Historicism - The Reformers eschatology

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Site Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,935
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟531,725.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟784,067.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
  • Winner
Reactions: JM
Upvote 0

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Site Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,935
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟531,725.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Beza's testimony is consistent with that of all true Reformers, as I've described.

He believed in neither a pretrib rapture nor a futurized antichrist.
But he was definitely a futurist.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟784,067.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But he was definitely a futurist.

Absent those two beliefs, I'm surprised you consider him a futurist. Evidently the bar is pretty low.

I believe in a future Second Coming. Do I qualify as a futurist too?
 
Upvote 0

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,022
✟102,598.00
Faith
Christian
Absent those two beliefs, I'm surprised you consider him a futurist. Evidently the bar is pretty low.

I believe in a future Second Coming. Do I qualify as a futurist too?
Everyone with some sanity of mind must be a futurist too.
2 thessalonians 2 describes our being gathered to Him and the Lord's return.
At His return Christ destroys who-what exactly? Well Satan for one thing, we know Satan is still roaming this earth, so he has not yet been destroyed because Christ has not yet returned. Breath of His mouth AND brightness of His coming are the same event. The second return coming of Christ is also the time of our rapture gathering to Christ. the Day has not yet come, cause we are still here and Satan is still roaming and deceiving the nations. Michael the archangel is the restrainer, not the Holy Spirit and not saved people. If there is no rapture before that DAY of Christ, then the restrainer can not be the Holy Spirit as Christ's promise is to never leave His people alone. That only leaves an angelic superpower and Michael and his angels fight the devil and his angels and they always prevail, it is a natural fit.

2 Thessalonians 2 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
Upvote 0

JM

Augsburg Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,361
3,628
Canada
✟747,724.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Pope Pius IX said “I alone… am the successor of the apostles, the vicar of Jesus Christ. I am the way, the truth, and the life…” (Source: History of the Christian Church, by Henry Charles Sheldon, p. 59.)

Pope Boniface VIII said “We declare, say, define, and pronounce, that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Source: Bull “Unam Sanctum,” as cited in “Apostolic Digest, Book V: The Book of Obedience”)

Current Pope Francis I said “You cannot find Jesus outside the Church.” (Source: EWTN Global Catholic News, pronounced on April 23 in the Apostolic Palace’s Pauline Chapel.)

(J.C. Ryle, “Idolatry!“)

“My dearly beloved, flee from idolatry!” 1 Corinthians 10:14

Romanism is a gigantic system of sacrament-worship, Mary-worship, saint-worship, image-worship, relic-worship, and priest-worship! In one word, Romanism is a huge organized idolatry!

I know how painful these things sound to many ears. To me it is no pleasure to dwell on the shortcomings of any who profess and call themselves Christians. I can say truly that I have said what I have said with pain and sorrow.

I believe that many a poor Catholic at this day is worshiping with an idolatrous worship, simply because he knows no better. He has no Bible to instruct him. He has no faithful minister to teach him. I remember all this; and I say that the Catholic eminently deserves our sympathy and compassion.

But all this must not prevent my saying that the Church of Rome is an idolatrous Church. I would not be faithful if I said less.

My own conscience would rebuke me if I did not warn men plainly that the Church of Rome is an idolatrous Church, and that if they will join her, they are “joining themselves to idols!”

That heart can hardly be right with God, which can think of the millions who are sunk in heathenism, or honor the false prophet Mahomet, or daily offer up prayers to the Virgin Mary — and not cry, “O my God, what shall the end of these things be? How long, O Lord, how long?”

Christ rightly known, Christ truly believed, and Christ heartily loved — is the true preservative against ritualism, Romanism and every form of idolatry!

“The connection between the Mysteries and the paganised Christianity of later Roman times is clear enough when the evidence is examined; their connection with early Babylonian religion is less clear, but it is part of our present purpose to indicate some evidence for such a connection.”

Read more here: F. F. Bruce: Babylon and Rome

Papal simony.

