Hey People :)

[Spicy McHaggis]

Well, if we have to "tone down" the posts seen as abbraisive, then in order to make it fair we have to "tone up" the passive posts, and we'll all eventually just revert back to:

"Read your Bible and pray"

Any other response would offend SOMEBODY.

 

[chanis]

I think that the bottom line here is people need to learn to value diversity...we all come various backgrounds and just because they don't agree with us doesn't mean we're right and they're wrong...I think we need to learn to have an open mind and think of the possibilities of others possibly being right...

 

[JeremiahJ]

Not much I can say but that I agree with the above two posts. iklepac has a good head on his shoulders. What is done out of love might not come across right to someone, but how are people to know how something comes across? On an online forum, when responding to topics created by people you've never met and don't know at all, you don't know how someone is going to react to something you say, and you don't know how to properly phrase it in order to get your point across in a tactful way to that specific person. The problem is that people sometimes take opinions as personal attacks, feel like their judged, or that others are making presuppositions about their situation. Typically, none of those is the case. Their giving their opinion on being content that, perhaps, has helped them, or they're basing it off of Biblical truth. Their opinion needs to be taken as an opinion.

 

[paulewog]

But throwing out the "dude get over it" responses means censoring a large portion of the member's who have a very valid stance.
But see, I said that we're not trying to do anything official. I'm not trying to censor anything out, we don't want to divide the forum up, etc.

BUT, if I said that in person, they'd get the non-verbal communication and not assume my post is an attack.
Very true.

So we need to realize that that non-verbal communication isn't there.

I'm not saying the staff should do anything official. I'm not really acting as a staff person right now, I'm just trying to "organize" the discussion.

What I'm suggesting is that the forum members, those that post here often and regularly, take it upon themselves to consciously try to encourage their brothers and sisters in Christ and take the time to respond, knowing that the non-verbal communication doesn't take place. I am NOT suggesting that the staff do anything official.

 

[paulewog]

Yes, opinion needs to be taken as opinion, this is only a forum.

I'm not worrying about people getting offended at this point.

But I'm worried that we don't care enough if someone gets offended because of the way we said it. If you believe something and you want to tell someone that, fine... I have no problem with it.

But the issue I see is that we're not carying enough to take the time to post it in such a way that it expresses Christian love, as well as an opinion. If it's the WAY you said something that is offensive, there's an issue. If it's because the message was offensive, that's very different. But there are encouraging and loving ways to say the same thing. "Use good English, stupid!" is an offensive way to say something. "You know, it might help if you used proper grammar and stuff " is not as offensive, but it's saying the same thing, is it not?

Yes, it requires more work, and yes, it requires thinking about how your post is going to come across in an online forum.

But hey, I would think taht since we are Christians and since we love our Christian brothers and sisters... I would think we would care more about hurting someone else because we said something the wrong way than simply wanting to express our opinion.

 

[ravendta]

Some of you are making WAY too big a thing out of this. You make it sound as though we're asking you to only give us specific answers. We're not asking you to change your message, we're asking that you use a little more courtesy in those answers.

Do you know why the Christian world is viewed by outsiders as being harsh and judgmental? Because too many Christians are so adhered to the words of the Bible that they don't realize how easily those words can be taken the WRONG WAY. There's something called 'tact' - and it's something many of you don't seem to have.

I see very little "love" on this board, and more and more harsh judgement. You make accusations about people and their relationships with God based merely on the fact that they've said they were lonely. Speaking as someone who's battled depression, anxiety, and suicidal desires for many years, the LAST thing that is going to help someone who's lonely is to make them feel WORSE than they already feel. If you truly understand the pain, as many of you claim, then SHOW that understanding in your responses. Don't tell them that they need to change their focus or try to judge their relationship with God as so many of you do. Don't try to be psychologists.

Try to be friends. After all, that's what many of us came here in search of, isn't it?

