That is correct. It is attributing something of God to Satan.
And this is were Catholicism and protestanism differ.
We actually have the hope of being perfected on this side of heaven.
protestants.
Peace
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
-
We hope the site problems here are now solved, however,
if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us
Hocus Pocus ????
- Thread starter Tyndale
- Start date
- Status
We actually have the hope of being perfected on this side of heaven.
protestants.
Peace
Faith cannot be objectively proven. It can not be quantified. That's my point. You can not objectively prove your faith. No Christian can.
Exactly my point. You have no faith that they will pray with and for you. Hince there's no point in me providing Scriptures to try and objectively prove the Catholic faith in the intercesssion of the Saints. It can't be done. One either belives it or not.
I can only explain it as best as I can.
As long as we have the same definition of prayer, intercession and mediator.
Any person that prays for another is an intecessor and mediator.
This includes the Saints in heaven.
The answer to your question is yes. I have done so in the past and have gotten answers. I can't deny these experiences.
The Saints are neither. But my point in listing those is that there are no medical records that objectively prove that that Mary was indeed a Virgin. We belive it by faith.
The same with the Trinity and ressurection. Neither can be quantified and proven objectively. We belive it by faith.
It's those books which are not found in the protestant bibles but in Catholic Bibles.
Praying to a Saint is not a round about way to pray to God. I could be wrong but this is the sence that I'm getting from your post.
Praying to a Saint is praying with one and them praying for you to God. The same way you would ask a friend to pray with and for you for something.
They don't need to know everything about a you to do it.
They can also pray for you when you can't pray for yourself, because maybe you are doing something that prevents you from praying at that time. Like taking a nap. Or maybe, your at work.
The Saints can do the samething.
Being omniscient is knowing everything. A Saint does not need to know everything to hear prayers to them.
IMHO. They know alot more then us, because they are in heaven and have been perfected.
Being omnipotent means being all powerfull. I'm speculating that this has to do with them answering prayers.
At first analysis this is not logical. There's no point in having multiple Saints being omnipotent.
We do belive that certain Saints have certain gifts given to them by God. Hince you will often hear a Saint being a patron Saint of hopeless causes or being a patron Saint of the Family.
It's like asking a friend who you belive has a God given gift for something. Like maybe healing or the gift of discernment.
But we have to keep in mind that God is in control and there are times that prayers to Saints are not answered.
God is the one that either answered prayers or not or answers them in way that is best for us regardless of what we may think at the time.
Peace
Upvote
0
Gary51
Senior Veteran
- Sep 4, 2007
- 5,182
- 232
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Private
Hey I'm with you, I try and go right to the top myself, of course I can always use other Christians praying for me, and I'm uncomfortable with the idea of asking dead people for prayer, but then as a friend pointed out "They are more alive now then when they walked among us." that kind of put a different perspective on it for me.
tulc(who only asks people here on Earth to pray for him, but doesn't have a problem with those who ask those in Heaven for prayer also)
That part
Please explain.
Upvote
0
The Bible is very clear that the dead pray for us.
However, where Roman Catholicism is wrong is that it insists that we're to pray to the dead, when the Bible condemns such an act.
And those who answered you are what the Bible calls "familiar spirits".
No, we believe it because God said so.
No, we believe it because God said so.
So why believe in those books that contradict the Christian Bible?
I agree. Praying to the dead is no way to pray to God. It's just a way to practice idolatry and necromancy.
[quotePraying to a Saint is praying with one and them praying for you to God. The same way you would ask a friend to pray with and for you for something.[/quote]
The difference, of course, is that the Bible doesn't condemn asking a friend to pray with you. It does, however, condemn praying to anyone other than God and praying to the dead.
And, like most Roman Catholic beliefs, there is nothing in the Bible to support this.
Prayers to the saints are never answered by God or by the dead saint. If they're answered at all, they're answered by demons masquerading as dead saints.
Upvote
0
Then why does the Bible say that we won't be perfected?
Who do you believe was the last sinless Roman Catholic?
Upvote
0
Paul says 'we are surrounded by them'. That doesn't exactly sound like they are living a totally separate existence does it? How can they 'surround' us if they have no awareness of us?
Also, unlike Moses, we do not come to God as a terrifying mountain that cannot be touched. We come to the city of Jerusalem, where all those who have gone before us are. "But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. "
We are not separate from the body of Christ. Our relationship with Jesus is not personal to the exclusion of his body, his entire body. His body is not separated or pulled into two entities -- those who live here on earth and those who live in heaven. It is one body. When approaching God as Christians, we come to the city of the living God, which includes all of those who have gone before us and have been perfected, and those of us who are still running the race. We worship within the context of the body of Christ, not as individuals one-on-one with God, whether we choose to recognize that or not. We are called to build up the body, not just worry about our own personal salvation, and there is no indication from scripture that our responsibility to the rest of the body of Christ ends at our death.
Upvote
0
I find it extremely interesting that people believe that the saints can't possibly hear us because if they could it would mean that they are omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, yet have no trouble believing that demons can hear these prayers and answer them.
So which is it -- do you have to be omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent to hear our prayers and saints do not possess these qualities but demons do?
Or do you not have to be omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent to hear the prayers of the living?
Upvote
0
And when did I say that they have no awareness of us?
The Bible says that there is a gulf between the living and dead that cannot be crossed. It also tells us that God condemns praying to the dead and necromancy.
The dead are dead. The living are living. And never the twain shall meet.
Upvote
0
First of all, I never said that the dead cannot hear us.
What I said is that, whether or not they can hear us does not negate the fact that God has forbidden us from contacting them.
Second, dead humans are dead humans. Demons are fallen angels. They are two different orders of beings with different abilities and existing on two different levels.
Dead saints are dead. Demons are not.
The Bible tells us that the Devil and his angels are at work in this world, while the dead are not.
Upvote
0
T
Thekla
Guest
Christ, by the cross and resurrection has "bridged" this gulf; he "recapitulates" (as in "headship"), to use Paul's term, all. In Him, His body, all are united.
Upvote
0
tulc
loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
That part is I don't believe what I believe is the only way to believe. We see in part and we know in part, to me? That means no matter how much we'd like to have God all squared away, He tends to cross whatever line we draw in the sand and when we say "This side is Gods side, that side is wrong." He tends to suddenly show-up "over there" blessing and using them as much as us. and sometimes more then us
tulc(see what I mean?)
Upvote
0
Gary51
Senior Veteran
- Sep 4, 2007
- 5,182
- 232
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Private
No I dont see what you mean... But I do see that you would like to cloud the issue.That part is I don't believe what I believe is the only way to believe. We see in part and we know in part, to me? That means no matter how much we'd like to have God all squared away, He tends to cross whatever line we draw in the sand and when we say "This side is Gods side, that side is wrong." He tends to suddenly show-up "over there" blessing and using them as much as us. and sometimes more then us
tulc(see what I mean?)
Originally Posted by tulc
Hey I'm with you, I try and go right to the top myself, of course I can always use other Christians praying for me, and I'm uncomfortable with the idea of asking dead people for prayer, but then as a friend pointed out "They are more alive now then when they walked among us." that kind of put a different perspective on it for me.
tulc(who only asks people here on Earth to pray for him, but doesn't have a problem with those who ask those in Heaven for prayer also)
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