Inferno: Canto XIX

O Simon Magus, O forlorn disciples,
Ye who the things of God, which ought to be
The brides of holiness, rapaciously
For silver and for gold do prostitute,
Now it behoves for you the trumpet sound,
Because in this third Bolgia ye abide.
We had already on the following tomb
Ascended to that portion of the crag
Which o’er the middle of the moat hangs plumb.
Wisdom supreme, O how great art thou showest
In heaven, in earth, and in the evil world,
And with what justice doth thy power distribute!
I saw upon the sides and on the bottom
The livid stone with perforations filled,
All of one size, and every one was round.
To me less ample seemed they not, nor greater
Than those that in my beautiful Saint John
Are fashioned for the place of the baptisers,
And one of which, not many years ago,
I broke for some one, who was drowning in it;
Be this a seal all men to undeceive.
Out of the mouth of each one there protruded
The feet of a transgressor, and the legs
Up to the calf, the rest within remained.
In all of them the soles were both on fire;
Wherefore the joints so violently quivered,
They would have snapped asunder withes and bands.
Even as the flame of unctuous things is wont
To move upon the outer surface only,
So likewise was it there from heel to point.
“Master, who is that one who writhes himself,
More than his other comrades quivering,”
I said, “and whom a redder flame is sucking?”
And he to me: “If thou wilt have me bear thee
Down there along that bank which lowest lies,
From him thou’lt know his errors and himself.”
And I: “What pleases thee, to me is pleasing;
Thou art my Lord, and knowest that I depart not
From thy desire, and knowest what is not spoken.”
Straightway upon the fourth dike we arrived;
We turned, and on the left-hand side descended
Down to the bottom full of holes and narrow.
And the good Master yet from off his haunch
Deposed me not, till to the hole he brought me
Of him who so lamented with his shanks.
“Whoe’er thou art, that standest upside down,
O doleful soul, implanted like a stake,”
To say began I, “if thou canst, speak out.”
I stood even as the friar who is confessing
The false assassin, who, when he is fixed,
Recalls him, so that death may be delayed.
And he cried out: “Dost thou stand there already,
Dost thou stand there already, Boniface?
By many years the record lied to me.
Art thou so early satiate with that wealth,
For which thou didst not fear to take by fraud
The beautiful Lady, and then work her woe?”
Such I became, as people are who stand,
Not comprehending what is answered them,
As if bemocked, and know not how to answer.
Then said Virgilius: “Say to him straightway,
‘I am not he, I am not he thou thinkest.'”
And I replied as was imposed on me.
Whereat the spirit writhed with both his feet,
Then, sighing, with a voice of lamentation
Said to me: “Then what wantest thou of me?
If who I am thou carest so much to know,
That thou on that account hast crossed the bank,
Know that I vested was with the great mantle;
And truly was I son of the She-bear,
So eager to advance the cubs, that wealth
Above, and here myself, I pocketed.
Beneath my head the others are dragged down
Who have preceded me in simony,
Flattened along the fissure of the rock.
Below there I shall likewise fall, whenever
That one shall come who I believed thou wast,
What time the sudden question I proposed.
But longer I my feet already toast,
And here have been in this way upside down,
Than he will planted stay with reddened feet;
For after him shall come of fouler deed
From tow’rds the west a Pastor without law,
Such as befits to cover him and me.
New Jason will he be, of whom we read
In Maccabees; and as his king was pliant,
So he who governs France shall be to this one.”
I do not know if I were here too bold,
That him I answered only in this metre:
“I pray thee tell me now how great a treasure
Our Lord demanded of Saint Peter first,
Before he put the keys into his keeping?
Truly he nothing asked but ‘Follow me.’
Nor Peter nor the rest asked of Matthias
Silver or gold, when he by lot was chosen
Unto the place the guilty soul had lost.
Therefore stay here, for thou art justly punished,
And keep safe guard o’er the ill-gotten money,
Which caused thee to be valiant against Charles.
And were it not that still forbids it me
The reverence for the keys superlative
Thou hadst in keeping in the gladsome life,
I would make use of words more grievous still;
Because your avarice afflicts the world,
Trampling the good and lifting the depraved.
The Evangelist you Pastors had in mind,
When she who sitteth upon many waters
To fornicate with kings by him was seen;
The same who with the seven heads was born,
And power and strength from the ten horns received,
So long as virtue to her spouse was pleasing.
Ye have made yourselves a god of gold and silver;
And from the idolater how differ ye,
Save that he one, and ye a hundred worship?
Ah, Constantine! of how much ill was mother,
Not thy conversion, but that marriage dower
Which the first wealthy Father took from thee!”
And while I sang to him such notes as these,
Either that anger or that conscience stung him,
He struggled violently with both his feet.
I think in sooth that it my Leader pleased,
With such contented lip he listened ever
Unto the sound of the true words expressed.
Therefore with both his arms he took me up,
And when he had me all upon his breast,
Remounted by the way where he descended.
Nor did he tire to have me clasped to him;
But bore me to the summit of the arch
Which from the fourth dike to the fifth is passage.
There tenderly he laid his burden down,
Tenderly on the crag uneven and steep,
That would have been hard passage for the goats:
Thence was unveiled to me another valley.

Spurgeon:

Of all the dreams that ever deluded men, and probably of all blasphemies that ever were uttered, there has never been one which is more absurd and which is more fruitful for all manner of mischief, than the idea that the Bishop of Rome can be the head of the church of Jesus Christ. No, these popes die, and how could the church live if its head were dead? The true Head ever lives, and the church ever lives in Him.

Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit Volume 14 p. 621

A man who deludes other people, by degrees comes to delude himself. The deluder first makes dupes of others and then becomes a dupe to himself. I should not wonder but what the pope really believes that he is infallible, and that he ought to be saluted as “his holiness.” It must have taken him a good time to arrive at that eminence of self-deception, but he has gotten to that by now, and everyone who kisses his toe or hand confirms him in this insane idea.

Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Volume 21. p. 413

Christ did not redeem his church with his blood that the pope might come in and steal away the glory. He never came from heaven to earth, and poured out his very heart that he might purchase his people, that a poor sinner, a mere man, should be set upon high to be admired by all the nations, and to call himself God’s representative on earth. Christ has always been the Head of the church.

Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Volume 60, p. 592
 
Upvote 0

JM

Augsburg Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,361
3,628
Canada
✟747,724.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Video – Canada – News – MSN CA

Pope: ‘Who am I to judge’ gay people? – News – MSN CA

Pope’s remarks seen as good step toward inclusion – U.S. News




“The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can… “The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”.. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.” – Pope (aka antichrist)

source video: Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics | HuffPost

“… this apostasy was to have a head, and the coming and character of that head are the great subject of Paul’s Thessalonian prophecy. A mistaken apprehension of his first letter to them had led the Thessalonians to expect an immediate advent of Christ, and in his second epistle Paul sets himself to correct this error by further instruction as to the future. He tells them of something that was destined to precede the return of Christ, a great apostasy, which would reach its climax in the manifestation of a certain mighty power of evil; to which he attaches three names, and of which he gives many particulars similar to those which Daniel gave of his “little horn,” such as the place and time of its origin, its nature, sphere, character, conduct, and doom.

The names which the apostle gives to this head of the apostasy in this prophecy are “that man of sin, . . . the son of perdition,” and “that wicked” or “lawless” one. These expressions might convey to the mind of superficial readers the idea that the predicted head of the apostasy would be an individual. Careful study however shows this to be a false impression—an impression for which there is no solid foundation in the passage. The expressions themselves, when analysed grammatically, are seen to bear another signification quite as well, if not better, and the context demands that they be understood in a dynastic sense. “The man of sin,” like “the man of God,” has a broad, extended meaning. When we read “that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works,” we do not suppose it means any one individual man, although it has the definite article. It indicates a whole class of men of a certain character, succession of similar individuals. The use of the definite article (analogous to the omission of the article in Greek) does indeed limit an expression of the kind. A man of sin could be only one, just as a king of England could mean only an individual. The king, on the other hand, may include a whole dynasty. A king has but the life of an individual, the king never dies. When, in speaking of the Jewish tabernacle in Hebrews, Paul says that into the holiest of all “went the high priest alone once every year,” he includes the entire succession of the high priests of Israel. That a singular expression in a prophecy may find its fulfilment in a plurality of individuals is perfectly clear from John’s words, “As ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even so now are there many antichrists”

Any doubt or ambiguity as to the true force of the expression “the man of sin” is however removed by a consideration of the context of this passage. Grammatically it may mean either an individual or a succession of similar individuals. The context determines that it actually does mean the latter. “The mystery of iniquity,” in which this man of sin was latent, was already working in Paul’s day. The apostasy out of which he was to grow was already in existence. “The mystery of iniquity doth already work.” The man of sin, on the other hand, was to continue till the second advent of Christ, which is still future; for he is destroyed, as it is distinctly stated, only by the brightness of the epiphany. The interval between Paul’s days and those of the still future advent was then to be filled by the great apostasy in either its incipient working as a mystery of iniquity or its open manifestation and great embodiment in the career of ” the man of sin and son of perdition.” That career must consequently extend over more than a thousand years, for the process of gestation is certainly briefer than the duration of life. In this case of the man of sin the two together occupy at least eighteen centuries. What proportion of the period can we assign to the hidden, mysterious growth of this power, and what to its wonderfully active and influential life? The life must of course occupy the larger half, to say the least of it, and therefore, as no individual lives on through ages, we may be sure that it is a succession of men, a dynasty of rulers, that is intended by the ambiguous expression. We, students of the nineteenth century, may be sure of this, though the students of early centuries could not.”

Romanism and the Reformation: From the Standpoint of Prophecy by Henry Grattan Guinness

Some audio for further study:

W. J. Mencarow – A series of sermons that began in 2006 and number 117! Detailed with plenty of facts, tidbits, etc.

Ian Paisley – Nothing to really add. He is an old time firebrand preacher, take it or leave it.

Robert Caringola – Author of “The Present Reign of Jesus Christ” and “Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alternative.”
 
Upvote 0

JM

Augsburg Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,361
3,628
Canada
✟747,724.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
After reading this post, is there any wonder why Dispensationalist and Futurists argue against Historicism?

Their foundation is Roman!

THE REFORMATION RESURGENCE·TUESDAY, JUNE 13, 2017

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Here is the dictionary definition of the word Jesuit and Jesuitism BEFORE the dictionary was OWNED by the Jesuits:

JESUIT, n.

