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Homosexuality

Gusoceros

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Those are all self-destructive behaviors that every credible mental health foundation would recommend changing, not this though...they are ALL against it, and say it is irreversible.

Not true:

http://www.narth.com/menus/cstudies.html


http://www.shepherdinitiative.org/memWrite2.php

Yes, I believe my interpretations are correct.

Of course you do- as do I. We cant both be right.

God can "change" my sexual orientation? Yes, all is possible, but I don't see it happening, I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't see how God is looking to fix this, I know He doesn't care to fix it, and I am offended at the thought of changing a part of who I am. :mad:

It is not God's design to lead you into temptation, or to cause you to remain in sin. That is why He sent Jesus. When we die to ourselves, truly surrender- Jesus will replace us. We all struggle with this surrender- at least I do. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega- the beginning and the end- He is the end of your life of sin, and the beginning of new holy and righteous life. Your new beginning, is in Jesus. It is also your choice.

Why would you be offended at changing who you are? Isnt that the point of salvation?

G
 
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intricatic

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Those are all self-destructive behaviors that every credible mental health foundation would recommend changing, not this though...they are ALL against it, and say it is irreversible.
Doesn't matter. This is the same God who parted the sea and laid the foundations of the Earth.

12 Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.
(Hebrews 12)
 
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davedjy

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I have seen MANY studies, yet they all showed bias in many areas. Read and weep:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy




Of course you do- as do I. We cant both be right.
I first go by the fact that one cannot change, and after seeing many Gay Christian websites, I know that it isn't possible in 99% of cases. The reparative therapy success rate is less than 1%, that is a fact, and those cases are usually from those who were:

a)abused as a child
b)not shown enough same-sex attention
c)bisexual to begin with and amplified opposite sex feelings they ALREADY had

and if we aren't done there, it still only makes up less than 1%, what a joke.
The rest, do not fall in those categories, hence THOSE people weren't straight to begin with.


Why would you be offended at changing who you are? Isnt that the point of salvation?

G
I am saved, please don't even jest that I'm not,
that is against the rules of this particular forum, we are all believers.
If you had a big, fat nose, should you have to fix that? It's part of who I am, I don't want to fix it, and God doesn't have a problem with it, in a loving, monogamous relationship. I know this to be true now.
 
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Gusoceros

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I have seen MANY studies, yet they all showed bias in many areas. Read and weep:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy

Im sure you have seen a lot of studies- I presented some that were promising.

I first go by the fact that one cannot change,

How can people be saved then?

and after seeing many Gay Christian websites, I know that it isn't possible in 99% of cases.

God is limited to the results of websites?

The reparative therapy success rate is less than 1%, that is a fact, and those cases are usually from those who were:

a)abused as a child
b)not shown enough same-sex attention
c)bisexual to begin with and amplified opposite sex feelings they ALREADY had

and if we aren't done there, it still only makes up less than 1%, what a joke.
The rest, do not fall in those categories, hence THOSE people weren't straight to begin with.

The alternative is what?

I am saved, please don't even jest that I'm not, that is against the rules of this particular forum, we are all believers.

Why would you say this? I have not suggested anything remotely to that effect.

If you had a big, fat nose, should you have to fix that? It's part of who I am, I don't want to fix it, and God doesn't have a problem with it, in a loving, monogamous relationship. I know this to be true now.

Having a big fat nose, is not a sin.

the homosexual act, is a sin.

It sounds as if you do not WANT to change this part of your life?

G
 
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davedjy

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Im sure you have seen a lot of studies- I presented some that were promising.
How can people be saved then?
God is limited to the results of websites?

I go by results and how people were changed, and those results happen to show on many websites. Does that mean that people haven't been changed?

no, but you pulled a website for your studies, how hypocritical



Why would you say this? I have not suggested anything remotely to that effect.

Nvm, sorry then, but that is what it sounded like.



It sounds as if you do not WANT to change this part of your life?

G

I have tried changing it w/prayer in the past, so yeah, I don't believe God wants me to change, and I am in constant communion w/Him, and I know He doesn't care... As I said, I have gotten rid of the junk of the conservative poison thinking, and I'm done. I've accepted myself for who I am. What do you think, I need to go tidy up God and tell Him how I'm supposed to be? I've tried that many times, it doesn't work.

You don't even get it, but you like to pretend you do.

This discussion isn't about me, so let's get the discussion off me, I will not respond to personal attacks or questions like this at my sexuality.
 
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Gusoceros

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I go by results and how people were changed, and those results happen to show on many websites. Does that mean that people haven't been changed?

no, but you pulled a website for your studies, how hypocritical

Nvm, sorry then, but that is what it sounded like.

I have tried changing it w/prayer in the past, so yeah, I don't believe God wants me to change, and I am in constant communion w/Him, and I know He doesn't care... As I said, I have gotten rid of the junk of the conservative poison thinking, and I'm done. I've accepted myself for who I am. What do you think, I need to go tidy up God and tell Him how I'm supposed to be? I've tried that many times, it doesn't work.