But no, you seem to think that your opinion is so much more important that it doesn't matter if anyone's feelings are hurt or not. You take the, "Sometimes the truth hurts" approach. Sorry, but that phrase is just as outdated as the old "Sticks and stones" saying.

I've seen VERY FEW people here, if ANY, that think their own desires are more important than the will of God. We've merely expressed our feelings in hopes of some encouragment. We know God's will is more important, and I haven't seen many who've said that they think God is ignoring their needs. We know he's got a plan and that he'll work everything out in time.

But that doesn't mean the pain isn't there.

We're not asking you to try to fix us. Just because we're lonely doesn't mean we need FIXING at all!

We just wanted to find some understanding friends.

And so far, the only message I've gotten is that I came to the wrong place for that.



*I know this post will likely get deleted, but the fact of the matter is that THIS is the heart of the dispute. Should this post get deleted, then the CF staff will be ignoring the true nature of this problem, and the only solution will be for those of us in pain to seek other websites where people are more open minded. Please don't take that as some kind of lame threat like, "Oh, you'd better help me or I'll LEAVE!" because I'm not saying it in that manner. I'm simply saying that, as a CHRISTIAN forum, we need to learn to love each other - and so far all we've been doing is pushing those in need of comfort further away.

 

[Spicy McHaggis]

Paul, not for nothing but I really respect you as a Mod around here.

I think what we're getting at is something I've actually been trying to do, which is steer the obviously abbrasive stuff into a manner of speaking that's more receivable.

Or, what I do is put "FYI I don't hate you" disclaimers on my posts.

 

[BeautyForAshes]

Yes, opinion needs to be taken as opinion, this is only a forum.

I'm not worrying about people getting offended at this point.

But I'm worried that we don't care enough if someone gets offended because of the way we said it. If you believe something and you want to tell someone that, fine... I have no problem with it.

But the issue I see is that we're not carying enough to take the time to post it in such a way that it expresses Christian love, as well as an opinion. If it's the WAY you said something that is offensive, there's an issue. If it's because the message was offensive, that's very different. But there are encouraging and loving ways to say the same thing. "Use good English, stupid!" is an offensive way to say something. "You know, it might help if you used proper grammar and stuff " is not as offensive, but it's saying the same thing, is it not?

Yes, it requires more work, and yes, it requires thinking about how your post is going to come across in an online forum.

But hey, I would think taht since we are Christians and since we love our Christian brothers and sisters... I would think we would care more about hurting someone else because we said something the wrong way than simply wanting to express our opinion.

Paule I totally agree with you on this.

I think that the majority of us on here do that - encourage one another. The thing is, we will never satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time, no matter how hard or well meaning you try.

No matter how nice things are said, with hugs and smilies - some people will still find something take offense at (look at some responses in this thread) - quite honestly at that point, all you can do is pray for them.

I guess we could try ego-stroking around here to see if that works, because it looks like that's what its coming too. (j/k - please don't do this. )

 

[chanis]

Paule I totally agree with you on this.

I think that the majority of us on here do that. The thing is, you can never satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time. No matter how nice things are said - some people will still find something take offense at and quite honestly at that point, all you can do is pray for them.

I totally agree people will never be satisfied, even when we try sometimes it's not enough...

 

[paulewog]

Edit: ** I don't like having a limit to my smilies. **

Yes, some people will find things to take offense at...

But it shouldn't be the way in which we say something, heh.

In response to raven, I see what he is talking about... at the same time, I would argue that sometimes the truth DOES hurt. For example, in the teen forum - I spend a lot of time there hehe - there are often posts where, from what the person said, the entire problem is that he is being entirely self-centered. And I will say that. I'll try to deliver it in as nice a way as I can, but I still feel like I ought to say exactly what I believe to be the problem, in as nice a way as I can. But it DOES hurt. And, from my own experience, I wish I had been hurt in that way when I was younger and too self-centered about certain things.

But I do agree in that often we, at the very least, put it in such a way that it comes off as an arrogant, know-it-all statement. Or, at least, we don't get the feeling that they are trying to help, but treating you sorta like a broken-down car, hehe.