One of the society of Jesus, so called, founded by Ignatius Loyola; a society remarkable for their cunning in propagating their principles. (Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary).

JESUITISM, n. The arts, principles and practices of the Jesuits.

1. Cunning, deceit; hypocrisy; prevarication; deceptive practices to effect a purpose.
St. Paul said that 2 things MUST happen FIRST before the end of the world:
1. A falling away or apostasy from Apostolic Christianity.
2. The Antichrist or Man of Sin to be revealed.

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth (restrains) that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12).

ALL of the Reformers applied this prophecy to the PAPAL DYNASTY. Martin Luther said:
Oh Christ, my Lord, look down upon us and bring upon us the day of judgment, and destroy the brood of Satan at Rome. There sits the Man, of whom the Apostle Paul wrote that he would oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God — the Man of Sin, the son of perdition . . . What is the Temple of God? Is it stones and wood? Did not Paul say, The Temple of God is holy, which Temple ye are? To sit — what is it but to reign, to teach and to judge. Who from the beginning of the church has dared to call himself master of the whole church but the Pope alone. None of the saints, none of the heretics ever uttered so horrible a word of pride. (Luther's Works, Vol. 2. p. 281).

To the Reformers, the Man of Sin was synonymous with the Antichrist. Martin Luther also said:

Antichrist is the pope and the Turk together; a beast full of life must have a body and soul; the spirit or soul of antichrist is the pope, his flesh or body the Turk. The latter wastes and assails and persecutes God's church corporally; the former spiritually and corporally too, with hanging, burning, murdering. But, as in the apostle's time, the church had the victory over the Jews and Romans, so now will she keep the field firm and solid against the hypocrisy and idolatry of the pope, and the tyranny and devastations of the Turk and her other enemies. (Table Talk of Saint Martin Luther, p. 193).

This was the standard Protestant exposition of the Book of Revelation, and millions of Latin Church members were turning from Antichrist to Christ as they saw the clear fulfilment of Bible prophecy. Joshua the Messiah said:

And now I have told you before it comes to pass, that, WHEN it comes to pass, ye might believe (John 14:29).

This prophetic teaching (historicist) was playing havoc with the Latin Church. Millions were escaping and obeying the Lord's command to "come out of her" (Rev. 18:4).

The Catholic Counter Reformation - Futurism

Up to this point, Rome’s main method of attack had been largely frontal: openly burning Bibles and heretics. Yet this warfare only confirmed in the minds of Protestants the conviction that papal Rome was indeed the Beast power that would “make war with the saints” (Revelation 13:7). Therefore a new tactic was needed, something less obvious. The sought after solution was found in the Jesuit Order.

Eleven years earlier, on August 15, 1534, Ignatius Loyola founded a secret Catholic order called the Society of Jesus, also known as the Jesuits.

At the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church gave the Jesuits the specific assignment of bringing Protestantism back to the “Mother Church.” This was to be done not only through the Inquisition and through torture, but also through theology and deception.
Two Jesuits named Francisco de Ribera and Robert Bellarmine invented the system called FUTURISM.

Futurism places the coming of Antichrist just 7 years before the end of time.
The Christians were hindering his coming, and they will be raptured out before his appearance.
19148996_1513123602071684_8838364607787161267_n.jpg

Francisco de Ribera, S.J. (1537-1591).
Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation.

He then developed the doctrine of futurism. His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time. Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist.

In 1590 Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation to the end time rather than to the history of the church. Antichrist, he taught, would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and who would rebuild Jerusalem.

Ribera denied the Protestant Scriptural Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2) as seated in the church of God-asserted by Augustine, Jerome, Luther, and many reformers. He set on an infidel Antichrist, outside the church of God.

The result of [Ribera’s] work was a twisting and maligning of prophetic truth.
19105858_1513124068738304_4287248980751579035_n.jpg

Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, S.J. (1542-1621).
Following close behind Francisco Ribera was another brilliant Jesuit scholar, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine of Rome. Between 1581-1593, Cardinal Bellarmine agreed with Ribera in his work Polemic Lectures Concerning the Disputed points of the Christian Belief Against the Heretics of this Time.

The futurist teachings of Ribera were further popularized by an Italian cardinal and the most renowned Jesuit controversialists. His writings claimed that Paul, Daniel, and John had nothing whatsoever to say about the Papal power. The futurists’ school won general acceptance among Catholics. They were taught that antichrist was a single individual who would not rule until the very end of time.

Through the work of these two clever Jesuit scholars, Jesuit futurism was born.
The Pope and Caliph LOVE this fantasy because it blinds the believers to the PRESENT Antichrist!

According to the Futurist FANTASY:

1. Antichrist was one man . . . not a dynasty.
2. He would be an atheist or infidel.
3. He would not be revealed until 7 years before the end of time.
4. He would sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and make a covenant with the Jews.
5. He would call himself God etc., etc.
6. The Christians were hindering his appearance but they would be "caught up" or raptured to Heaven before his appearance—the "Left Behind" madness!!