You don't even get it, but you like to pretend you do.

This discussion isn't about me, so let's get the discussion off me, I will not respond to personal attacks or questions like this at my sexuality.

Naturally- there have been no personal attacks. I cant believe that God doesnt care, about us living in sin. Of course He does. Its not a conservative viewpoint sir- it is a Biblical viewpoint.

I have enjoyed our conversation. Thanks for remaining civil.

G
 
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pgp_protector

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If sex isnt a sin then how can being homosexual is?
Different Classes of A Set

Like All Apples Are Fruits, But Not All Fruits Are Apples

Some Sex is Not A Sin, But not All Sex is SinFree.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Not true:

http://www.narth.com/menus/cstudies.html




Of course you do- as do I. We cant both be right.



It is not God's design to lead you into temptation, or to cause you to remain in sin. That is why He sent Jesus. When we die to ourselves, truly surrender- Jesus will replace us. We all struggle with this surrender- at least I do. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega- the beginning and the end- He is the end of your life of sin, and the beginning of new holy and righteous life. Your new beginning, is in Jesus. It is also your choice.

Why would you be offended at changing who you are? Isnt that the point of salvation?

G

I think you should update yourself in regards to Narth. Exodus and even Dr Throckmorton have recently distanced themselves from this group. Their latest outrage was advocating that children with gender differences be exposed to teasing and ridicule. Comments were also made that Blacks were better off under slavery and that Gays can wwill themselves straight.
“There is another way, or other ways, to look at the race issue in America. Africa at the time of slavery was still primarily a jungle… Life there was savage … and those brought to America, and other countries, were in many ways better off.”
– Gerald Schoenewolf, a member of NARTH’s Science Advisory Committee.
 
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Gusoceros

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I think you should update yourself in regards to Narth. Exodus and even Dr Throckmorton have recently distanced themselves from this group. Their latest outrage was advocating that children with gender differences be exposed to teasing and ridicule. Comments were also made that Blacks were better off under slavery and that Gays can wwill themselves straight.

thanks for the note- I was not aware of these things- its been a while since I have gone into this topic.

G
 
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davedjy

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I think you should update yourself in regards to Narth. Exodus and even Dr Throckmorton have recently distanced themselves from this group. Their latest outrage was advocating that children with gender differences be exposed to teasing and ridicule. Comments were also made that Blacks were better off under slavery and that Gays can wwill themselves straight.
While they may differ on that subject, they still are terrible w/their analogies. You cannot change who you are, and this is a very personal part and it is in the wiring somewhere in the brain.
 
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Gusoceros

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While they may differ on that subject, they still are terrible w/their analogies. You cannot change who you are, and this is a very personal part and it is in the wiring somewhere in the brain.

We'll just have to agree to disagree- it is my firm belief, that God can - and does - change this.

G
 
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chris777

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As I already told you, I do agree with design, I'm not arguing Adam and Steve, for crying out loud. I am saying as a result of their sin coming into the world, not only do we get tempted but we have defect. I don't believe God expects us to change, and if He does, that isn't a God I want to serve, I would rather go to hell, yes HELL
Brother I have experienced something very similar to Hell, and trust me when I tell you that you do not want to Go there.
I am not even sure what happened to me, but I was being switched from one pain medication, to another, and at first, it seemed a blessing, I was even thinking of asking my doctor to double the dosage, then on the third day I began to burn a little At first I didn't thik much of it, as I have had burning pain on occasion before, then the next morning I woke up feeling a little rough like when you are about to come down with the flu or something. So when the family went off for errands I stayed home, 15 minutes later my whole body was on Fire, my very flesh was burning from the inside out, my bones felt like they were expanding, and then the pain radiated out into the rest of my flesh, it was near maddening, I burned for 4 hours straight, If I thought I could have drove myself I would have went to the emergency Room, then it eased up, So I waited, then 2 or 3 hours later it started again. This lasted for approximately one month, and slowly eased off of the cycling during that time. I also had fever, nausea , and chills. I was incredibly weak, and everything fatigued me. once the cycling passed, the pain level I had was aproximately triple to what I had before the reaction. I have not gotten much better since, and this was in Nov 2004. It cost me my job, and my "life".
The doctors were clueless and did little to nothing to help me, they tripled my old pain medicine, which was now useless, even if I tripled the dosage. But It has taught me paitence, and given me a taste of the fire, something I do not wish to experience again.
I used to crack jokes about wanting morphine, the medicine that did this to me was aproximately 70-100 times more potent. And now I experience no relief, I cannot remember what it was like to be without pain. But I also realize that this is all temporary. Hell is not.
What you describe about God is you desire to conform his will to your own. and if he rejects then You reject him. Do you not see a problem with this? No matter what issue you might disagree with?
God's design is tainted because of ADAM AND EVE'S free will and how they brought corruption and defect into this world. If God really wanted to change it, He would not allow homosexuality to be born into the bloodline to start. Lots of HIS creations already show these tendencies, and He doesn't stop it. So you are saying it is perverted in humans? Whatever...it's a bunch of conservative garbage crap and I am through with it. I don't like anyone who flaunts their sexuality, but I am seeing more and more why those parades exist, and I can't stand anything to do w/the gay cultural stuff (feminine walking, talking, wearing high heel shoes, etc), but nonetheless I get why they march in those parades.