My last comment [in this post, haha ] is.... don't judge a forum by its most abrasive people I think we tend to remember the hurtful things far more than the encouraging things, in general.

Oops, I lied.. this is my last comment in this post To people like raven who have expressed their concern, thank you for expressing it, I get upset when people just leave because they had something bothering them but never told someone So, if you have concerns like that, please pm a mod. You can pm me, though I'm not officially in the singles forum. pm SOMEBODY, hehe. My pm box is always open to visitors.

Although it might be full. But I try to keep that from happening =P

 

[joeman1]

Ok I just got here and saw this thread and Paulewog thank you for createing it. As many of you know I have been on the discontent side of the fence and now I am on the content side of the fence. I agree that sometimes we do need to word carfully our thoughts but I have to admit that everything that was said to me when I was ranting was said out of brotherly and sisterly love. I knew it at the time but I was just takeing my frustration of being lonly out on those who were trying to help me.

To you guys and gals that tried to help I sincerly apologize for the way I have reacted in the past. Do you want to know how I met the love of my life? I met her right here in these forums. I wasn't looking for her but I created a thread I am sure you all remember in which I was addressing why women seem to go for the jerks. I must say that every response I recieved in that thread lifted me up beyond measure. I went in looking to try and see both sides. Well I have to say that everyone posted very eloquently their points. To be honest the rift that I see developeing is that WE Yes I said WE as "Discontents" tend to take anything that is said opposite to our mindset as an all out attack on ourselves. WE need to calm down and accept others words as words of love because if you are like me when you look back you will see that they were truly written out of concern and love for you.

Now we all need to take control of our thoughts and lives. I think we need to try and not be threatened when someone says something different than our own mindset. The devil is haveing a hayday because he is getting the Lord's children to turn on eachother useing this issue. Lets come together and bind satan and throw him out. Together we can do it.

I do have a suggestion though. We all know that Celebate singles face different struggles than our non-celebate brothers and sisters. What if we create a thread designed to minister to those needs?

 

[ravendta]

In response to raven, I see what he is talking about... at the same time, I would argue that sometimes the truth DOES hurt. For example, in the teen forum - I spend a lot of time there hehe - there are often posts where, from what the person said, the entire problem is that he is being entirely self-centered. And I will say that. I'll try to deliver it in as nice a way as I can, but I still feel like I ought to say exactly what I believe to be the problem, in as nice a way as I can. But it DOES hurt. And, from my own experience, I wish I had been hurt in that way when I was younger and too self-centered about certain things.

Yes, but that all depends on the situation. One post is hardly enough to determine most people's true state of mind.

For example, in many cases, a person could be living a quite UNselfish life on the outside, yet be hampered by a lingering feeling of loneliness. So, in search of finding some comfort fo that pain, they come here and post something about that. From my experience in this forum, he'd be told that he needed to refocus his life on Christ instead of dwelling on his loneliness, but the fact is that OUTSIDE of this forum, he's doing just that. And THAT'S what I'm talking about.

People jump to conclusions about the lives of other posters and start trying to tell them to refocus their life in one way or another, when the truth is that they don't have NEARLY enough knowledge about his life to make such an assumption.

Then, when someone gets upset that improper conclusions are being made, they're told that they're only "looking for specific answers" or that they'll only be happy if they "hear what they wanna hear."

 

[HoosierCanuck]

I agree with Beauty For Ashes and Ikelpac. Some people will never be satisfied. When I post I TRY to consider what the other person MIGHT be feeling. However, since I don't actually KNOW that person I sometimes come across the wrong way. We all do it. It doesn't make us evil....just human. Some of us try the psychological approach to things because we can tell by a person's post that they are feeling a great deal of pain...whether due to loneliness or whatever (read some other forums...yikes!). The reason? Not because WE have all of the answers but because WE care and or have been in a similar situation or had a similar feeling. We are trying to be COMPASSIONATE, not condenscending. At least I'm not. Some may take it that way, and if you have....I'm sorry. In the real world I am nothing so why would I consider myself 'superior' here? I realize that many people feel lonely and need others. I occasionally feel that way too but I guess my background has trained me to think differently than most people. It's called DIVERSITY. I think it's been mentioned many times here.