The Spread of Futurism

For almost 300 years after the Council of Trent, Jesuit futurism remained largely within Catholicism, but the plan of the Jesuits was that Protestants would adopt this doctrine. This adoption process actually began in the early 1800s in England, and from there it spread to America.

The story of how this happened is both fascinating and tragic. Many individuals were genuine Christians but unknowingly became channels of error.

The Futurism of Ribera never posed a positive threat to Protestants worldwide for three centuries. It did stop the Reformation in Eastern Europe. However, largely, it was virtually confined to the Roman Church. But earlier in the nineteenth century it sprang forth with vehemence as it latched on to Protestants of the Established Church of England.

Key Players

Dr. Samuel Roffey Maitland (1792-1866), a lawyer and Bible scholar, became a librarian to the Archbishop of Canterbury. In 1826 he published a book attacking the Reformation and supporting Ribera’s idea of a future one-man Antichrist. For the next ten years, in tract after tract, he continued his anti-Reformation rhetoric. As a result of his zeal and strong attacks against the Reformation, the Protestantism of England—the very nation that produced the King James Bible in 1611—received a crushing blow.

After Maitland came James H. Todd, a professor of Hebrew at the University of Dublin. Todd accepted the futuristic ideas of Maitland, publishing his own supportive pamphlets and books.

Then came John Henry Newman (1801-1890), a member of the Church of England and a leader of the famous Oxford movement. In 1850, Newman wrote his Letter on Anglican Difficulties, revealing that one of his goals in the Oxford movement was to absorb “the various English denominations and parties” back into the Church of Rome. After publishing a pamphlet endorsing Todd’s futurism about a one-man Antichrist, Newman became a Roman Catholic, and later even a highly-honored cardinal.

Then came John Henry Newman (1801-1890), a member of the Church of England and a leader of the famous Oxford Movement (1833-1845). In 1850, Newman wrote his “Letter on Anglican Difficulties,” revealing that one of the goals in the Oxford Movement was to finally absorb “the various English denominations and parties” back into the Church of Rome. After publishing a pamphlet endorsing Todd’s futurism about a one-man Antichrist, Newman soon became a full Roman Catholic, and later even a highly honored Cardinal. Through the influence of Maitland, Todd, Newman, and others, a definite “Romeward movement was already arising, destined to sweep away the old Protestant landmarks, as with a flood.”

Then came the much-respected Scottish Presbyterian minister, Edward Irving (1792-1834), the acknowledged forerunner of both the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements. Irving pastored the large Chalcedonian Chapel in London with over 1,000 members. When Irving turned to the prophecies, he eventually accepted the one-man Antichrist idea of Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and Ribera, yet he went a step further. Somewhere around 1830, Edward Irving began to teach the unique idea of a two-phase return of Christ, the first phase being a secret rapture prior to the rise of the Antichrist. Where he got this idea is a matter of much dispute. Journalist Dave MacPherson believes Irving accepted it is a result of a prophetic revelation given to a young Scottish girl named Margaret McDonald. In any case, the fact is, Irving taught it!

Scholars and ministers spread dispensationalism across America in the 19th century. John Nelson Darby, “the father of dispensationalism,” was a founder of the Plymouth Brethren movement. His most influential contribution was his promotion of dispensationalism and the secret rapture.
19059312_1513159228734788_5126863863631165670_n.jpg

John Nelson Darby
Darby, born in London, made seven trips to North America between 1862 and 1877, throughout and after the Civil War. Many saw his message of Christ’s return as hope in a dark world. James Inglis published Darby’s ideas in his journal Waymarks in the Wilderness. Brothers Paul and Timothy Loizeaux, part of the Plymouth Brethren movement in the United States, also helped to distribute Darby’s interpretations of Scripture.

Darby greatly influenced a Presbyterian minister named Dr. James H. Brookes, who developed the Niagara Bible Conference that met every summer from 1875 to 1897. The Bible studies held there were devoured by many eager young students—one of which was Cyrus Ingerson Scofield. Even to this day, Scofield is famous for his Scofield Reference Bible, which has dispensationalist footnotes.
19030538_1513160405401337_4939856403925074698_n.jpg

Cyrus Ingerson Scofield
Scofield established the Philadelphia School of the Bible. Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer, a staff member, went on to become founder of Dallas Theological Seminary. He taught decades of theological students and pastors the dispensational point of view. One of those students was Hal Lindsey.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JM

Augsburg Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,361
3,628
Canada
✟747,724.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
The first book to really bring Futurism to the masses was a book entitled The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey and C.C. Carlson which appeared in 197O. That book has sold over 35 million copies and was translated into 54 languages.
19059142_1513143258736385_5790221324845794307_n.jpg

Hal Lindsey, father of modern "Bible" prophecy.
Hal Lindsey is known as the father of modern "Bible" prophecy. His famous Late Great Planet Earth sold over 35 million copies and spawned the billion dollar end-times industry, whose books and videos repeat his dispensational theme, and are patterned after his novel writing style. Lindsey actually is a Jesuit in disguise as 2 of his daughters attended Jesuit Gonzaga University.

