried to rep. you for it and haven't repped. enough people since my previous rep. of you to do so with the board software.)

I think it's key that "all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and that His grace and forgiveness is available to all. And that we are called to love our fellow man as Christ loved and loves them, not to sit in judgment over whether they've exhibited sufficient repentance to be welcomed into our elite group.

Chalice Thunder's signature contains the words to a great old hymn, "There's a wideness in God's mercy," that is so germane here that if he doesn't see this and comment, I'll track down the hymn and post it.

And, like you, I fail to understand how Christians can read Jesus's condemnation of the Pharisees and fail to see their own actions as being a close modern parallel.

 

[Celticflower]

Herev,

I say love first, teach second. Otherwise you may seem to be doing some of the very things the person you are dealing with needs to change. And it is very hard to get someone to hear a gospel built on love if you start out with an attitude of condemnation. Keep shepherding the sheep Herev--I think you are doing just what you are supposed to.

Celtie

 

[muffler dragon]

Thus far in the scoring:

Herev and Honey: 8
Accusers and vinegar: Goose Egg.

Speaks volumes!!!!

m.d.

 

[PaladinValer]

Not that they are not sinners of course, but we shouldn't treat them like filth or lesser or "pity" them in any way, shape or form. They are people, not dogs, and tus they deserve our love, compassion, and our attention.

 

[herev]

I feel better already--thanks for giving me a pick-me-up!

 

[servant4ever]

If us Christians just condemn their sins, it will turn people away from Christianity because they will find nothing different from other religions. Jesus never condemned people for their sins. The book of Matthew even states that "Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you"" (NIV). Now Jesus made these prostitutes followers of Him by His love. Look at John 4, the woman at the well. She was a rejected woman and Jesus loved Her and she proclaimed the Good News to the Samaritans. Also, let's look at the woman caught in adultery. Jesus could have easily been the first person to stone her, but He told her to "go and sin no more." He loved her and I'm sure this changed her life.

servant4ever

 

[herev]

If us Christians just condemn their sins, it will turn people away from Christianity because they will find nothing different from other religions. Jesus never condemned people for their sins. The book of Matthew even states that "Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you"" (NIV). Now Jesus made these prostitutes followers of Him by His love. Look at John 4, the woman at the well. She was a rejected woman and Jesus loved Her and she proclaimed the Good News to the Samaritans. Also, let's look at the woman caught in adultery. Jesus could have easily been the first person to stone her, but He told her to "go and sin no more." He loved her and I'm sure this changed her life.

servant4ever

amen, another on the side of honey--welcome to the Pooh club

 

[Zona]

It seems to me that when Jesus met persons that recognized their own sin, He was gentle. Although, there are the times when He harshly dealt with people who were blind to their sin. I think, Herev, that your poll presents what is called a "false dilemma". In other words, it presents options that are not the only options and places them in such a way as to imply they are mutually exclusive.

You are correct in that all that we do be done in love, but at times love may mean using a whip for driving money changers from the temple courts.

 

[servant4ever]

But, the thing is, whenever Jesus treated people harshly for their sins, they were the people who were supposed to be right with God. Just as we are to confront another Christian about their sin (if we are not sinning in that area, that is, Matthew 7:1-5)), Jesus did that to the Jews. Since Jesus was perfect and He had the full right to cast the first stone, He didn't to the nonbeliever, but to the people who were part of the Jewish religion.

servant4ever

 

[Ainesis]

It seems to me that when Jesus met persons that recognized their own sin, He was gentle. Although, there are the times when He harshly dealt with people who were blind to their sin. I think, Herev, that your poll presents what is called a "false dilemma". In other words, it presents options that are not the only options and places them in such a way as to imply they are mutually exclusive.

You are correct in that all that we do be done in love, but at times love may mean using a whip for driving money changers from the temple courts.

This is absolutely true. If God is love, then everything He does is a reflection of that love, whether it feels good to us or not.

Tommy, maybe the basis of your disagreement with this individual, or their disagreement with you as the case may be, hinges on a proper definition of love?

 

[porcupine]

Herev,

I say love first, teach second.

Really? I guess Jesus got it wrong then.

Matthew 4:17
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[Celticflower]

Really? I guess Jesus got it wrong then.

Matthew 4:17
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Not wrong, don't be silly.
It just seems that he dealt with individuals with love, even when telling them they were in sin. You can tell someone to "repent" without getting nitpicking nasty about it.

Celtie

 

[herev]

Really? I guess Jesus got it wrong then.

Matthew 4:17
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

That was the way he preached, you are 100% correct, yet when he dealt with (one on one) the prostitute caught in sin, first he kept her from being stoned, next, he said he didn't condemn her, then he told her to go and sin no more.

 

[herev]

It seems to me that when Jesus met persons that recognized their own sin, He was gentle. Although, there are the times when He harshly dealt with people who were blind to their sin. I think, Herev, that your poll presents what is called a "false dilemma". In other words, it presents options that are not the only options and places them in such a way as to imply they are mutually exclusive.

You are correct in that all that we do be done in love, but at times love may mean using a whip for driving money changers from the temple courts.

very good point, Zona--I agree there is a time for righteous anger--Jesus always seemed to use it, however, when he dealt with those who misused their position of authority or their use of the temple. I haven't found a situation where the whip is the first course of action in dealing with outsiders who are lost in their sin. What do you think?
thanks for your input
Tommy

 

[herev]

It seems to me that when Jesus met persons that recognized their own sin, He was gentle. Although, there are the times when He harshly dealt with people who were blind to their sin. I think, Herev, that your poll presents what is called a "false dilemma". In other words, it presents options that are not the only options and places them in such a way as to imply they are mutually exclusive.

You are correct in that all that we do be done in love, but at times love may mean using a whip for driving money changers from the temple courts.

And as to the false delimma, that may be exactly my point in other posts where
I have been criticized. Despite the manner in which I created the poll, I find treating many issues as black and white is diminishing the gospel--so you nailed me on that one!

 

[herev]

This is absolutely true. If God is love, then everything He does is a reflection of that love, whether it feels good to us or not.

Tommy, maybe the basis of your disagreement with this individual, or their disagreement with you as the case may be, hinges on a proper definition of love?

perhaps, but I doubt it. He's determined to continue tormenting God's enemies, of which I think he feels I am one