...and then there are people who DO unfortunately come here just for kicks. I suppose they can be banned if it comes to that. ?!

I'm waiting for some people to call for my ban....only because I CARE.

 

[HoosierCanuck]

I think the boards in general seem to go through phases. Every once in awhile it seems you get some people on here who simply want to start trouble. I think I've encountered a couple lately (no names will be mentioned here) and I choose to ignore those. I made the mistake recently of responding and have had to ask God for forgiveness.

 

[ravendta]

I think the boards in general seem to go through phases. Every once in awhile it seems you get some people on here who simply want to start trouble. I think I've encountered a couple lately (no names will be mentioned here) and I choose to ignore those. I made the mistake recently of responding and have had to ask God for forgiveness.

I'm not an idiot - I know you're referring to me. There's been no one else here who's stepped up and defended themselves, though my "A Little Courtesy" post had a good number of people who thanked me for speaking up.

I'm not trying to start trouble, and it's insulting that you'd suggest that. I'm trying to stand up for myself, and yet people like you and BeautyforAshes keep making me out to be some kind of bad guy who's being controlled by the devil sent here to stir up conflict among God's children. You have no idea how terrible that makes me feel.

Yet, if your other posts are any indication, you don't care how it makes me feel.

So screw it, I'm leaving - AGAIN. Why in the world do I keep coming back here looking for help?

Enjoy your "peaceful" forum. I'm sorry my honesty screwed it up.

DTA

 

[HoosierCanuck]

Rav, how do you KNOW that I am referring specifically to YOU? Go to the thread on 'online bullying' in another forum and see what I am talking about. 'no names will be mentioned here' is written because it's not necessary to specifically name the person(s) I'm thinking of. One of them I KNOW is a female who sometimes posts here but I think she has a different identity than she did at that time of our 'informal war.' I just don't feel the need to start another one with her or you or anyone else. From now on if I post in this particular thread it will be to answer THE OP question...which I've already done so it's kind of pointless to come back. If it bothers you that much then PM me. This thread isn't supposed to be a debate session. Paul is asking a question.

 

[paulewog]

Edit: GRRR to the smilie limit! hehe.

Disclaimer: I'm not on staff right now, I'm just discussing an issue with fellow posters. =)

Yes, but that all depends on the situation. One post is hardly enough to determine most people's true state of mind.
Usually, yes. At times, however, the post is pretty blatant... at least in the teen forum. Teens have a knack for being blatantly honest at times

People jump to conclusions about the lives of other posters and start trying to tell them to refocus their life in one way or another, when the truth is that they don't have NEARLY enough knowledge about his life to make such an assumption.

Then, when someone gets upset that improper conclusions are being made, they're told that they're only "looking for specific answers" or that they'll only be happy if they "hear what they wanna hear."
Yes, that is quite true. It's hard, though. What DO they expect as an answer? It's a hard line to walk as a poster.

IMO, though, even if people judged too quickly, if it was obvious they actually did care... it is much easier to be taken the right way - i.e., that the person that replied and judged wrongly meant well, and was trying to help, and the original poster knows that and can explain. From my experience anyways, hehe.

I agree with Beauty For Ashes and Ikelpac. Some people will never be satisfied.
Yes, some won't. But that's not for us to decide most of the time. If we only post once in reply to someone, and they don't like it, we can't conclude that they will never be satisfied =)

When I post I TRY to consider what the other person MIGHT be feeling. However, since I don't actually KNOW that person I sometimes come across the wrong way. We all do it. It doesn't make us evil....just human.
Of course. And if we do make that mistake, we should try to make amends. If someone takes offense because something I said came across the wrong way, am I not responsible for apologizing for how I said something? I would sure think it'd be a nice thing to do. I'd do it to my friend in real life.