To Lindsey, Antichrist is a superman who will conquer the world just 7 years before the end of time.
19060183_1513147385402639_4789166636467771113_n.jpg

C.C. Carlson
The mysterious C.C. Carlson, who was the ghostwriter for Lindsey's books, turns out to be a woman—and most probably a nun in disguise!!

When it became apparent that Futurism was the road that led to fame and riches, many jumped on this "Bible" prophecy bandwagon....two of the most famous false profits are
19105828_1513157162068328_9024998879291714974_n.jpg

Tim LaHaye
Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins who originated the Left Behind publishing empire.
These men are laughing all the way to the bank due to the phenomenal success of their Left Behind series. Most libraries in the U.S. have copies of their books . . . but fortunately they are listed under "Christian" FICTION.
19113701_1513157782068266_2950807671868761347_n.jpg

Jerry B. Jenkins
The theological foundation for the entire Left Behind series is the application of the “seven years” of Daniel 9:27 to a future period of Tribulation. Are you ready for this? Guess who was one of the very first scholars to slice Daniel’s 70th week away from the first 69 weeks, sliding it down to the end of time? It was Francisco Ribera! “Ribera’s primary apparatus was the seventy weeks. He taught that Daniel’s 70th week was still in the future. . . It was as though God put a giant rubber band on this Messianic time measure. Does this supposition sound familiar? This is exactly the scenario used by Hal Lindsey and a multitude of other current prophecy teachers.”

When most Christians look at the last 1,500 years, how much fulfilled prophecy do they see? None, zero, because almost everything is now being applied to a future time period after the Rapture. As we have seen, this GAP idea originated with the Jesuits, and its insertion into the majority of 21st century prophetic teaching is now blinding millions of hearts and eyes to what has gone before, and to what is happening right now inside the Church. “It is this GAP theory that permeates Futurism’s interpretation of all apocalyptic prophecy.” In love and in the Spirit of Jesus Christ, someone should publicly appeal to the major prophetic television ministries of today to re-evaluate their positions. Hopefully, like noble ships with a new command from their captain, they will yet change their course.

Jesuit Futurism has almost completely changed the beliefs of Protestant Historicism. “The proper eschatological term for the view most taught today is Futurism, which fuels the confusion of Dispensationalism. The futuristic school of Bible prophecy came from the Roman Catholic Church, specifically her Jesuit theologians. . . However the alternative has been believed for centuries.”

“It is a matter for deep regret that those who hold and advocate the Futurist system at the present day, Protestants as they are for the most part, are thus really playing into the hands of Rome, and helping to screen the Papacy from detection as the Antichrist.”

Who Had it Right?

Who had the right theology—those who were burned at the stake for Jesus Christ, or those who lit the fires? Who had the true Bible doctrine—the martyrs or their persecutors? Who had the correct interpretation of the Antichrist—those who died trusting in the blood of Christ, or those who shed the blood of God’s dear saints? Dear friend, Jesuit Futurism is now at war with the Protestant Reformation by denying its power-packed application of prophecy to the Vatican. “The futurist school of Bible prophecy was created for one reason, and one reason only: to counter the Protestant Reformation!” In fact, Jesuit Futurism is at war with the prophecies of the Word of God itself! And if that’s not enough, consider this. Jesuit Futurism originated with the Roman Catholic Church, which makes it the very doctrine of the Antichrist! And when Christian ministries and movies like A Thief in the Night, Apocalypse, Revelation, Tribulation, and Left Behind, proclaim an Antichrist who comes only after the Rapture, what are they really doing? I shudder to even say it. Are you ready for this? They are sincerely and yet unknowingly teaching the doctrine of the Antichrist!

He, who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Jeremiah Knight
“By the grace of God I am what I am….” 1 Cor 15:10.