Heck if I have to hold up picket signs, I might...I am SO sick of people trying to change others.
.
Adam and Eve may have brought sin into the world, but we are not told to enjoy or partake in it. It should revulse us. You said you struggle, We all have , we are told we will suffer in this life.
Don't let it harden your heart.
You have already explained how you personally view the scriptures, All I can Do is pray that it might change.
But please consider what it is you are saying, when you speak of rejecting God, the alternative is not really any sort of choice. That anyone that knows better would make.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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We'll just have to agree to disagree- it is my firm belief, that God can - and does - change this.

G


You are correct. I have heard talk that Exodus has been rethinking their use of the term "Exgay" Because they know that it is not true.
 
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davedjy

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Brother I have experienced something very similar to Hell, and trust me when I tell you that you do not want to Go there.

Hell is not a motivating factor, I believe in OSAW (once saved always saved), I don't believe it is a sin anyways, so I am not looking for a license to sin.

I Adam and Eve may have brought sin into the world, but we are not told to enjoy or partake in it. It should revulse us. You said you struggle, We all have , we are told we will suffer in this life.
Don't let it harden your heart.
You have already explained how you personally view the scriptures, All I can Do is pray that it might change.
But please consider what it is you are saying, when you speak of rejecting God, the alternative is not really any sort of choice. That anyone that knows better would make.

I made the distinction already, I don't mean the sin temptation, I mean the sin defect. I believe this is part of the sin defect(birth abnormalities), which is not wrong.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Brother I have experienced something very similar to Hell, and trust me when I tell you that you do not want to Go there.
I am not even sure what happened to me, but I was being switched from one pain medication, to another, and at first, it seemed a blessing, I was even thinking of asking my doctor to double the dosage, then on the third day I began to burn a little At first I didn't thik much of it, as I have had burning pain on occasion before, then the next morning I woke up feeling a little rough like when you are about to come down with the flu or something. So when the family went off for errands I stayed home, 15 minutes later my whole body was on Fire, my very flesh was burning from the inside out, my bones felt like they were expanding, and then the pain radiated out into the rest of my flesh, it was near maddening, I burned for 4 hours straight, If I thought I could have drove myself I would have went to the emergency Room, then it eased up, So I waited, then 2 or 3 hours later it started again. This lasted for approximately one month, and slowly eased off of the cycling during that time. I also had fever, nausea , and chills. I was incredibly weak, and everything fatigued me. once the cycling passed, the pain level I had was aproximately triple to what I had before the reaction. I have not gotten much better since, and this was in Nov 2004. It cost me my job, and my "life".
The doctors were clueless and did little to nothing to help me, they tripled my old pain medicine, which was now useless, even if I tripled the dosage. But It has taught me paitence, and given me a taste of the fire, something I do not wish to experience again.
I used to crack jokes about wanting morphine, the medicine that did this to me was aproximately 70-100 times more potent. And now I experience no relief, I cannot remember what it was like to be without pain. But I also realize that this is all temporary. Hell is not.
What you describe about God is you desire to conform his will to your own. and if he rejects then You reject him. Do you not see a problem with this? No matter what issue you might disagree with?

Adam and Eve may have brought sin into the world, but we are not told to enjoy or partake in it. It should revulse us. You said you struggle, We all have , we are told we will suffer in this life.
Don't let it harden your heart.
You have already explained how you personally view the scriptures, All I can Do is pray that it might change.
But please consider what it is you are saying, when you speak of rejecting God, the alternative is not really any sort of choice. That anyone that knows better would make.


So you belive that a loving God is going to sit by and watch us writhing in pain and screaming in horror, because we are attracted to the same gender? Answer me this question; If your children disobey you, could you put them in a furnace and sit by and watch as their skinned burned off their flesh and they screamed and begged you for help? We you find this Loving? just curious
 
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davedjy

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So you belive that a loving God is going to sit by and watch us writhing in pain and screaming in horror, because we are attracted to the same gender? Answer me this question; If your children disobey you, could you put them in a furnace and sit by and watch as their skinned burned off their flesh and they screamed and begged you for help? We you find this Loving? just curious
Reps for you brother, wow, what a point!
 
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PinkTulip

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So you belive that a loving God is going to sit by and watch us writhing in pain and screaming in horror, because we are attracted to the same gender? Answer me this question; If your children disobey you, could you put them in a furnace and sit by and watch as their skinned burned off their flesh and they screamed and begged you for help? We you find this Loving? just curious
If your child were playing with matches or trying to light the house on fire, would you not punish them? Or how about playing out in traffic? Would you find it loving to let them do whatever they wanted?
 
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