Here we go again...

[com7fy8]

Most states, Murder is killing with premeditation. Homicide might or might not amount to murder, depending on the killer's intentions.

This makes sense.

enough evidence to begin a criminal investigation.

"under investigation" > to me, this means the matter is . . . under investigation.

And if they need to know what was really going on inside a person's head . . . I find it interesting how in my understanding of American jury proceedings, they actually think strangers can figure out what is going on in somebody else's head. Ones have a way of not doing this, even with their own spouses and children; yet, they use total strangers to try people. Is this what is meant by being tried by "peers"? I'm not sure a stranger can really be a peer.

And here we have three actively involved officers, for a while, if I saw the video correctly. And there is the man who sort of got away from them, then got shot. May be I am not very able to know what really was going on inside each person's head.

Having a knife does not prove he intended to use it . . . if he ever even had it in his hand. It was found on the . . . where? > "floorboard" > here is a "doj" link >

https://www.doj.state.wi.us/news-releases/update-kenosha-officer-involved-shooting-0

It could have dropped there or been kept there. I could not see if he had a knife in his hand while moving around the car; it did not look like it, as if this is proof. If he had it in his hand while moving around the car, he could have been trying to ditch it from his hand so it could look like he was not carrying it > but this would confirm he was not trying to stab anyone, I would think.

Can you tell me where in the video he is being attacked and in imminent danger of being killed? I don’t think there is any footage of that.

In case he had a knife in his hand before walking around the automobile, he had time to hurt an officer while he was near them, plus he could have turned against the officer behind him. He didn't.

So, my only issue is I don't think he should be allowed to leave with children in the car. And if he had orders to not have children unsupervised with him, would it not be kidnapping to drive away with them? But . . . on the other hand . . . were they with him in the vehicle when he arrived? Someone came to that location who was not supposed to be there, according to the independent investigator's press statement. So, if he took the children while he was the one under court orders not to be at that location, that could be kidnapping . . . or not?

But shooting him was the wrong way to stop him; I can see that. So, if I were to be an officer and got to that point, after blowing my opportunity to stop him sooner . . . I dare consider I would risk myself by tackling him or closing the car door against him and pinning him until my partners got there.

But it has taken me a few days to think up how I could pin him with the door. So, this is why I had reason to say, no get someone else if you need an officer . . . not me lolololololololol

Jam the door on him, maybe grab his ankle which is down below, and maybe twist his leg so his knee is bent up under the door. The door could shield me from a knife, in case he really wanted to get me with it. And hope and pray for teamwork from there.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That was the second story. But since the video doesn't show him reaching for anything, that story fell apart too.

Evidently the investigators saw him bend down in the car. Just like I did.

 

[Sparagmos]

This makes sense.

"under investigation" > to me, this means the matter is . . . under investigation.

And if they need to know what was really going on inside a person's head . . . I find it interesting how in my understanding of American jury proceedings, they actually think strangers can figure out what is going on in somebody else's head. Ones have a way of not doing this, even with their own spouses and children; yet, they use total strangers to try people. Is this what is meant by being tried by "peers"? I'm not sure a stranger can really be a peer.

And here we have three actively involved officers, for a while, if I saw the video correctly. And there is the man who sort of got away from them, then got shot. May be I am not very able to know what really was going on inside each person's head.

Having a knife does not prove he intended to use it . . . if he ever even had it in his hand. It was found on the . . . where? > "floorboard" > here is a "doj" link >

https://www.doj.state.wi.us/news-releases/update-kenosha-officer-involved-shooting-0

It could have dropped there or been kept there. I could not see if he had a knife in his hand while moving around the car; it did not look like it, as if this is proof. If he had it in his hand while moving around the car, he could have been trying to ditch it from his hand so it could look like he was not carrying it > but this would confirm he was not trying to stab anyone, I would think.

In case he had a knife in his hand before walking around the automobile, he had time to hurt an officer while he was near them, plus he could have turned against the officer behind him. He didn't.

So, my only issue is I don't think he should be allowed to leave with children in the car. And if he had orders to not have children unsupervised with him, would it not be kidnapping to drive away with them? But . . . on the other hand . . . were they with him in the vehicle when he arrived? Someone came to that location who was not supposed to be there, according to the independent investigator's press statement. So, if he took the children while he was the one under court orders not to be at that location, that could be kidnapping . . . or not?