The Reformation Resurgence

References
H. Grattan Guinness, Romanism and the Reformation,
Michael de Semlyen, All Roads Lead to Rome, Dorchester House Publications, Dorchester House, England, 1991
Robert Caringola, Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alternative. Abundant Life Ministries Reformed Press, 1991
George Eldon Ladd, The Blessed Hope: A Biblical Study of the Second Advent and the Rapture. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1956
Ralph Thompson, Champions of Christianity in Search of Truth
Robert Caringola, Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alternative
Ralph Woodrow, Great Prophecies of the Bible
H. Grattan Guinness, History Unveiling Prophecy or Time As an Interpreter, New York: Fleming H. Revell Co., 1905
Dave MacPherson, The Incredible Cover-Up: Exposing the Origins of Rapture Theories. Omega Publications, Medford Oregon, 1980
Robert Caringola, Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alternative
Joseph Tanner, Daniel and the Revelation: The Chart of Prophecy and Our Place in It, A Study of the Historical and Futurist Interpretation. London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1898
 
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Meester-Chung

Historicist
Oct 6, 2018
169
47
41
Toronto, Canada
✟18,141.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Others
many of these preachers and churches that preach pre-trip rapture futuristm are starting and Joining so called Ecumenical movements where they are uniting with papal rome to create a so called universal christian church. Kenneth Copeland is one of them. on tv(clips can be found on youtube) openly said to his congregation tat we are now catholics. TBN whose founder or one of the founders(can't remember his name) say he removed the word "Protestant" from is vocabulary.
 
Upvote 0

Meester-Chung

Historicist
Oct 6, 2018
169
47
41
Toronto, Canada
✟18,141.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Others

Published on Sep 16, 2015
As the pope visits America, Bible prophecy takes center stage. Who are the major end-time players? What is the significance of the pope’s visit to America? Be informed and get answers that will prepare you for the future!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian

Published on Sep 16, 2015
As the pope visits America, Bible prophecy takes center stage. Who are the major end-time players? What is the significance of the pope’s visit to America? Be informed and get answers that will prepare you for the future!
a documentary on the Jesuit infiltration of the U.S.A (Don't know the official name)

My goodness. Same song and dance........

Martin Luther identifies the Antichrist over 500 years ago!

The quote copied below is from one of Martin Luther's last books. It was titled: "A Prelude by Martin Luther on the Babylonian Captivity of the Church".
Page 536, chapter 3.

"Nevertheless, since few know this glory of baptism and the blessedness of Christian liberty, and cannot know them because of the tyranny of the pope, I for one will walk away from it all and redeem my conscience by bringing this charge against the pope and all his papists: Unless they will abolish their laws and traditions, and restore to Christ's churches their liberty and have it taught among them, they are guilty of all the souls that perish under this miserable captivity, and the papacy is truly the kingdom of Babylon, yes, the kingdom of the real Antichrist! For who is " the man of sin" and "the son of perdition" but he that with his doctrines and his laws increases sins and the perdition of souls in the Church, while he sits in the Church as if he were God? All this the papal tyranny has fulfilled, and more than fulfilled, these many centuries. It has extinguished faith, obscured the sacraments and oppressed the Gospel."
Tonks said:
I've always wondered why the SDAs were so obsessed with Catholicism. Of all the groups out there they are - by far - the ones that I find less concerned with actual preaching (unless it involves Sabbath worship) and more concerned about yelling about the Catholic Church.

The Pope as Anti-Christ is the confessional belief of several protestant denominations. In the past several hundred years or so, however, they've sort of gotten beyond that sticking point and have preached Christ as the physician of men...and have gotten on with the business of savlation.

I don't yet detect any sort of theological or doctrinal maturing out of the Adventist groups yet. Pretty sad, really.
CaDan said:

If the Pope is the Antichrist (and has been for a couple of centuries), doesn't that play havoc with Millerite eschatological timetables?
 
Upvote 0

Meester-Chung

Historicist
Oct 6, 2018
169
47
41
Toronto, Canada
✟18,141.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Others
The papacy today is no different from 500 years ago. Papal Rome today created societies like the Jesuits to counter the reformation and bring back the protestants back under papal rule. the SDAs are not the only ones identify the papacy as the antichrist system. Popes today no longer have armies today they use covert means to spread papal domination by the use of secret societies like the knight of malta, knights of columbus, opus die, and others. ever notice that jesuit trained Catholics like Kavanaugh who went to Jesuit ran private elite schools are getting high positions in government, the media, etc


"If the liberties of the American people are every destroyed, they will fall by the hand of the Roman Catholic cult's clergy." -General Lafayette under President George Washington

new.gif
"The Roman Catholic motto is ourselves alone for fellow Roman Catholics. We must defeat all heretics (non Catholics) at the ballot box. The holy father states that negative tactics are fatal. The demands of the holy father (the pope) are that the public services should be 100% Roman Catholic soon. Care must be taken that no suspicion may be raised when Roman Catholics are secretly given more government jobs than Protestants, Jews and other heretics." -Archbisop Gilroy

"There is, ere long, to be a state religion in this country, and that state religion is to be the Roman Catholic."

1st. The Roman Catholic is to wield his vote for the purpose of securing Catholic ascendancy in this country.

2nd. All legislation must be governed by the will of God, unerringly indicated by the pope.

3rd. EDUCATION must be controlled by Catholic Authorities, and under education the opinions of the individual and the utterances of the press are included, and many opinions are to be forbidden by the secular arm, under the authority of the Church, even to war and bloodshed." (Father Hecker, Catholic World, July 1870.)