In the real world I am nothing so why would I consider myself 'superior' here?
Not pointing at you, but you'd actually be surprised at the amount of people that think they can do whatever they want online. Sorta like how people act in a car. People don't generally cut people off in grocery stores with their shopping carts, but my goodness, on the road it's a different story. Something about the anonymity and feeling of power.

It's called DIVERSITY. I think it's been mentioned many times here.
Diversity is great. But if your diverse views come off as offensive because of the way you said it, it doesn't matter that the opinion is diverse or different, does it? =)

...and then there are people who DO unfortunately come here just for kicks. I suppose they can be banned if it comes to that. ?!
We try to keep out the people that come here just to get people mad, yes. There are rules against that. Reporting people like that really helps though, as its hard for us to read all the threads

I'm waiting for some people to call for my ban....only because I CARE.
Pardon me for saying so... but since you did post it publically If you know some people have that much animosity towards you, can't you at least pm them and try to "make it up" or something like that? (you might've tried or whatever, but I'm just suggesting. )

Last thought for this post... I don't particularly like the occasional attitude that is shown, the "I don't care if you get offended, it's my opinion, deal with it." I'm not pointing the finger at ANYONE here, please realize that. However, I do see it now and then (I can't think off the top of my head, hence I'm not pointing my finger at someone I can't remember, hehe!), and it kinda bugs me. Sure, sometimes what someone needs to hear might hurt. But hurting and being offended are often two different things. If someone is offended, make it clear you did not mean to offend them. It might require being humble and not going "I didn't mean to offend you, but you really ARE being a self-centered pig" (exaggeration for emphasis) but rather stopping at "I'm sorry if I offended you, I don't mean to do that, I know how hard it can be" (or however you would phrase such a thing), which is hard for some of us with our pride (*preaching to himself most of all* =P)

(on that note, I realize some of this may seem somewhat antagonistic to some... it is not meant to be that way at all, and I honestly have no one in mind as I write these things, hehe)

 

[paulewog]

I do want a discussion on this, but cut it out if you can't post without anger. Be honest, but at least be in a non-upset mood when you post. Doesn't help matters if the discussion is done in anger, upstedness, bitterness, or what have you.

If you suspect someone is upset with you, pm them! And if you suspect someone is talking about you subtly, pm them!

/me gets tired of the "gossip" that accompanies much of the forum and would rather people just outright said it, heh.

/me runs away from the soapbox before he gets on it again... and decides to shave instead.

 

[Eagle_Wings]

I think Joeman's idea of creating something for those who feel called to celibacy and those who don't feel called is a great idea. The needs are very different and that is usually where I get my harsh repsonses from. I really don't think that someone who is called to celibacy can truly understand when someone who doesn't share that calling says "you know, I'm really stuggling with feeling pretty lonely right now, I know God's in control but I'm just not feeling it at the moment." To be honest, I don't know what I want to hear when I'm feeling that way, but I do know that I don't want to be preached at and I don't want to hear all the old, worn out cliches either. Sometimes it just helps to hear that someone else has been there, I'm not the only one who has ever felt this way. Hearing how that person got past it might help, it might not...what works for one person doesn't work for everyone. But someone who is called to celibacy isn't going to understand why we would struggle with it.

I do have to say that lately it seems the majority of the threads seem to be following the same path and it gets hard to be compassionate when everytime we turn around we're seeing the same thing. But I also agree with Paulewog (I think he's the one who said it) that if you can't say it nicely then don't say it. The threads wouldn't be responded to, they'd die out, and we'd get different topics going.

 

[covenantwmn]

Ok, this is an unpopular view. I wouldn't mind a split. I'm definitely "looking." I wouldn't mind a place where everyone else who's looking is there as well. No big deal, just sometimes you wanna be with like-minded folks and know what you'll find when you get there. As far as the "mature" singles, not for me, I know what I am chronologically, but wow, my interests are still much younger than that. Anywho, my 2 cents.