But shooting him was the wrong way to stop him; I can see that. So, if I were to be an officer and got to that point, after blowing my opportunity to stop him sooner . . . I dare consider I would risk myself by tackling him or closing the car door against him and pinning him until my partners got there.

But it has taken me a few days to think up how I could pin him with the door. So, this is why I had reason to say, no get someone else if you need an officer . . . not me lolololololololol

Jam the door on him, maybe grab his ankle which is down below, and maybe twist his leg so his knee is bent up under the door. The door could shield me from a knife, in case he really wanted to get me with it. And hope and pray for teamwork from there.

I was talking about Rittenhouse not Blake.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not until he was shot several times in the back. Then, as he slumped forward, his body hit the horn, which then sounded. That's not consistent with reaching for the floor, even as he slumped forward after being shot.

Nope that’s not what I saw or the investigators.

 

[Aldebaran]

Because due process is a basic right in our country and black people shouldn’t have to be more careful than white people when dealing with cops. Nevertheless, black parents do have that convo with their children. White people don't have to. And I love how you’re ignoring the times people were shot or killed when they weren’t resisting arrest or trying to take a weapon.

Just because I'm not focusing on them doesn't mean I ignore them.
And as you may know, plenty of white people get shot by cops for the same reasons as black people do. They just don't make the news as often because white lives aren't as politically newsworthy.

People have been killed while begging for their lives.

You mean like Daniel Shaver? Yeah, a white guy.

 

[Aldebaran]

I’ll stand for what is right and you and the fascists can label me a terrorist if you want. History is full of people who were doing what is right being denigrated by an authoritarian state.

If you think it's so "right", then take some videos of the fires and newly shut down businesses that are going away because of what people like you are doing, and then show them to your kids when they grow up so they'll know why they had to grow up in poverty. Then explain to them how you were so "right".

 

[Aldebaran]

That’s a tiny fraction of the violence delivered by cops. Of course I’m not going to focus on that. It is nothing compared to violence ordered and carried out by our government. These people are supposed to protect us.

Yeah, and now they're standing back and doing nothing while ordinary citizens have to arm themselves and challenge the terrorists in the streets. So you're correct in your implication that they aren't doing what their job of protecting us.

 

[Aldebaran]

So far, no estimates. Finish up and show us billions.



Right now, we're testing your assumption that the riots (which police say includes right wing vandalism and violence) caused billions in damage. You've been asked twice to support your assumption.

Do you have anything at all to support it?

Ironic how you make a claim without evidence, and then follow it up with asking me for evidence.

 

[Aldebaran]

If there had not been an attempted execution of a fleeing suspect, that violence would not have happened. It it justified? No more than that attempted execution. But this is human nature at its worst. Unwarranted violence will lead to more unwarranted violence. The cop who unloaded his weapon into the back of that fleeing suspect, just got some more victims.

Jacob Blake was going for a knife in his vehicle. The cops had every right to defend themselves after they had told him to stop, and then Blake went for the knife.

DOJ: Jacob Blake told police he had a knife; name of officer released

Jacob Blake had knife in car in Kenosha shooting

 

[Aldebaran]

Right wing militias again initiate violence, shooting several people in Kenosha.

A Facebook livestream from Tuesday night shows a group of young men including the suspected shooter with large guns in the area of the unrest, while a Facebook group calling itself the Kenosha Guard posted an event, which has since been taken down, calling on its 3,000 members to help defend the city: “Any patriots willing to take up arms and defend out (sic) City tonight from the evil thugs?”
17-Year-Old Arrested In Illinois For Kenosha Shooting Amid Vigilante Militia Rumors

Rumor has it, the shooter walked up to police after shooting people, and they left him alone. Only after he went home to Illinois did anyone bother to arrest him.

The person identified as the shooter was actually there to render medical aid to people who were injured. It was only after certain rioters attacked him that he ended up having to defend himself. Tracking the Suspect in the Fatal Kenosha Shootings

 

[Aldebaran]

Police officers have done this. Would the victim have been justified in shooting the police officers, because some of them have killed members of their family?