"Undoubtedly it is the intention of the pope to possess this country. In this intention he is aided by the Jesuits, and all the Catholic prelates and priests." (Brownson's Review, May 1864)
 
Upvote 0

Meester-Chung

Historicist
Oct 6, 2018
169
47
41
Toronto, Canada
✟18,141.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Others


The Vatican's military arm – the Society of Jesus or the Jesuits – have a controversial history. They are renown for infiltrating through subtle but subversive means organizations that they see as a threat to their hegemony including Protestant and SDA churches and the US government. Why infiltrate these organizations?

To assimilate these organizations but ushering, slowly but surely, Catholic thought into these organizations.

The best example is the current US government. Notice all the Jesuit trained US officials who came out of Georgetown University or the training that current US President – Obama– has received. He unanimously passed the immigration amnesty law to welcome over 5 million Mexicans in the US. Mexicans are Catholics. Why? To ensure these new Catholic immigrants will have a greater voice come election time in 2016...should we have an election in the United States!

The Jesuits will stop at nothing to push forward their agenda. Notice their extreme oath that they take: Keep in mind that Pope Francis, who is a Jesuit, took this oath:


The Jesuit Oath of Induction is also recorded in the Congressional Record of the U.S. (House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913, pp. 3215-3216).

I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants' heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.

In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever! All of which, I, _, do swear by the Blessed Trinity and blessed Sacraments, which I am now to receive, to perform and on my part to keep inviolable; and do call all the heavenly and glorious host of heaven to witness the blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist, and witness the same further with my name written and with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and sealed in the face of this holy covenant." (He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
If anyone wants to comment and share ideas about the below, please go ahead!:

A short summary on the history of the Antichrist:

Warning: This is an extremely condensed summary of the fulfillment of Bible Prophecy about the Antichrist in history during the last 2000 years. There are way more details in Revelation that where perfectly accomplished in History that are not part of this summary.

For complete details, please refer to:

“Romanism and the Protestant reformation from the stand point of prophecy” – Henry Grattan Guinness

“Horae Apocalypticae” – Edward Bishop Elliot

Summary:

312AD – Constantine (a politician) declares Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire and the clay (the believers, Isaiah 64:8) mixes with the Iron (Rome) – Fulfilling Daniel 2:33. The great apostasy of II Tess. 2 starts for many compromise the faith for power and prestige.

476AD – Western Roman Empire falls – 10 kingdoms raise from that fall – the 10 fingers of clay and Iron of Daniel 2 and the 10 horns of Daniel 7:24, Revelation 13 and 17. The only leadership position left standing from the former empire is the Bishop of Rome, the little horn.

533AD – Justinian (a politician) declares the primacy of the Bishop of Rome – The little horn of Daniel 7:8 gains power.

538AD – After delivering the city of Rome from the Ostrogoth, Justinian decree is enforced in Rome – Antichrist (Papacy) is set in power at Rome. 2 Tess. 2:4 fulfilled. The Ostrogoth were the last one of the three horns (the other two where the Herulli and the Vandals) that the little horn would destroy in its rising according to the prophecy in Daniel 7:8.

1590AD – Pope become the False Prophet of Revelation 13 when they create a false interpretation of Daniel 9:27 (antichrist in a 7 year tribulation in the future) to hide the fact, preached by Protestants, that the history of the papacy fulfills everything that is told in the bible about the antichrist and therefore the papacy is the Antichrist foretold by Daniel, Paul and John.

1798AD – Napoleon arrests the Pope and seize his properties, inflicting the mortal wound to the first Beast (Europe dominated by the Pope) of Rev. 13. The 1st beast of revelation 13 reigns exactly 1260 years (42 prophetic months, 538 - 1798) as the prophecy states in Rev. 13:5.

1929AD – The mortal wound is healed and the Vatican becomes once again a country in which the king is the pope – the beast is healed but this time clothes itself like the Lamb Jesus (piety and humble) but continues to speak like the devil (false/against Christ doctrines).

1954AD – The False Prophet of Revelation 13(the Pope) starts creating the image of the previous beast – The European Union as foretold in Revelation 13

Present – Under the unified leadership of the Popery three powers - the economic powers of Europe (Dragon), the political powers of the United Europe (Beast) and the pope himself (False Prophet) - work to gather the world (Globalization) against God for Armageddon – the Final fight against God is on the works, fulfilling Revelation 16:13.
Did Constantine declare Christianity the state religion?

Constantine
The Edict of Milan went a step further than the earlier Edict of Toleration by Galerius in 311, returning confiscated Church property. This edict made the empire officially neutral with regard to religious worship; it neither made the traditional religions illegal nor made Christianity the state religion, as occurred later with the Edict of Thessalonica of 380. (wikipedia)
 
Upvote 0