You're using a "whataboutism" to ignore and divert attention away from the actions of someone who was in the process of a domestic dispute, and then ignored officers' commands after being tasered, and then attempted to retrieve a knife from his vehicle.

 

[Aldebaran]

That's Breitbart. If you go into the sewers, you're going to see some rats.

Someone once said that about Baltimore, and were referred to as racist because rats are somehow sacred to certain people's communities.

 

[Sanoy]

Can you tell me where in the video he is being attacked and in imminent danger of being killed? I don’t think there is any footage of that.

PMing you the video for safety. It will show a man with a red shirt charge him and get shot, then the shooting on the street. He is the same person who was harassing him all day and calling him the N word. This is not edited news video, it is the raw incident and it is graphic.

 

[Sanoy]

Murder of whom, are you talking about????

Homicide is murder.

No one in the video of Jacob's situation was killed; so there can't be a murder shown, there.

If he were to die, the killing could be called spur of the moment . . . therefore not premeditated.

On the other hand, if the officer has been premeditating racist murderous stuff in his mind . . . what would that mean, jurisprudently?

I am talking about Kyle Rittenhouse, not Jacob Blake. It is an incident that occurred during the resulting riots.

 

[Sanoy]

Nope. He was arrested for first-degree homicide. Police aren't allowed to arrest people for being suspicious. They can only arrest people on probable cause, a legal standard much higher than suspicion.

I didn't say he was arrested for being suspicious did I? Lets not play semantics. He is arrested ON suspicion of first degree murder. And that is just the initial complaint that was filed, not what may actually be the charge when it goes to court. After the shooting he went to the cops with his hands up. After seeing that they did not arrest him, being only 17, he went home. The police reported that at the time they did not know who the shooter was. It was then reported to the police what happened and they arrested him based on the information they received.

 

[Vanellus]

Is anyone speculating that these shootings are a deliberate ploy by Trump supporting police officers to incite riots and enable the Republicans to divert from covid19 deaths?

Too cynical you might say but after arms for hostages and sabotaging the Vietnam peace process to gain electoral advantage ...

edit: I don't mean some kind of deep plot by Trump and his team.Rather police officers making the connection: 1. Shoot black person 2. Incite riots 3. Something for Trump to use for the fear and law and order rhetoric.

 

[BNR32FAN]

One thing that really gets me about this whole situation is the police could’ve and should’ve released the information about the knife being in the floor of the car as soon as the media got ahold of the video. This could’ve diffused the situation with protesters and prevented the riots. Obviously they knew about the existence of the knife the day it happened and not sharing that information led to a lot of people getting the wrong idea and acting out in hysteria. Especially due to the recent sensitive nature of this type of tragedy. I really think it was irresponsible of the police to withhold this evidence.

 

[Sanoy]

Is anyone speculating that these shootings are a deliberate ploy by Trump supporting police officers to incite riots and enable the Republicans to divert from covid19 deaths?

Too cynical you might say but after arms for hostages and sabotaging the Vietnam peace process to gain electoral advantage ...

Do you mean besides just now?

 

[The Barbarian]

I didn't say he was arrested for being suspicious did I?

The charge was first-degree homicide. It requires more than suspicion. It requires probable cause or the arrest is not legal. Lets not play semantics. He was arrested on a charge of first degree homicide.[/quote]

And that is just the initial complaint that was filed, not what may actually be the charge when it goes to court.

An astute lawyer could get the charges reduced. After all, he only did it once.. er twice. And tried a third time, unsuccessfully.

 

[Sanoy]

One thing that really gets me about this whole situation is the police could’ve and should’ve released the information about the knife being in the floor of the car as soon as the media got ahold of the video. This could’ve diffused the situation with protesters and prevented the riots. Obviously they knew about the existence of the knife the day it happened and not sharing that information led to a lot of people getting the wrong idea and acting out in hysteria. Especially due to the recent sensitive nature of this type of tragedy. I really think it was irresponsible of the police to withhold this evidence.

Me too. Though it would seem after today that even knowing the information is insufficient to alter the trajectory of how people have learned to see and perceive the world.